EX1 to FS5
 

Lots of reviews of the FS5 about both written and in video. But can't seem to find the answer I'm looking for.

The EX1 is my workhorse for corporate and conferences. It can be a bit limiting at times but on the other hand it does pretty much anything reasonably and without fuss.

Any FS5 owners here who have come across from the EX1/EX3 using it for similar work? How are you finding it?

The biggest concern I have is not so much general film making but conferences where the EX1 can often be operating on full zoom all day (often with a stage bathed in crap blue LED light) with a couple of radio mics plugged in. The bundled 18-105mm lens sounds a bit weedy. I could go for the camera without a bundled lens and then buy the 18-200 but am unsure if this will make the entire thing rather front heavy.

Additionally all this business of not having the XLR's next to each other sounds like a bit of a pain. Is it?

4K is nice to have but doubt I will use it much.

The ability to "run and gun" is key to alot of the work I do. Good results with quick setup. I just have this niggling doubt that the FS5 looks like it may just be a bit too fiddly compared to the EX1. I need one lens that can work for the majority of situations and a camera that doesn't require lengthy setups for each shot.

In short is it the "jack of all trades" that the EX1 excels in being?

Any existing/former EX1/3 owners with any thoughts?

Thanks.

Re: EX1 to FS5
 

as an ex1 fan myself, i would ask, WHY are you looking to upgrade, and why this cam? 4k? shallow DOF? interchangeable lenses? are those features you or your clients have been asking for?

i would think the next step up from the ex would be something like the panasonic dvx200 or some other more ENG style/fixed lens cam, with 4k capability and better codecs/bitrates, not a large sensor interchangeable lens cam.

Re: EX1 to FS5
 

Hi Marcus,

I used to have a EX3 (and still have a PMW-300...and I even also have a C100).

I get what you're asking - asked myself it many times!

Yes the kit lens is a bit weedy - but for the money probably worth having. You can work VERY fast with a FS5 - just as you and I often have to do in the sort of work we do. One of the main advantages is light weight and small size - the FS5 (body) is super light compared to my EX3/PMW-300 and so if I need to fly anywhere/wander round exhibitions halls/factories/offices that's a big plus/less of a burden.

With any lens of "normal weight/good reach" (other than the very light weight 18-105 G kit lens) the FS5 will tip forwards when resting - but it's still easy to hand hold. Zoom on the FS5 with this lens is slow. Manual focus is a nightmare (as its a 'fly by wire' lens)...

Don't forget about the 2x Clear Image Zoom - it's fantastic at extending the range you have in your hand of whatever lens you choose to mount.

Split XLRs, well I quite like that.

Got to go as my render has just finished and need to get the film to the client before 5. Lots more about what I thought of the EX3 and my current crop of cameras in the More Information section of my website where you might find other useful stuff as to why I decided to buy a FS5.

Hope this helps a bit!

Re: EX1 to FS5
 

My EX1 is getting old. So that alone is a reason to upgrade.

Clients don't ask for the things you listed. They didn't ask for HD. They didn't ask for 16:9. They just expect the best quality video and therefore its my job to provide it.

Interchangeable lenses is important to me as I am currently using a VG10 with 11mm lens to get the occasional wide angle shot. That camera is far from ideal but you can just about get away with it on a cutaway.

If I go fixed lens I'd still end up carrying a second camera to get that occasional difficult shot (or buying a horrible wide angle adaptor which are often worse than the VG10 option).

I'm firmly in the Sony "family" so not really willing to consider anything but. Especially when I can use my existing battery investment.

Re: EX1 to FS5
 

Cheers. That's all very useful. I'll have a read of your website.

The weight and size does look good. The flexibility of different lens setups does appeal. For someone with a fixed lens background the biggest thing coming to interchangeable lenses is that it's quite like having a whole new camera every time you change the lens.

I'll have a look at the Clear Image Zoom. Alot of people have tried to make digital zooms. Every time I've been shown the latest variant I've not found it satisfactory. Although with a sensor as large as the FS5 I wonder if Sony have some witchcraft going on in there. Will have to find out more.

I don't plan to get rid of the EX1 (just as my Z1 hung around for years after I got the EX1). I'm just now at a position where the EX1 is getting on for 7 years old and its time to start planning ahead.

Re: EX1 to FS5
 

Me again. I was VERY sceptical about the Clear Image Zoom on the FS5. "Digital Zooms" are usually bad news/over promised by Marketing types but under-delivering due to technical limitations...but I have to say I've been very pleasantly surprised with how good it is. You get 2x in Full HD mode and 1.5x in 4K mode. Sure, it's "entry level" 4K (actually QFHD - Quad Full HD at the moment) but in good light 4K also offers further possibilities for cropping in in post, of course.

The other killer feature that you'll of heard of is the Variable ND - and in a future FS5 firmware update Sony have stated (so I've read...) that they will also add an Auto-Exposure option using the Variable ND system. Could be great for (some) fast paced run-n-gun stuff where you want to keep DOF consistent/don't want to change Iris or Gain.

Re: EX1 to FS5
 

Maybe read up on another thread (http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-xdc...le-please.html) on this forum about the fs5 and there is another thread with quite a lot of complaints, it seems that some find the artifacts caused by this camera at higher iso so bad that they want to send the camera back, since you want absolutely the best image possible for your clients you maybe have to reconsider and go for the more expensive fs7.

Re: EX1 to FS5
 

Quite happy to sit back and see what Sony have to say as am in no rush. Always amusing that with every new camera that comes out people seem to find faults. There were scare stories about the EX1 when I bought that! Lens assemblies failing, lettering rubbing off and there was one guy on here who wouldn't shut up about the rolling shutter!

Re: EX1 to FS5
 

Well, I"m ok with what I see but apparently many people find that the camera produces artifacts that are so bad it's unusable.

Re: EX1 to FS5
 

I still use my EX3 a lot, It is a great workhorse and a lot easier to focus then the S35 cams.

I have a FS7 as well as a FS5 since late November. I love both those cams. They are both capable of very high end work, the FS7 is more advanced of course but also a handful. The FS5 is fantastic as a grab and shoot.

But if I have to go shoot some action footage moving quickly and lots of shifting of focus, like rally cars I will take my EX3 as the R&G just because it is much more forgiving with the ½" chip.

Both the FS5 and 7 produce much superior quality and more dynamic range in stressed DR situations, but the EX3 is in most R&G instances just fine and will intercut with the FS cams, just pay attention don't shoot with the EX3 where you have bright highlights and need shadow detail.

Do I see the FS5 as a replacement for the EX1/3, in a word no. I would buy another ½" chip cam. Is it as light and easy to use, yes and no, it is lighter and has the great controls on the handle, but it is much more critical to nail focus. Except for the Focus the FS5 is easier to handle and it produces better pictures. The FS5 is also better in low light, if set up right. For real low light I use my A7s. These cams are all great tools but they are all good at different things. So an FS5 is not a modern EX1 nor is it a FS7 or a low light monster like A7s.

And the Clear scan makes the kit lens a 18-210 FOV equivalent lens constant f4 in HD (about 18-160 in UHD), quite remarkable for $500.00, and IMHO a great Grab and Shoot lens, but by no means a cinema lens. The VariND is also a huge step forward, I am sure every cam will soon have it. It makes using Canon EF lenses easy to work.

Re: EX1 to FS5
 

If I might chime in on the conversation: first thank you all for your insights. I attended an FS5 demonstration today at Rule Boston Camera, and was very impressed. I have a PMW-300, EX1r and a GH4 currently, and I am also looking to replace my aging but trusty EX1r. The fellow doing the demo (not a Sony employee) surprisingly (at least to me) recommended skipping the kit lens and going with a fast prime instead, then keeping the Clear Image Zoom on and using it full time! I found this most surprising. Is it really that good? In addition to corporate and broadcast, I shoot some low light events where having a 1.4 or 1.8 lens would be terrific if I had power zooming ability as well. Or should I just get the kit lens anyway, since it's not too much more money and a "good enough" all purpose lens? Any thoughts?

Re: EX1 to FS5
 

I'm in the same situation.been shooting the ex1r for years,I love it but I tried the fs5 and loved it.the ex to me is a light camera, I shoot a lot of handheld with it.the fs5 is a feather compared to it.I agree with olof on the ocus being a little more of a challenge cuz of the lens.the ex lens u get a fast focus.the fs5 is a different type with an infinite focus ring.I guess the cost for that camera would b more if it had the same type as the ex.
Luckily for me I can rent the fs5 locally and really learn it to see if I end up purchasing

Re: EX1 to FS5
 

I also have a PMW300 and am thinking about switching to the FS5. One reason being that I still have several E and A mount Sony lenses from my FS100 days, and the batteries from the 300 work with the FS5.
At an FS5 demo, I used the clear image zoom with my 35mm prime and was amazed at how good it looked. I wouldn't hesitate to use this feature.

A lot of producers are wanting the narrow depth of field you can get with larger sensor cameras. I'm happy with the image the 300 produces, but if I want more work, I may have to go to a large sensor camera. I'll admit, I do prefer the better depth of field control I could have with the FS5.

My only worry is if the HD XAVC-L codec is good enough for broadcast TV work. The usual minimum requirement is a 4:2:2, 50 mbps codec, but the FS5s is in MP4, not XDCAM. I don't know if this will be an issue.

Re: EX1 to FS5
 

My EX3 dropped to the floor a couple of months ago. Decided to go for a FS5 in stead of an PMW200 or 300. I really like the film look compared to the 'video' look of the EX3.
The camera is light, de nd filter is great, no prob with the xlr inputs. Although it gets a bit crowded with shotgun, sennheiser receiver, aputure monitor.

I use 4k a lot because of the possibilty to crop in post. You can do a wide interview and get close in HD.

The stocklens is not great. 4.0 and hard to get things in focus. I'm also thinking of a prime lens and use the digital zoom.

For real run and gun work I prefer the EX3. But the picture quality of the FS5 is great. (when in focus ;)

Re: EX1 to FS5
 

I am an EX1R owner. I'm personally waiting for the FS7 replacement with HDR/Rec.2020 compliance. This would include 10bit 4:2:2 Long-GOP in 4K. The FS5 to me was just rushed hardware with tons of potential, but has arbitrary limits like DSLRs that shouldn't exist in the price range it's entering. I'd go to say I'd pick a URSA Mini 4.6K over the FS5.

Re: EX1 to FS5
 

Was out on a shoot today, a shoot I where I would typically take my EX1r. It did just fine. I used the kit lens and a 12mm f2 Rokinon WA, which was great. The FS5 is so light and so easy to keep rock steady. Focus is a pain with the 18-105, so I used the push focus when I had to and even ran in auto when necessary. I am still working out the work flow with AVID MC, however, transcoding is time consuming. Using Edit Ready for that.

Re: EX1 to FS5
 

Well, I just ordered an FS5. We'll see how it goes.

Re: EX1 to FS5
 

Glen what are u shooting with now?

Re: EX1 to FS5
 

Thanks to everyone who replied. Ordered my FS5 with stock lens today. I'll still have the good old EX1 around to help the transition.

I guess I'll have to think about all the accessories. I see people spend serious money and get very excited about adding all sorts of rigs to their camera. Hopefully people on here will be able to point out what the essential bits of kit are for those transitioning over.

I am kicking myself that I long ago sold my LANC controller. All impressions were that Sony had abandoned it. Yet it appears to be back back back on the FS5. Annoyed I sold it when I got rid of the Z1 as I loved the one I had!

Re: EX1 to FS5
 

Congrats - it's (mostly, regarding its price point etc.) a great camera - despite the bad press ;-)

I'm with you - minimal kit/keep it small and simple! However, not long after I got mine I really pushed the boat out and bought one of these JCI Multi Interface Shoe adapters for the front shoe.

(Of course, if you have the latest Sony wireless microphone kit you may not need it).

JJC MSA-MIS Cold Mount Adapter Converter for Sony Multi: Amazon.co.uk: Camera & Photo

Fits perfectly (i.e. securely) and allows me to use the shoe as I'd want.

My AT875R is a good (yet very well priced) short shotgun mic for the FS5 too.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/495302-REG/Audio_Technica_AT875R_AT875_Short_Condenser_Shotgun.html

Re: EX1 to FS5
 

PMW-300 and an HC-X1000. I suppose I'll sell both of them.

Re: EX1 to FS5
 

Cheers. Cold shoe mount ordered. Will be interested if I can hook a second radio mic receiver onto the hand grip like I do with my EX1.

Re: EX1 to FS5
 

So I need to get this off my chest: As an EX1r user, which I still own and use, I miss the speed of the focal length change I can with it, in comparison to the FS5. The 18-105 kit lens is clunky at best. The user's manual says I can feather the zoom speed. That is is not true with the 18-105; there is one speed and that is it. If I put it into manual mode, it is unpredictable to use; god awful to use. Optically, it is not bad, but as a zoom user, forget it. I don't have the funds to buy a true cinema zoom lens, so I am stuck with still camera lenses. I like the ergonomics and the slow-mo capability. Slow-mo is terrific. To do a fast pan and let slow-mo slow down the pan and smooth it out is terrific, but I don't like having to change lenses all the time.

Re: EX1 to FS5
 

Well it all arrived. Complete with a 3 inch nail through the box! Thankfully it missed the camera body and everything else.

Seems I have had to do half of Sony's assembly process for them including putting in the 4 tiny screws for the hot shoe. Dropped them but thankfully recovered them!

A separate charger and a PSU? Not sure why! With the EX1 you just got the charger.

Meanwhile they couldn't be bothered to put a camera strap in with a 5 grand camera! Anyone got a recommendation for a good strap? Have requisitioned the Canon strap I was using on my VG10 but obviously it looks a bit odd.

One of the SD cards has trouble ejecting the 64GB Sandisk Extreme cards I've purchased (genuine direct from Sandisk). Other cards I have around are fine though so I'm guessing its the new cards rather than the slot.

Hate the screen already. How are you lot folding it away for travel? I've mounted mine up front. Wish it just flipped away like the EX1 or Z1. Have visions of it getting smashed in transit. I also find the cable that leads to it annoying (I like a clutter free camera which I can operate by touch at the back of a dark conference hall).

But those are all minor niggles that I will have to get over (and I hope the images more than make up for them).

Re: EX1 to FS5
 

Yes. Although it does seem to be able to feather, it's actually worse at it than the original EX1 was (IIRC fixed for the EX1R). EX1 owners will know what a crapshoot it is trying to get a smooth zoom. Sometimes you can feather it fine, sometimes it will do a jerk and then start moving. One of those things you learn to live with.

Only played with the FS5 briefly. The lens does feel very "domestic". No nice action to the zoom. Kind of mechanics you get on a camcorder. Hope something affordable and nicer becomes available.

That said I think the future for people like us to own a fixed lens camera like an EX1 for more general work, and a FS5 or similar for more filmic stuff where you get the time to compose shots and where you wouldn't use zooms during shots anyway.

Re: EX1 to FS5
 

If you don't need the S35 sensor of the FS5, and your clients are not demanding anything else specifically just yet. And you're coming from the small sensor EX1, and want to stick with Sony, perhaps consider picking up a Sony X70? (or AX100, same sensor as the X70)

It is a much bigger sensor in the X70 than in the EX1! But could be much more your run and gun camcorder style of an EX1 than an FS5 is.

You could still pick up a Sony A5100 with a Sony 18-105mm f/4 for dirt cheap, as a way to play about with S35 DoF and do some B roll with it. (this has been my favourite combo last season for grabbing shots at weddings! :-D The person I work for though uses an EX1 at weddings, but she recently got a Panasonic GH4 and loves it)

Re: EX1 to FS5
 

I'm not going to go for the X70 just yet cause I know there's going to be a 4K version of the NX100 coming soon, maybe at NAB.

Now get this, remember how you were able to copy individual clips with XDCAM EX? You CAN'T do that in camera with the FS5. What if you have no access to a PC in the field? Your field DIT will be infuriated if he finds this out to copy clips out for a client card.

Re: EX1 to FS5
 

Perhaps a cheap PC should be part of the standard equipment package if off-loading is anticipated. I've been carrying one for years in the van just for such instances. I wouldn't want to use the camera even if I could.

Re: EX1 to FS5
 

Not buying it, dude. Not buying it. I expect some features to just be there for the price tag of $6000.

Re: EX1 to FS5
 

Just the opposite is true. The higher the price, the less need there is for silly consumer-oriented features on the camera. I don't know anybody, nobody, that uses a camera to copy clips.

Re: EX1 to FS5
 

Really? It's a consumer feature? /sarcasm

I find it so useful for backup functions on my EX1R. And now I just found out they removed it from the rest of the Sony lineup of current as well...

It's the software division probably saying "Catalyst Browse is so good! Let's cripple the cameras to rely on Catalyst!" and I bet you that's what happened. It's like the DC IN placement on the PMW-200.

I'd appreciate some manual control over my files which doesn't 100% rely on Catalyst...

Remember, Sony made the MEAD-SD02 as a BACKUP adapter to backup footage, and now you can't even do that on the F5 and F55.

I'm getting a Nexto DI if I'm upgrading cameras. This is ridiculous.

Re: EX1 to FS5
 

There's no reason that you have to use Catalyst for simple backups. You can just drag and drop the entire contents of an SD, QXD, SxS, AXSM, card to a hard drive using the finder of the computer. Or use a program such as ShotPut Pro (as I do) to make multiple backups simultaneously.

As was discussed on another thread, Catalyst is good if you want to mix individual clips from different cards or review clips or see metatdata, but it's not needed for backing up whole cards. And besides that, Catalyst is 100% free so what's the problem anyway? I don't see what the big issue is. I'll bet that the computer would copy a card in 1/4 the time a camera would take. But that's just a guess.

Re: EX1 to FS5
 

I just use the Mac's Finder for copying and backups. Works great! Never thought about using Catalyst and I have never used the camera for that function...why would I want to? It is so much easier to take the cards out of the camera and copy them. Why would I want a big clunky camera sitting on my desk with its AC, etc just to copy and back up files. Makes no sense to me

Re: EX1 to FS5
 

Since a scare with using Finder copying with the EX1 some years ago, I stuck with XDCAM transfer for the benefit of the CRC checking as it copies. Now I've got the FS5 I've purchased Red Giants Offload as it also offers an extra level of checking.

Re: EX1 to FS5
 

If Sony's going to be like this, I'm getting a Nexto DI. Like 2 people have mentioned, you don't NEED Catalyst, but fine clip management which was originally a feature being stripped away is just not justifiable. Forcing a different workflow doesn't do anything to gain trust with people that have been using one method fine for years.

Re: EX1 to FS5
 

Hi Doug.
Ever since buying your training DVD on the EX3 I have been using Sony Content Browser for backing up SxS cards. Never missed a clip. I am using a Sonnet SxS card reader with Thunderbolt and I am able to offload my cards quite fast.

May I ask what you are backing up to? Do you have any experience with the Sony ODS 77 archival system? I am looking for a new backup system as my RAID is full.

Re: EX1 to FS5
 

Have 2x EX1R & F5 at work - looking to replace EX1Rs - for conference and event/streaming work easy choice as the logical replacement is the PXW-X200, but am trying to gauge if FS5 will work with some compromises because they compact for travel and would be be great for b-roll and back-up for the F5 with adaptor + primes like we use on F5.

biggest issue I foresee is the reach:

X200 fixed fujinon = 29 - 500mm
vs
18-105G 35mm equivalent = 27 to 158mm or 316mm with clear zoom in HD

no private buyers putting the Sony 28-135G FS7 glass on it because is uneconomic or increased the size & weight substantially I guess. Occurs to me we could shoot 4k for post punch-in if we need it occasionally...looking to make sure the FS5 can still work as corporate/event cam when a fair way back in function room of 250 people etc.

Re: EX1 to FS5
 

Mark, my advice, for whatever it is worth, is to stick with the X200 or similar camera. What you are shooting is a poor match for the FS5.

Re: EX1 to FS5
 

ODA is too slow and clunky. Not to mention expensive.

I use Shotput pro to back up to naked internal drives that just go into a dock as needed. Like slices of bread in a toaster.

This dock uses Thunderbolt and can hold two drives.
Highpoint Technologies RocketStor 5212 Dual-Bay Storage Dock

I use a variety of drives like these:
Serial ATA Hard Drives up to 8.0TB SATA 3.0 6Gb/s, 3Gb/s, 1.5Gb/s for Desktop and Tower, Accessories and Controller Card options

Cheap and reliable since they have no fans, power supply, etc.

Then the drives are numbered on stored in color-coded Zipo cases that cost about $3 each.
Mukii ZIO-P010-GY 3.5" HDD Protector, Grey Color - Newegg.com

Re: EX1 to FS5
 

I might have overplayed the event/livestreams. We also do a lot of talking heads and interview plus external facing scenario promo and informational work which uses Zeiss primes on the F5. Problem is a real mix of work. But yes, used to the 20X HVR-Z5P and 14X? EX1R reach.

But even for fairly run of the mill job (interior of office for building refirb) the EX1R were no good because not wide enough - in the absence of small factor detachable camera at work I elected to fly with my own Nikon dslr with 14mm and 18-35mm to get the interior shots. Cross country with F5 primes just not practical for day trip for this job as it was only building interiors (no talent).

For this and general travel the FS5 would be perfect light weight. It would also be ideal for Steadycam pilot and One Man Crew whereas F5 iis too heavy of the former and a little big for the latter (but goes).