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Sony XDCAM EX Pro Handhelds
Sony PXW-Z280, Z190, X180 etc. (going back to EX3 & EX1) recording to SxS flash memory.

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Old October 27th, 2018, 08:02 AM   #31
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Re: Sony Z190 - Impossible Huge Flaw?

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Originally Posted by Noa Put View Post
That means you got lucky, just like I have been untill now. There are enough reports from users that have had issues with corrupt data on recommended media, just follow some facebook groups and there is plenty of horrorstories that are told.
I'll raise my hand as someone who hasn't always been so lucky. I've personally experienced failures with SD, XQD and most recently a cFast card. Luckily I've never had a failure on an SxS card. Whenever I'm using a camera that allows dual recording I do so if possible (and if we have enough cards.)

Noa also makes a good point about the potential camera lock-up. With my most recent cFast card failure, we dodged a bullet because the card failed only a couple of minutes into the first take on the card - it was in a C300Mkii - and the camera locked up completely - requiring us to pull power to get the camera to reset. Luckily we were doing green screen interviews and the failure was in the second camera angle, but we were unable to salvage anything from that card. Interestingly enough the client had requested dual record - but the production company providing the gear hadn't provided us with enough cards for the day to be able to do that.

But often failures mean just not having the footage. A couple of years back I had an XQD card failure (FS7 / Sony XQD card) where we lost all of our establishing b-roll shots of a huge banner mounted on the front of the NY Stock Exchange building (for a company that went public that morning) when the XQD card failed later that afternoon. It was sent to Sony, who were unable to recover anything from the card. Shortly after that the production company bought Shoguns to go out with each of their FS7's.

Experiences like these have made me a big fan of dual recording, by whatever means available!
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Old October 27th, 2018, 10:47 AM   #32
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Re: Sony Z190 - Impossible Huge Flaw?

I'm not a shooter with a long list of impressive credits but I like to think I do a respectable job, that I'm conscientious and work hard to give people what they ask of me. One of the very few times that I've filmed someone with household name recognition was the one time I had a card failure. Fortunately I had a second camera running and I was able to cover the shot, not in an ideal way, but "good enough". I've had my eye on the Z190 but I will never buy another camera that doesn't have full dual card recording.

Doug, may your continued good luck never let you down, but do know that thats what it is, even when using the best cards available.
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Old October 27th, 2018, 06:41 PM   #33
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Re: Sony Z190 - Impossible Huge Flaw?

You realize, of course, that you have just doomed me to have a card failure. Or perhaps I have done it to myself with my cavalier attitude in my postings. Either way, I am preparing for the inevitable disaster that must be waiting for me soon. Karma, baby, karma.
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Old October 27th, 2018, 07:30 PM   #34
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Re: Sony Z190 - Impossible Huge Flaw?

Yes Doug,
You lead a charmed existence. But my impression has been that most of the time you are likely to be your own client and your shoots don't require either large union crews or talent salaries in the 5 figures a day range. So if there's a tech issue it doesn't become your head on a platter.
Having dealt with various 'loss' issues over the years, I'd just prefer to have a viable backup whenever possible. And I'm probably not the only guy you know who routinely brings 3 or 4 cameras to a 2-camera shoot...
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Old October 27th, 2018, 10:20 PM   #35
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Re: Sony Z190 - Impossible Huge Flaw?

just popping back to double up on the suggestion of using an external recorder.

IF, you're so concerned, worried, etc., then dual recording cards aren't much use if the camera stops recording to both cards if there is a fault. better yet invest in a ninja or whatever external recorder rocks your boat. damn sigh fast in transferring, etc.,

that said, in almost 10 years of extensively shooting hdv then hd to card (on various sony camcorders), i've never had a failure either. sandisk or sony media only. i do have some other (known) brands but only use them in my dslr's - with no failures either.

chris, will look forward to seeing the doco as and when released - yeah, funding for anything that isn't pork barrelling is fast disappearing...
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Old October 28th, 2018, 04:02 AM   #36
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Re: Sony Z190 - Impossible Huge Flaw?

Dave, how many of those shoots that you allude to are being done in 4K?
BTW, are you really making two backup copies each of two 4K files from multiple cameras on your shoots? The data load must be massive.
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Last edited by Doug Jensen; October 28th, 2018 at 04:43 AM.
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Old October 28th, 2018, 09:36 PM   #37
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Re: Sony Z190 - Impossible Huge Flaw?

Hi Doug,
Been shooting more 4k lately, so yes, quite a bit of transfer time is spent on data. Will often have two computers with us on set for data transfers. We'll usually start doing transfers around 11am, and continue throughout the day - but try hard not to do any card erasing/re-using during the day.
Normally we don't copy the 'dual-recorded' second card - it's just recorded in case there's an obvious card failure on the primary card, and then ideally held for a bit longer before erasing (if possible). But everything that's shot does go to at least two separate drives before leaving the location.
My last couple of card failures - cFast and XQD - have been with 4k footage, but my feeling is that the cards would have experienced similar failures at 1080 as well, since in neither case did it seem to be a problem based on data transfer speed.
My earlier SD card failures were at 1080, and thankfully have had no issues to date with newer UHSii SD cards.
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Old October 28th, 2018, 09:44 PM   #38
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Re: Sony Z190 - Impossible Huge Flaw?

Where did you purchase those cFast and XQD cards that you experienced failure with? What brand?
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Old October 29th, 2018, 08:25 AM   #39
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Re: Sony Z190 - Impossible Huge Flaw?

Gary --
In both of those cases the cards were owned by the production companies that owned the cameras.
Both of the production companies tend to buy media and accessories from B&H and Adorama, though I can't be sure of where the specific cards were purchased (and because they own numerous cards, I don't know if they could necessarily trace them back.)
The cFast card was a 256GB Lexar.
The XQD was definitely a Sony (it was sent to them for attempted recovery) - I think it was a 128 G-series card.

I think the point I've been making is not that one or another company makes cards that are likely to fail -- because that's not something I believe. My feeling is that in the same way we say 'don't ask whether a hard drive will fail - but when' and thus take precautions accordingly, memory cards may fail as well, though just not as frequently. So it makes sense to be able to record a 'simultaneous backup' copy whenever possible. So dual record is a nice feature to have on a camera, particularly smaller cameras where you don't want to be encumbered by the size/weight/power requirements of an external recorder.
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Old October 29th, 2018, 08:38 AM   #40
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Re: Sony Z190 - Impossible Huge Flaw?

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Originally Posted by Dave Sperling View Post
The cFast card was a 256GB Lexar.
Lexar cards and the C300 Mark II generally don't mix, especially if the card in question was a 3400x, not a certified 3500x. Every single cFast corruption issue I have ever heard of (outside of noname brands), was the Lexar 3400x with the C300 Mark II.
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