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-   -   PMW-F3 Scene Files. First look. (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-xdcam-pmw-f3-cinealta/492408-pmw-f3-scene-files-first-look.html)

David C. Williams March 16th, 2011 05:48 PM

Re: PMW-F3 Scene Files. First look.
 
The Sony folder sits in the root of the SxS card

Alister Chapman March 16th, 2011 06:25 PM

Re: PMW-F3 Scene Files. First look.
 
I've just checked and the "Sony" folder is there, it's what you download. You just place it in the root of the SxS card.

Aperture is a high frequency boost so it has the effect of sharpening very fine details in the image. It does not add a black/white edge like detail correction. As I have backed off the detail a little in my profiles to steer clear of aliasing and line twitter, I'm using aperture to add back a little sharpening. I think aperture correction tends to look more natural and less electronic than detail correction, yet helps retain a crisp looking image.

Push aperture too high and you can get ringing around edges and increase the appearance of noise.

Leonard Levy March 16th, 2011 06:31 PM

Re: PMW-F3 Scene Files. First look.
 
If aperture is a high frequency boost though what does the frequency adjustment control?

Alister Chapman March 16th, 2011 06:35 PM

Re: PMW-F3 Scene Files. First look.
 
Frequency governs the width of the detail correction edges. High number = higher frequency = thinner edges.

Leonard Levy March 16th, 2011 06:37 PM

Re: PMW-F3 Scene Files. First look.
 
So I take it both adjustments are going for a similar affect- to sharpen the higher frequencies and reduce the large more obvious detail affects. Thanks as always Alister.

Chong Pak March 16th, 2011 07:00 PM

Re: PMW-F3 Scene Files. First look.
 
got it, thank you!

Ron Wilk April 14th, 2011 02:22 PM

Re: PMW-F3 Scene Files. First look.
 
Hi all,
I hate to sound like a dolt, but I downloaded Alister's scene files and placed the resultant folder labeled "Pro," at the root of an adapter installed SD card as suggested, but when I tried to "recall" the files to a scene file position I got a message that says, " NG, NO DATA." Was I supposed to place this folder into the card's existing "Sony" folder?

Now, I can simply manually enter the settings, but I'd like to know what I am doing wrong?
Thank you in advance.

Alister Chapman April 14th, 2011 03:32 PM

Re: PMW-F3 Scene Files. First look.
 
There should be a folder on the root of the card called Sony then the Pro folder goes inside that. If there is no sony folder you should create on on a PC or Mac.

Ron Wilk April 14th, 2011 03:48 PM

Re: PMW-F3 Scene Files. First look.
 
Hello Alister,
Thank you for the followup.
I thought that might be the case, but it never hurts to ask.

Steve Strickle April 24th, 2011 05:46 PM

Re: PMW-F3 Scene Files. First look.
 
Anyone have any new Profiles they're happy with?? I've messed with some of these--some I like, so not so much.

Alister Chapman April 25th, 2011 07:36 AM

Re: PMW-F3 Scene Files. First look.
 
Just to clarify the differences between Detail settings and the Aperture setting.

Detail has a sub set of settings including: frequency, level, crispening, knee aperture, black and white limit. These sub settings all affect the amount and level of detail correction applied.

Aperture is a completely separate type of adjustment.

Detail works on contrast. The higher the contrast in an image, the sharper it appears. A bright sunny day will look sharper that a dull cloudy day because there is more contrast. detail works by increasing contrast by adding black or white edges to any parts of the image where the contrast changes rapidly, for example the edge of an object silhouetted against the sky. This increases contrast still further, making the image appear sharper. The crispening setting sets the contrast threshold at which detail gets added, level adjusts the amount.

Aperture is a simple high frequency boost. As fine details and textures are normally represented by high frequencies within the image, boosting high frequencies can help compensate for the natural fall off in lens and sensor performance at higher frequencies. This helps enhance textures and other subtle, fine details within the image look clearer.

Neither setting will increase the cameras resolution. Both make the image "appear" sharper. Detail correction IMHO is very un-natural looking and electronic, while careful use of aperture can help sharpen the image without necessarily looking un-natural.

Leonard Levy April 25th, 2011 11:40 AM

Re: PMW-F3 Scene Files. First look.
 
Alister,
Does the aperture setting have any effect on the very high frequency moire that has been noted in fine mesh fabrics or on resolution charts?

A more real world question about this though would be - would the frequency setting have any affect on the unusual amount of moire I've seen from my F3 on a computer screen. The only way to cut that I've discovered so far is with an old Tiffen "Diffusion filter #2". This does a pretty good job but only on wide to normal lenses as the image goes to hell on long lenses.

Alister Chapman April 25th, 2011 12:13 PM

Re: PMW-F3 Scene Files. First look.
 
No not really. The moire is caused at the sensor so adding sharpening afterwards makes little difference. There is a very marginal improvement in the visibility of the aliasing if you turn off or back right off the detail correction.

Chuck Fishbein May 2nd, 2011 03:07 PM

Re: PMW-F3 Scene Files. First look.
 
Are the F3's profiles relevant for both HD and SD coming out of the camera? Meaning, do you need to set up separate profiles for SD and HD? And if not, can an SD waveform/vectorscope be used to set up an HD color profile?

Alister Chapman May 3rd, 2011 02:48 PM

Re: PMW-F3 Scene Files. First look.
 
The gamma curves are the same for HD and SD, although Rec-709 is meant for HD production and not SD.

The big issue as always is the detail levels. If you just use the downconverter in the camera to give an SD output over the SDI, assuming the camera is set up for HD, the SD will look soft. SD needs quite heavy detail correction to look good (IMHO), so you can't optimise the camera for HD and get the best SD at the same time. You really need to chose one or the other, or do extra work in post to add detail correction to the SD material.

An SD waveform/vectorscope can be used to set up an HD color profile.


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