Unexpected Surprise: PMW-200 Audio!

[Zoran Vincic]

Paul, the built in mic on the EX1 is crap, I suppose that they didn't put anything better on the PMW200.

It will distort and sound awful in high SPL situations (loud live band) and there's nothing you can do about it except to use a quality external microphone.

[Paul Gallagher]

Thanks Zoran lol I am starting to think its a bit crap myself, new camera and new technique I guess.
I always use wireless G2's and a shotgun mic on my two main cameras but I've never had to do this for bands. I dont like the feed from their mixer desks as its alway very flat and varies on every song, what type of mic have you had success using for the bands?

[Kevin Lewis]

Paul I have been doing reseach for about the last month regarding the purchase of a new camera. Everything leads me right back to the PMW 200.Hows you experience been with this camera, particulary its low light capeabilities and auto focus functions. From what i've seen online, I have to assume that the picture quality is great. Also, does anyone know if there is somewhere I can download sample clips from?

[Jerry Porter]

Hey Kevin, I know you didn't ask me, but I have a 200 as well and an EX3 also. The low light function is a little better than the 3 due to it's not as noisy even at +9 gain. The zoom controller is LIGHT years better and the auto focus is as expected, good, but I still choose not to use it most of the time. My biggest gripe is that LCD is very hard to see in daylight (need to get something for it) and the other viewfinder is a total POS. All in all I really like it and very happy with the purchase.

[Zoran Vincic]

Paul,

when I'm shooting live bands I use a Rode NT5 on my cam. That little inexpensive puppy takes more than 140dB before it clips, no problem for live music.

[Kevin Lewis]

Thanks for the input Jerry, anyone else?

[James Kuhn]

Kevin...if I read your original question correctly, you're still interested in the 'audio' performance, not the low-light capability of the PMW-200.

You might want to enter the Audioset>Menu and consider 'INT MIC Level' and 'Limiter Mode' adjustments for control of high SPL.

Regards,

J.

[Paul Gallagher]

Originally Posted by Kevin Lewis

Paul I have been doing reseach for about the last month regarding the purchase of a new camera. Everything leads me right back to the PMW 200.Hows you experience been with this camera, particulary its low light capeabilities and auto focus functions. From what i've seen online, I have to assume that the picture quality is great. Also, does anyone know if there is somewhere I can download sample clips from?

Hi Kevin, I dont own the PMW200, its the PMW150/160 I bought. The camera is the same from the lens back as the 200 without the 1/2 inch chips. Compared to low light on my EX1R, I put them side by side outside and got an exposure on -3 gain and no ND filters, the EX1r was at F11 and the PMW150 was at F5.6 so the low light difference is massive. As said above the screen on it for outside is terrible, the colours always look way of and the same in some indoor situations but when played back on the TV the picture is perfect and super sharp, I am using one of Doug's PP setting.

[Paul Gallagher]

Originally Posted by James Kuhn

Kevin...if I read your original question correctly, you're still interested in the 'audio' performance, not the low-light capability of the PMW-200.

You might want to enter the Audioset>Menu and consider 'INT MIC Level' and 'Limiter Mode' adjustments for control of high SPL.

Regards,

J.

Hi James, could you shed any light on how these settings effect the control of high SPL?

I turned my INT MIC Level down to -12 and its still clipping, would the limiter help that bit and if yes, from your experience what works best?

[Paul Gallagher]

Originally Posted by Zoran Vincic

Paul,

when I'm shooting live bands I use a Rode NT5 on my cam. That little inexpensive puppy takes more than 140dB before it clips, no problem for live music.

If I cant get any better sound with these mic settings I will have to buy one of these Zoran.

Are they a directional mic and need mounted on a stand of the camera facing the band or will they work just fine mounted on the mic holder on the camera? Also are you getting away with using the auto levels or is it best kept on manual?

[Zoran Vincic]

They have a standard cardioid pattern. I keep one on my cam all the time mounted in a mic holder.
You'll need some rubber though to increase the diameter of the mic as the holder is slightly wider.

Also the mic is very sensitive and will pickup any handling noise. If you work in quiet enviroments and expect clean audio from a on camera mic then get a shockmount that you can mount to your cam either on a coldshoue or in the mic holder.

Oh, the mic also has a very nice bass response but it will drive the cam limiter crazy (or clip abruptly if you keep the limiter off) in some situations. I strongly suggest keeping the low cut (or windfilter how it's called in EX1) engaged when you don't film live music and don't need that bass response.

Levels are manual, always.

[James Kuhn]

Kevin...the 'Limiter Mode', restricts the amount of audio signal ingested into the camera based upon the threshold you set. The amount of 'Limiter' dialed-in will keep the audio signal from over driving (in theory).

Presuming you have the camera already set to the correct 'Reference Level' of -20dB, you can adjust the 'Limiter' in the 'Menu>Audio Set' and watch the results via the 'Status Screen' VU Meters to determine the effect. The down-side, if you dial-in too much, your recording will kind of 'splat' and also sound bad. I'm sure there are other, more knowledgeable folks who will chime-in with a more technical answer.

I don't have a lot of experience recording in high-SPL environments with just the on-board 'Internal Mic' and an on-board Shotgun. If, I were going to try and capture a good recording of a loud musical group live and sync it with my camera and presuming the soundboard feed was not possible, I'd bring my Sound Devices SD302 Mixer, AKG C414XLS matched Impedance Stereo Mics and a tall Mic stand. That setup would get me a 'good' recording, not the best, mind you, but good. Unfortunately, you will be limited (pun intended) in your movement using a Mixer and Mic Stand.

Regards,

J.

[Zoran Vincic]

James,

if the mic itself is clipping (which is the case with EX1) then no limiter in this world can help there.

[James Kuhn]

Zoran...Yes. Unfortunately, your correct. If, the MIC isn't up to a high-SPL environment, no 'Limiter' will help. I don't know what the 'specs' are for the built-in MIC.

I just thought the OP needed to exhaust the possibilities before going out and spending more money. Hence, my 'prefered solution' Mixer and good Microphones. : )

Best regards,

J.

[Paul Gallagher]

Aorangi is probably right and he seems to have done his homework on this scenario, just for the sake of trying, I'll give the limiter a try at Saturdays wedding and if it's still not right I'll have to buy this wee rode to do the job.