FS5 kit lens focus issue in manual
 

Today for the first time I used my new FS5 with the 18-105mm kit lens on a couple of real jobs. Now and again the lens was doing something strange whilst in manual focus.

As you do I'd zoom right in, including digital zoom, magnify with the FN5 button, focus up, switch off magnification and start to zoom out. A couple of times possibly around the end of the digital zoom it went horrendously out of focus. Remember I was in manual focus when this happened and nothing had touched the focus ring nor the push auto focus button, it was just zooming out.

Something else I noticed was a couple of times when zooming in, focussing up and then slowly zooming out, by the time I was at the wide end the image looked ever so slightly soft. So then I'd FN5/magnify from the wide shot and sure enough the focus was out/soft. So if I then adjusted it to look sharp (on the wide), take magnify off and the zoom in... it would be soft at the end of the zoom.

Is this a known issue or do I have a dodgy lens or a back focus issue?

I haven't looked through the rushes yet, but I'm pretty certain I captured both these issues once or twice.

Re: FS5 kit lens focus issue in manual
 

The 18-105 can't be counted on to be parfocal. Sometimes it might be, but usually not. When you zoom it is likely you'll lose focus. The best way to use that lens, if you must use it all, is as a variable prime.

Re: FS5 kit lens focus issue in manual
 

This is an issue that has popped up a few times now and it has to do with the zoom rocker on the camera grip. The 18-105mm lens is supposed to be electronically parfocal, but as of now with the FS5, it only works as expected when you use the little zoom rocker on the lens.

Do a test using the camera rocker, and then the on-len lens rocker and see for yourself. Using the lens rocker, it should work and stay in focus.

Re: FS5 kit lens focus issue in manual
 

Ok thanks guys, your feedback is appreciated. At least I know what is going on and how to get round it.

Re: FS5 kit lens focus issue in manual
 

This lens is terrible in manual mode,I put this lens in manual mode,zoom in ..end all Image is defocus.

Re: FS5 kit lens focus issue in manual
 

I had to use the kit lens at two conferences this weekend due to the run-n-gun nature of the activities. It was challenging. In fact I'll go as far to say you can't call the FS5 a run-n-gun camera with the SELP18105g.

Anyone who has used this combination knows the autofocus is slow. Too slow for anything moving... and half the time anything not moving. At one point I was shooting talking heads and the AF would randomly focus on the background.

So you basically have to shoot by focussing manually. But then you run into the lens not being parfocal via the grip rocker. So now you can only use the zoom switch on the lens. But that completely negates the one handed quick change/run-n-gun advantage of the grip.

Added to all this is the fact that the AE can be a bit hit and miss. I really wish Sony (and others) would give us the option to have zones or weighting for the AE (even AF) like you get on DSLR's. In some scenarios centre weighting exposure would be a godsend.

Now I know that doing everything in manual is the 'proper' way to make videos and if you have a controllable environment that's how to achieve the best outcome. But there is definitely a place for good auto systems that will give you usable shots 85% of the time.

Sometimes I'm required to shoot under the radar abroad or in environments where you need to grab shots quickly out on the street before the subjects notice you're filming them and the whole dynamic changes. In these scanarios you don't have time for manual, you just need damn good auto.

One of the best camcorders I've ever used for this type of work is the Canon XF305. I've acquired shots with it (in reasonable light) that no other camera has allowed previously. So some 4 years of progress later I was hoping the FS5 would be nearly as good. I accept it might not be as good re AF due to chip size/DOF etc. But I was at least hoping for decent AE and an AF system that is better than my DSLR's when shooting video. Even the image stablisation on the FS5 isn't as good IMO as the XF305 (once it's got a lock). And yes I do know they are two different types of camera, but Sony seems to be trying to market the FS5 into a similar corporate/doco/run-n-gun sector.

Anyway I'm having a bit of a rant because the FS5 was not fun to work with this weekend. I'm certain I'll enjoy it's other strengths when I'm not doing run-n-gun. But I'll be a lot more forgiving if Sony just sort out the kit lens/rocker grip issue.... right now it sucks!

Re: FS5 kit lens focus issue in manual
 

That's very disappointing to hear about the focus issue with the rocker grip and the kit lens.
Does this problem happen with just this lens or are other Sony/different makes of zoom lenses affected too?
You'd like to think that if Sony is aware of this problem, then it would look to solve it with a firmware update?

Re: FS5 kit lens focus issue in manual
 

Blasphemy!! Repent now and be saved.

Re: FS5 kit lens focus issue in manual
 

ill certainly be asking about this at nab. but as long as sony is selling these cams so well, dont expect a fix for that lens.

Re: FS5 kit lens focus issue in manual
 

Whatever happened to products being fit for purpose?
Sony listened to the edge tearing & blocking issue and this resulted in a firmware upgrade.
Let's hope they can do the same regarding lens losing focus too.

Re: FS5 kit lens focus issue in manual
 

The emount lenses aren't to be treated as old broadcast typ lenses where you zoomed in to set focus. Just use the magnification...

The way I use them (with my FS700) is that I have the camera in manual but with face detection activated. Then just hit push auto every time I want it to focus... Or I do it manually depending on situation. Works like a charm most of the time. (For people walking towards or away from camera it is usually too slow though)

Re: FS5 kit lens focus issue in manual
 

Sorry Dmitri but why should we give away something that has become a standard for a reason, is better than your method due to less refocusing and, most importantly, is being marketed by Sony?

It should just work rather than finding workarounds or taking steps backwards.

Re: FS5 kit lens focus issue in manual
 

Dmitry
That dosent work,once u set focus as u zoom out it loses focus.the stock lens is great if u do zero zooming period.
I plan on asking Sony about this at NAB,not that they're gonna do a thing.

Re: FS5 kit lens focus issue in manual
 

Jim Stamos..right, this thing happened to me at a wedding shooting.not normal thing to happen,lens set in manual mode I made zoom I lost the focus complete.

Re: FS5 kit lens focus issue in manual
 

Sadly, sales are good on the cameras so no fix from sony

Re: FS5 kit lens focus issue in manual
 

I saw that someone asked Sony about this and Sony replied to him that it would be fixed end of March in a firmware update. Grain of salt of course.

Re: FS5 kit lens focus issue in manual
 

Sony is certainly in a great mood these days, they never displayed this kind of goodwill in the past.

Re: FS5 kit lens focus issue in manual
 

I think they are perfectly aware the camera was shipped in an unfinished state. Let's face it, it has a GPS logo printed on the handle and there is no support for that as yet!

Like buying a car with 4x4 on the tailgate and then being told the support will be added at a later date.

Re: FS5 kit lens focus issue in manual
 

April 18
I'll b right in front of them face to face to ask

Re: FS5 kit lens focus issue in manual
 

I really hope Sony do something about this soon. On my next run-n-gun job I'll probably have to use one of my other cameras. If that goes on long enough I'll start wondering what is the point of keeping the FS5. Particularly if something better comes out in the next year.

Re: FS5 kit lens focus issue in manual
 

If the kit lens doesn't do what you want it to do, use a different lens. That's the whole point of a camera with interchangeable lenses.

Re: FS5 kit lens focus issue in manual
 

What would you recommend for run-n-gun Marcus?

Re: FS5 kit lens focus issue in manual
 

You'd have to ask someone who's got a few more hours with E-Mount glass. This camera is not an ENG style camera so you're never going to be 100% happy I expect.

Haven't shot in anger since I did the firmware update. However just took the camera and stock lens out in the garden for 30 minutes to do some tests and thought I'd see if the focus issue was still there.

Sat there for 10 minutes trying to catch it out and failed. Zoom in, focus, zoom out. Keep zooming around and it kept its focus point.

Now we all know the golden rule of electronics that you can never make these things misbehave when you want but I tried to range of f-stops, zoom ranges and ND settings and it was behaving itself. Granted this was one quick test.

Might Sony have already fixed this issue without shouting about it?

Re: FS5 kit lens focus issue in manual
 

I shot with the kit lens last weekend (having previously installed firmware v1.11) in manual focus mostly at f.4 and it was providing inaccurate focus the majority of the time after zooming in, focussing up and zooming out. Admittedly I'd only spot it when using manification to recheck focus after reframing, but it was out most of the time. Also note that I was using the clear image zoom, so my reframing was both in the optical and digital range of the zoom.

As to this not being an ENG/run-n-gun camera and needing to lower my expectations, here is one of Sony's headline statements; "The FS5 is a radical new design for unsurpassed on the go shooting in the most demanding of conditions."

Re: FS5 kit lens focus issue in manual
 

Having just reviewed the footage from my limited test, I've not been able to reproduce the problem today. Of course I have no doubt the second I'm using the camera for real next week it will probably rear its head again.


The kind of marketing speak they put out with every camera I'm afraid. With a big sensor and the kind of lenses these cameras use, IMO it's never going to be as quick or easy to shoot with them compared to something like the old EX1. The results will be fantastic though.

Re: FS5 kit lens focus issue in manual
 

Further to this, yep sure enough when I was using it in anger today the focus issue occurred on the stock lens. Frustrating but luckily noticed when I was setting up a shot.

While the stock lens is great value, it is rather quirky. I really don't like the focus ring at all. I hope someone comes up with an E-mount lens with a similar range to the stock lens but with a traditional focus ring, not this focus by wire thing. You just can't get a feel for the ring on the stock lens or what it will do when you turn it.

Other than that the pictures were lovely.

Re: FS5 kit lens focus issue in manual
 

the very reason im not putting out 6k for this camera. a majority of my shoots require long zooming shots.
ill look at the 150 at nab for 2500 less.
will suit my needs better.

Re: FS5 kit lens focus issue in manual
 

Are you chaps all aware of this Sony webinar (for those registered to Prime Support): Sony webinar 29th March | Large sensor, big ideas

They are asking for advance questions to be raised/addressed during the event. I've already sent my own relating to the issues with the kit lens. Can I suggest others also do the same. Sony needs to understand this is an issue and needs addressing.

Re: FS5 kit lens focus issue in manual
 

Thanks Nigel. I've sent them request for a fix.

Re: FS5 kit lens focus issue in manual
 

Please ask about the 18 105
If they are working on a fix

Re: FS5 kit lens focus issue in manual
 

The kit lens is just a 500.00, well, kit lens. You need a real workhorse lens. Also it's not great form to do any shots with a zoom happening. That's what sliders are for! Anyway, with the FS5, I have found a great workhorse lens to be the Sigma 24-105 f/4 with the Metabones Speedbooster Ultra (EF mount to E mount). Once you get that speed booster you open up the world of Canon lenses, you get an extra stop of light (making an f/4 into an f/2.8) without the decreases depth of field, and it's .7 crop almost equalizes the 1.5 crop of the Super35 sensor. SO: 24mm x 1.5 (super35 crop) = 36mm. 36mm x .7(Speedbooster Ultra crop) = 25.2mm.

I like the Sigma because it's a better performer than the Canon 24-105 f/4, but it weights a half pound more. Still, the Canon would be an excellent lens, and I think it can be had for very reasonable pricing.

The kit lens isn't parfocal, and it's focus by wire, not truly manual. Even if it was working perfectly parfocal, when you focus faster you end up getting to a focus point by turning the ring a different amount. Like, you can't put 2 marks in the ring and pull a consistent focus. We need a real manual-capable lens to do that.

Re: FS5 kit lens focus issue in manual
 

The Sigma / Speed Booster combo is working well for me too.

Re: FS5 kit lens focus issue in manual
 

this is nice lens.. :-)

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1171026-REG/rokinon_xn24_nex_xeen_24mm_t1_5_lens.html

Re: FS5 kit lens focus issue in manual
 

Just a reminder that this webinar is today, but you need to be a Prime Support customer to participate.

Sony webinar 29th March | Large sensor, big ideas

Re: FS5 kit lens focus issue in manual
 

I've just finished the webinar and they did make mention to the parfocal issue with the 18-105mm kit lens. Essentially they said the SELP18105G is a 300 Euro lens and as such we shouldn't expect too much from it's optical capability. Based on this they gave the impression there was no fix coming.

However something that didn't get addressed (perhaps because they are currently unaware) is that there is a tangible difference between the lens going out of focus when using the FS5 smart grip zoom rocker compared to the zoom control on the kit lens itself.

The zoom control on the lens remains considerably more parfocal than the smart grip zoom. So you would assume this is a software issue and something that can be fixed if they want to. So can I suggest we make this particular issue very clear to Sony rather than more generic complaints about the parfocal aspect of the lens.

I do think Sony is listening since they did bring up the topic in this webinar and as we saw they addressed the former macro-blocking issue.

Re: FS5 kit lens focus issue in manual
 

Quote:
"So can I suggest we make this particular issue very clear to Sony rather than more generic complaints about the parfocal aspect of the lens."

100% agree as we have tried a couple of the 18-105s on the following cameras. FS700, FS7, FS5 and A7S and on ALL cameras bar the FS5 both the 18-105 lenses were parfocal. They both held focus when focused at full zoom and zoomed back to wide when using the camera's zoom servos. Even with an A7s using the MOVCAM Lanc control.

Movcam Sony a7S lanc control cable released

The FS5 is the only camera out of the bunch where the focusing isn't working correctly with the 18-105. it has to be a software comms issue I think. Interestingly if you zoom back on the 18-105 on an FS5 and it goes out of focus just execute a brief quick "tap" on the camera handle zoom servo rocker and the lens snaps into focus. All very odd. We have brought this to Sony's attention and it needs fixing especially as they list this as a "kit lens" for the FS5.

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

Re: FS5 kit lens focus issue in manual
 

I have noticed this as well. But only when I use the "clear zoom" built into the FS5. So it has something to do with switching from clear zoom to regular on zooming out.

And I would think this is possible for Sony to fix in the FS5, I hope anyway.

The lens certainly is a bear to focus manually, I mostly use the instant auto focus button. But I must say I am getting used to how the manual focus works. Slow moves need more movement and is finer focusing, fast moves changes with a very small amount of movement. This is different than any other lenses I have so it is hard to get used to. It feels very unnatural, though I understand Sony's logic behind this behavior. I would prefer the standard "non accelerated" focus even on a focus by wire system.

It is a very cheap lens and remarkable capable for the price. Not my favorite by a long shot. But non the less very useful for some shooting situations IMHO.

Re: FS5 kit lens focus issue in manual
 

Nigel - thanks for the report. Did they mention the focus "feel" issue at all?

Re: FS5 kit lens focus issue in manual
 

Not that I recall Dave.

Re: FS5 kit lens focus issue in manual
 

Olof I must admit I haven't checked out the situation with the ClearImage but that is an observation worth checking out though I'm sure we have seen the problem with ClearImage turned off. Whatever it should be fixed for sure.

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney