soft picture and blown out at DVinfo.net

Terry Dennis · January 27th, 2016, 06:16 AM

done a few indoor concerts for friends Gigs etc
bright lights and dim venue

first of all the picture is not very sharp
and when say a red light was spotted on the singer was blown out to a red blob.

bear in mind i used a xa20 last year no problems same venue and lighting

something in paint i think but looks a bit complex

been asking on many forums but no replies

Dave Sperling · January 27th, 2016, 08:36 AM

You're not specific about camera or settings...
However,
one problem that's become fairly serious in live venue shooting is that many of the older (tungsten) lighting units are being replaced by LED units - and many of these feature an exceptionally low CRI (color rendering index) -- and a lot of frequencies that the cameras don't like -- meaning that they produce a soft image. I was working on a music documentary recently for which we were shooting in a lot of small clubs. The gaffer would look at the lights and sometimes say 'oh yeah, that one has a CRI of 35...' (for normal shooting I expect a CRI of at least 93 out of 100). So.. we would aim those lights down onto the audience and light the band with Arri 300's (tungsten lights.)
In general I seem to have the most trouble with the deep blue LEDs, but also find the pink ones make for a soft image.
Someone on another thread suggested that they got the best results turning their picture profiles off in the cameras, but I haven't been able to test this hypothesis (and I normally like the roll off I get from the hypergammas.)
So next time you're shooting a band, do a test during their sound check and adjust things as necessary. Often I've found that in uncontrolled situations I can add a couple of diva200's as footlights along the front edge of the stage, and this smooths things out a bit and sometimes takes the curse out of the LEDs.

Terry Dennis · January 27th, 2016, 08:50 AM

very interesting as reds blues are really blown out don't think its led just very over saturated
so bad now 3 venues rejected the footage no matter what i do always the same

Donald McPherson · January 27th, 2016, 10:41 AM

Private example.

Chris Harding · January 27th, 2016, 11:44 PM

When I still had my Sony's I found that any backlit situation (brides always seem to want to get married with water/sky or a sunset behind them) resulted in very soft footage! I have no idea why ..it was almost as if I was out of focus even though at one I went to the trouble of using a tape measure to make sure I was perfectly in focus. I think was happens too is that with tiny apertures the image starts to degrade quite badly so maybe that's what I was seeing ??? Try a shot with the lights behind you in the same venue and compare the clips and see if it's the lights giving you the issue???

I would be interested to know the results !!

Paul Anderegg · January 30th, 2016, 11:29 PM

I shoot a lot of ENG with RED LED police and fire emergency flashing lights, and the intensity at that wavelength does nasty things to the images! My JVC ProHD cameras cannot be focussed in these lighting conditions, even if I iris down, and pretty shots like faces being flashed by emergency lights become impossible. Sony is much better, but still hard to stay sharp. Try turning the SATURATION down all the way next time, just to test if the actual red wavelength on the sensor is the problem, and not an overabundance of that color. If it is still very soft, then there is nothing you can do, as that wavelength of light is all your sensor has to play with, and I believe GREEN is the primary for most luma resolution?

Paul

Terry Dennis · February 1st, 2016, 11:34 PM

all sorted now i think

George Palmier · February 5th, 2016, 01:34 PM

Can you please share with us what settings sorted out your problem?

Terry Dennis · February 5th, 2016, 01:55 PM

yes as I had so many little answers found this website and played for 3 days solid where i went wrong was quite often its actually minus to sharpen
Camera Setup | XDCAM-USER.COM
sold it now anyway shame i ruined 3 shoots with bad settings
now its sharp without the colours blown out

January 27th, 2016, 06:16 AM	#1
Terry Dennis Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: uk Posts: 27	soft picture and blown out done a few indoor concerts for friends Gigs etc bright lights and dim venue first of all the picture is not very sharp and when say a red light was spotted on the singer was blown out to a red blob. bear in mind i used a xa20 last year no problems same venue and lighting something in paint i think but looks a bit complex been asking on many forums but no replies

January 27th, 2016, 08:36 AM	#2
Dave Sperling Major Player Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Tinton Falls, NJ Posts: 780	Re: soft picture and blown out You're not specific about camera or settings... However, one problem that's become fairly serious in live venue shooting is that many of the older (tungsten) lighting units are being replaced by LED units - and many of these feature an exceptionally low CRI (color rendering index) -- and a lot of frequencies that the cameras don't like -- meaning that they produce a soft image. I was working on a music documentary recently for which we were shooting in a lot of small clubs. The gaffer would look at the lights and sometimes say 'oh yeah, that one has a CRI of 35...' (for normal shooting I expect a CRI of at least 93 out of 100). So.. we would aim those lights down onto the audience and light the band with Arri 300's (tungsten lights.) In general I seem to have the most trouble with the deep blue LEDs, but also find the pink ones make for a soft image. Someone on another thread suggested that they got the best results turning their picture profiles off in the cameras, but I haven't been able to test this hypothesis (and I normally like the roll off I get from the hypergammas.) So next time you're shooting a band, do a test during their sound check and adjust things as necessary. Often I've found that in uncontrolled situations I can add a couple of diva200's as footlights along the front edge of the stage, and this smooths things out a bit and sometimes takes the curse out of the LEDs.

January 27th, 2016, 08:50 AM	#3
Terry Dennis Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: uk Posts: 27	Re: soft picture and blown out very interesting as reds blues are really blown out don't think its led just very over saturated so bad now 3 venues rejected the footage no matter what i do always the same Last edited by Terry Dennis; January 27th, 2016 at 01:28 PM.

January 27th, 2016, 10:41 AM	#4
Donald McPherson Major Player Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Aberdeen Scotland Posts: 815	Re: soft picture and blown out Private example.

January 27th, 2016, 11:44 PM	#5
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: soft picture and blown out When I still had my Sony's I found that any backlit situation (brides always seem to want to get married with water/sky or a sunset behind them) resulted in very soft footage! I have no idea why ..it was almost as if I was out of focus even though at one I went to the trouble of using a tape measure to make sure I was perfectly in focus. I think was happens too is that with tiny apertures the image starts to degrade quite badly so maybe that's what I was seeing ??? Try a shot with the lights behind you in the same venue and compare the clips and see if it's the lights giving you the issue??? I would be interested to know the results !!

January 30th, 2016, 11:29 PM	#6
Paul Anderegg Trustee Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: San Diego, Califonia Posts: 1,559	Re: soft picture and blown out I shoot a lot of ENG with RED LED police and fire emergency flashing lights, and the intensity at that wavelength does nasty things to the images! My JVC ProHD cameras cannot be focussed in these lighting conditions, even if I iris down, and pretty shots like faces being flashed by emergency lights become impossible. Sony is much better, but still hard to stay sharp. Try turning the SATURATION down all the way next time, just to test if the actual red wavelength on the sensor is the problem, and not an overabundance of that color. If it is still very soft, then there is nothing you can do, as that wavelength of light is all your sensor has to play with, and I believe GREEN is the primary for most luma resolution? Paul

February 1st, 2016, 11:34 PM	#7
Terry Dennis Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: uk Posts: 27	Re: soft picture and blown out all sorted now i think

February 5th, 2016, 01:34 PM	#8
George Palmier Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Malta Posts: 96	Re: soft picture and blown out Can you please share with us what settings sorted out your problem?

February 5th, 2016, 01:55 PM	#9
Terry Dennis Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: uk Posts: 27	Re: soft picture and blown out yes as I had so many little answers found this website and played for 3 days solid where i went wrong was quite often its actually minus to sharpen Camera Setup \| XDCAM-USER.COM sold it now anyway shame i ruined 3 shoots with bad settings now its sharp without the colours blown out