60p resolution hit? at DVinfo.net

Daniel Doherty · February 27th, 2011, 11:09 AM

On the Sony product page it states that the resolution for recording 60p (59.94) is 1440 x 1080. Is this normal?

Phil Lee · February 27th, 2011, 11:46 AM

Hi

Not normal, other camcorders manage 1920x1080 just fine at 50p/60p.

Just a restriction imposed by the hardware I expect.

Regards

Phil

Bob Willis · February 27th, 2011, 11:49 AM

There has always been some kind of resolution trade off for 60p with Sony and Panasonic cameras. Depending on the camera each would handle the resolution change in a different manner. Many would use the 1280x720 resolution for 60p. Some would compromise the codec rate.

So yes this is normal or common.

Andrew Stone · February 27th, 2011, 04:20 PM

I assume this is after a camera is upgraded with the firmware to be put out in April (or thereabouts) but is this for in camera recording or is this to the 10bit 444 recorder that Sony is putting out.

I recall that 60p was to be at full HD raster of 1920 by 1080 with the 10bit/444 recorder not the squished aspect ratio they used for HDV based material.

Andy Shipsides · February 27th, 2011, 09:37 PM

The camera can already output 1080 60p over dual link with no firmware needed. It just cannot record that in full raster on the cards. It seems like the 35mbps cap is hard set in the Xdcam Ex world.. So Sony fit the 60p in by reducing resolution. The F800 does something similar with a reduced vertical resolution. Now if only their was an affordable 1080 60p external recorder.

Andy

Daniel Doherty · February 27th, 2011, 10:15 PM

Andy,

Can you confirm that the 60p coming from the dual link is full 1920 x 1080 and not the 1440 x 1080 as stated on the Sony product page?

Thanks,
Daniel

James Houk · February 27th, 2011, 10:35 PM

You're misreading a recording specification for XDCAM-EX as being the same as a camera output specification. These things are not the same at all.

http://ws.sel.sony.com/PIPWebService...p%20Manual.pdf

Bottom of page 20, in regards to the dual link output (which can only be activated when in HQ 1920 59.94i recording mode):

NTSC Area : Port A: 1920 × 1080/59.94P@1.5G Port B: 1920 × 1080/59.94P@1.5G

What does this mean? If you set your SxS cards to record 1920x1080 59.94i, then you can simultaneously instruct the camera to output a 1920x1080 59.94p signal over Dual Link HD-SDI

Daniel Doherty · February 27th, 2011, 11:01 PM

Ha, forum tag. I responded to your post on the other forum. You're right, I was misreading the product page but that also had to be a typo.

Andrew Stone · February 27th, 2011, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy Shipsides

So Sony fit the 60p in by reducing resolution. The F800 does something similar with a reduced vertical resolution. Now if only their was an affordable 1080 60p external recorder.

Well we'll just have to wait and see at NAB. Almost no point in speculating except for amusement. Sony reps have leaked out some vague info but not enough to hang your hat on and I am sure they will be treading this one very carefully waiting for announcements from others before releasing any info on pricing. Right now there are only a couple of reference points for them to base their pricing but obviously this is going to change within the next 8 weeks.

Andy Shipsides · March 1st, 2011, 09:33 PM

Yea. This forum got me going too.. starting believing it was possible. No 60p recording in 1440 or 1080 right now.

However I found that if you set the camera to 1080 59.94i and change the output to Dual Link... then you will get a 1080 60p output. No firmware needed. Now you just need a CineDeck or something similar to record it. :)

Timur Civan · March 2nd, 2011, 01:03 AM

eye heart Cinedeck.

Cant wait to buy one.

Peter Moretti · March 2nd, 2011, 05:08 AM

Any idea on how color accurate the monitor is? Can it compare to a TV Logic or samllHD? Also, does it record ProRes 4:4:4:4 or only uncompressed 4:4:4?

Thanks much!

Aaron Newsome · March 4th, 2011, 05:43 AM

I have an F3 and a Cinedeck extreme. I'll give it a try, 1080 60p.

Aaron Newsome · March 4th, 2011, 10:32 AM

Hi guys. I'm happy to report that the 1080/60p recording with the F3 and Cinedeck works very well. After reading this thread, I was compelled to do a test. I conformed the 60p file to 23.98 for a nice slow motion effect.

To clear up some confusing things I keep hearing posted here and there in forums.

1.) The output at the dual link SDI is full raster 1920x1080
2.) This does not require a firmware upgrade (recording 4:2:2 only, no S-log)

Let me know if you have any questions.

Daniel Doherty · March 4th, 2011, 10:48 AM

Aaron,

That's good news. Thanks for doing the tests. On a side note, have you had any trouble with the Cinedeck overheating? I'm considering a purchase.

Thanks,
Daniel

February 27th, 2011, 11:09 AM	#1
Daniel Doherty Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Los Angeles, Ca Posts: 58	60p resolution hit? On the Sony product page it states that the resolution for recording 60p (59.94) is 1440 x 1080. Is this normal?

February 27th, 2011, 11:46 AM	#2
Phil Lee Major Player Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: London Posts: 302	Re: 60p resolution hit? Hi Not normal, other camcorders manage 1920x1080 just fine at 50p/60p. Just a restriction imposed by the hardware I expect. Regards Phil

February 27th, 2011, 11:49 AM	#3
Bob Willis Major Player Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico Posts: 292	Re: 60p resolution hit? There has always been some kind of resolution trade off for 60p with Sony and Panasonic cameras. Depending on the camera each would handle the resolution change in a different manner. Many would use the 1280x720 resolution for 60p. Some would compromise the codec rate. So yes this is normal or common.

February 27th, 2011, 04:20 PM	#4
Andrew Stone Major Player Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 975	Re: 60p resolution hit? I assume this is after a camera is upgraded with the firmware to be put out in April (or thereabouts) but is this for in camera recording or is this to the 10bit 444 recorder that Sony is putting out. I recall that 60p was to be at full HD raster of 1920 by 1080 with the 10bit/444 recorder not the squished aspect ratio they used for HDV based material.

February 27th, 2011, 09:37 PM	#5
Andy Shipsides Sponsor: Abel CineTech Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: New York, NY Posts: 361	Re: 60p resolution hit? The camera can already output 1080 60p over dual link with no firmware needed. It just cannot record that in full raster on the cards. It seems like the 35mbps cap is hard set in the Xdcam Ex world.. So Sony fit the 60p in by reducing resolution. The F800 does something similar with a reduced vertical resolution. Now if only their was an affordable 1080 60p external recorder. Andy __________________ Andy Shipsides -Camera Technology Specialist AbelCineTech, New York - Visit our Blog - http://blog.abelcine.com

February 27th, 2011, 10:15 PM	#6
Daniel Doherty Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Los Angeles, Ca Posts: 58	Re: 60p resolution hit? Andy, Can you confirm that the 60p coming from the dual link is full 1920 x 1080 and not the 1440 x 1080 as stated on the Sony product page? Thanks, Daniel

February 27th, 2011, 10:35 PM	#7
James Houk Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 78	Re: 60p resolution hit? You're misreading a recording specification for XDCAM-EX as being the same as a camera output specification. These things are not the same at all. http://ws.sel.sony.com/PIPWebService...p%20Manual.pdf Bottom of page 20, in regards to the dual link output (which can only be activated when in HQ 1920 59.94i recording mode): NTSC Area : Port A: 1920 × 1080/59.94P@1.5G Port B: 1920 × 1080/59.94P@1.5G What does this mean? If you set your SxS cards to record 1920x1080 59.94i, then you can simultaneously instruct the camera to output a 1920x1080 59.94p signal over Dual Link HD-SDI __________________ www.viddovation.com

February 27th, 2011, 11:01 PM	#8
Daniel Doherty Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Los Angeles, Ca Posts: 58	Re: 60p resolution hit? Ha, forum tag. I responded to your post on the other forum. You're right, I was misreading the product page but that also had to be a typo.

March 1st, 2011, 09:33 PM	#10
Andy Shipsides Sponsor: Abel CineTech Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: New York, NY Posts: 361	Re: 60p resolution hit? Yea. This forum got me going too.. starting believing it was possible. No 60p recording in 1440 or 1080 right now. However I found that if you set the camera to 1080 59.94i and change the output to Dual Link... then you will get a 1080 60p output. No firmware needed. Now you just need a CineDeck or something similar to record it. :) __________________ Andy Shipsides -Camera Technology Specialist AbelCineTech, New York - Visit our Blog - http://blog.abelcine.com

March 2nd, 2011, 01:03 AM	#11
Timur Civan Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: New York City Posts: 120	Re: 60p resolution hit? eye heart Cinedeck. Cant wait to buy one. __________________ Director of Photography - www.timurcivan.com Sony F3, Cooke lenses, sunny disposition.

March 2nd, 2011, 05:08 AM	#12
Peter Moretti Trustee Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Sherman Oaks, CA Posts: 1,259	Re: 60p resolution hit? Any idea on how color accurate the monitor is? Can it compare to a TV Logic or samllHD? Also, does it record ProRes 4:4:4:4 or only uncompressed 4:4:4? Thanks much! __________________ Avid Media Composer 3.1.3. Boris Red and Continuum Complete. Vegas 8.0c. TMPGEnc Xpress Pro 4.0

March 4th, 2011, 05:43 AM	#13
Aaron Newsome Major Player Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Rancho Santa Margarita Posts: 590	Re: 60p resolution hit? I have an F3 and a Cinedeck extreme. I'll give it a try, 1080 60p.

March 4th, 2011, 10:32 AM	#14
Aaron Newsome Major Player Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Rancho Santa Margarita Posts: 590	Re: 60p resolution hit? Hi guys. I'm happy to report that the 1080/60p recording with the F3 and Cinedeck works very well. After reading this thread, I was compelled to do a test. I conformed the 60p file to 23.98 for a nice slow motion effect. To clear up some confusing things I keep hearing posted here and there in forums. 1.) The output at the dual link SDI is full raster 1920x1080 2.) This does not require a firmware upgrade (recording 4:2:2 only, no S-log) Let me know if you have any questions.

March 4th, 2011, 10:48 AM	#15
Daniel Doherty Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Los Angeles, Ca Posts: 58	Re: 60p resolution hit? Aaron, That's good news. Thanks for doing the tests. On a side note, have you had any trouble with the Cinedeck overheating? I'm considering a purchase. Thanks, Daniel