Best way to shoot this.....Steadicam or Gyro Stabalizer DS1 Beholder or PilotFly H2
 

I have a client who wants to create a video similar to this one: (specifically the actual singing parts and violin parts; moving camera)


The shots are really clean. I have a Glidecam 4000 pro that is pretty old, and I am pondering getting the Beholder DS1 or Pilotfly H2..........or something else?

What would your suggestions be for creating similar moving shots (filmed with a Canon 5D).

Thanks!

P.S. Looks like some sort of steadicam at 1:55

Re: Best way to shoot this.....Steadicam or Gyro Stabalizer DS1 Beholder or PilotFly
 

If you already have a Glidecam, then use it. Unless you want an excuse to buy a handheld gimbal stabilizer.

Re: Best way to shoot this.....Steadicam or Gyro Stabalizer DS1 Beholder or PilotFly
 

The Glidecam 4000 pro is about 10 years old and now that I am using DSLR mainly to shoot, I was wondering if there are any benefits to the new stabilizers out there?

Specifically if the results are good with a prime lens with no IS (glidecam 4000 is only a 2 axis gimbal and does not reduce jitters completely)

Re: Best way to shoot this.....Steadicam or Gyro Stabalizer DS1 Beholder or PilotFly
 

And Steadicams are still used on most major films despite being invented in the '70's

It does reduce jitters if used by a skilled operator.

Re: Best way to shoot this.....Steadicam or Gyro Stabalizer DS1 Beholder or PilotFly
 

It looks great with IS but not quite perfect without it - at least at my skill level.

What about the gimbal stabilizers? Do they work good without IS lenses?

Re: Best way to shoot this.....Steadicam or Gyro Stabalizer DS1 Beholder or PilotFly
 

Yes, the Movi and Ronin are used extensively with cameras with PL mount lenses. They do a great job.

It sounds like you want me to tell you that a gimbal stabilizer is better than a Glidecam. I'm not going to do that. I think that in the right hands, a Glidecam or Steadicam is a wonderful tool. The same goes for a gimbal stabilizer. Either one would work for the type of video you referenced. But not just anyone can pick one up and make a perfectly smooth video. The decision is yours.

Re: Best way to shoot this.....Steadicam or Gyro Stabalizer DS1 Beholder or PilotFly
 

I have had really great results with the Glidecam 4000 and larger cameras like the Sony Z1, Z5, etc

Maybe the Glidecam 4000 is too large for a DSLR

Re: Best way to shoot this.....Steadicam or Gyro Stabalizer DS1 Beholder or PilotFly
 

Nope, the 4000 is fine for a DSLR. We have the XR-4000 (the updated 4000) that we fly a 60D on.

Here's an example:
https://www.instagram.com/p/BDzCPPzP-TL/

Re: Best way to shoot this.....Steadicam or Gyro Stabalizer DS1 Beholder or PilotFly
 

It looks like they're using a Glidecam XR at about 1:56 in the video. There's your answer right there.

Re: Best way to shoot this.....Steadicam or Gyro Stabalizer DS1 Beholder or PilotFly
 

What about shooting in windy conditions, a small glidecam is fine indoors or outdoors but becomes near useless outdoors when there is too much wind, a gimbal stabilizer will stay level no matter what.
Another advantage is better tilt and pan control, I can make moves that are either very difficult or just impossible to do with a small steadicam.

The main problem with these gimbal stabilizers is getting jitter out of the footage which is because of wrong parameters in the gimbal software so that means finetuning and a lot of testing until you get it right, only, I have not found any good tutorial that explains in detail what each setting exactly does and you need to know that before you start messing with the numbers.

Re: Best way to shoot this.....Steadicam or Gyro Stabalizer DS1 Beholder or PilotFly
 

Never having used one. But would a vest improve things?

Re: Best way to shoot this.....Steadicam or Gyro Stabalizer DS1 Beholder or PilotFly
 

I have never used any of the Gyro / Gimbal stabilizers but I am wondering if they need more time on the market to improve some of the problems that I hear about? I went to BH video and looked at the Beholder DS1 and there are a decent amount of people retuning that product. The Pilotfly H1 only has about 3.5 star rating in reviews with customers returning or disappointed in them. Hoping that the Pilotfly H2 will be better but its not available yet. Or maybe its the camera / lens set up that is not compatible with every stabilizer?

Re: Best way to shoot this.....Steadicam or Gyro Stabalizer DS1 Beholder or PilotFly
 

so I have only used the Glidecam without a vest, no sure if the vest is a huge improvement or not. Have gotten spectacular results without the vest using cameras like the Sony Z1, Z5, Ex1r etc.

I may need to rebalance and clean the system since its not quite perfect for my DSLR, 5D right now

Re: Best way to shoot this.....Steadicam or Gyro Stabalizer DS1 Beholder or PilotFly
 

I think any stabilizer would work for what you're looking to do - basically add some camera movement to a singer/musician who is mostly staying in one spot. But the benefit of the right gimbal with a lightweight camera/lens setup is you can hold it for a long time without tiring your hands/wrists. And without wearing bulky chest or arm additions.

I just shot an outside tutorial video where my camera guy pointed a Pilotfly H2 with a Canon XC10 on me for pretty much a whole day, no sweat. And no jitters. The H2 can take a higher load capacity (4.5lb) than other lightweight gimbals, but a 5D with a lens may be pushing close to that.

Mostly I've been using the Letus Helix Jr. with a C100 and 10-18mm or 18-135mm, and that combo is amazingly easy to use for long periods of time. Here's one music video where I used it for a similar reason as your music video, just add slight motion to a singer/musician.
But many gimbals are not that ergonomic and end up tiring you as much as a Glidecam, though it's your upper arm area that gets exhausted instead of your wrists. Which is why a few gimbal shooters now add an EasyRig to take the load off on longer shoots. I'd give the Helix Jr. a serious look first, and then the Pilotfly H2 or Nebula 4200 or Came-TV lightweight gimbals, depending on your camera/lens weight.

Cheers,
Slavik

Re: Best way to shoot this.....Steadicam or Gyro Stabalizer DS1 Beholder or PilotFly
 

Nice Work!

So the Pilotfly H2 has better ergonomics then some of the other gimbals out there?

I am just waiting for it to be available and see more test footage I guess. Sounds awesome so far though.

Unfortunately the Canon 5Diii on my Glidecam 4000 is heavy and hard on my back. Wish I had a lighter system. A large unit like that requires a lot of weight to keep it steady unfortunately is seems like. :(

Re: Best way to shoot this.....Steadicam or Gyro Stabalizer DS1 Beholder or PilotFly
 

pilotflyH2 is an awesome handheld unit, but i wouldn't use it with anything larger then A7(x),
flying it with Sony a6300 is a joy, light, small, but yet very nice picture.
here is something i shot recently, there is one C100 shot, the rest is a6300 on Pilotfly H2, except for the phantom4 :)

Re: Best way to shoot this.....Steadicam or Gyro Stabalizer DS1 Beholder or PilotFly
 

I haven't spent much time with gimbals since they emerged. I am admittedly turned off by the stories I hear about how long it takes to rebalance if you add anything or change lenses, how delicate the tuning process is and I also find the form factor notably awkward.

I believe the main draw is that it is easier to achieve a stabilized image with a gimbal than a Steadicam, in that the Steadicam takes many hours (days...weeks...months...years??) to achieve the level of finesse that a novice can achieve simply by picking up a properly set up gimbal stabilizer. However, fine control of pan and tilt is something that I think may possibly be equally hard between the two systems. Steadicams are immediately responsive to the operator, whereas gimbals in single-user mode have a slight delay, which is another reason I'm not particularly enthralled with the current implementation of that promising technology.

I personally think that both technologies are improved when the weight is transferred off the operator's arms, that the handheld version of both are best utilized for speed and agility vs finesse moves like the material with the band in the music video. A good example of that is that the operator in that video, Devin Graham, is best known for his action shooting, which is quite impressive. I found this work to be somewhat less so in terms of framing and horizons. It is actually a lot more challenging to do slow finesse work with a Steadicam than tearing after someone with a wide lens.

At this point in time, I still feel that the Steadicam is the better tool for nuanced work, when coupled with a quality arm and vest (I haven't been keeping up in the past few years but I'm fairly sure that the highest performing arms by a wide margin for the smaller stabilizers are still the Steadicam brand ones--their patented "isoelastic" design is much more effective than the competition). I've seen some beautifully done work on gimbals as well, but I don't think they are as effective when working in close with human subjects where immediate response to unpredictable factors is required.

One quick correction:

The gimbal on the Glidecams and any other similar stabilizer is a 3 axis gimbal, which affects the angular axes of pan, tilt, roll. The spatial axes are left-right, side-side and up-down--the last one of which is the most bandied around of late because that is where handheld gimbals tend to reveal themselves. With a handheld Steadicam type stabilizer that axis can be pretty effectively dampened via the operator's own arm if they are good at it, but of course improved with a quality arm/vest combo.

Re: Best way to shoot this.....Steadicam or Gyro Stabalizer DS1 Beholder or PilotFly
 

you should at least try it Charles, those things were made to be mounted on steadicam :)
wave looks very nice, a bit over my budget though :), if/when Chinese knockoff hits the market will get it for sure,
i think using one axis gimbal on steadicam is an ultimate combination for dead set horizon combined with the movement flexibility of steadicam ;
here is my first attempt to make them work together :)

Re: Best way to shoot this.....Steadicam or Gyro Stabalizer DS1 Beholder or PilotFly
 

Hi Buba:

I do feel that the future of Steadicam (and gimbals) will be a mashup between the two, but I think we haven't quite seen it yet. I think the Arri (formerly Sachtler) Trinity is a great step forward in this regard. I have heard mixed reviews on the Wave from some who tried it at Cinegear

It's all somewhat academic for me as I don't operate Steadicam any more but I remain interested in the tech.

Re: Best way to shoot this.....Steadicam or Gyro Stabalizer DS1 Beholder or PilotFly
 

he he, that one is top top top, i can only dream about setup like that,
what do you mean you don't operate anymore, like at all?
i'm gonna be flying till i can walk :)))
best!

Re: Best way to shoot this.....Steadicam or Gyro Stabalizer DS1 Beholder or PilotFly
 

Nope, not at all. Sold my rigs six years ago to focus on DP work and haven't flown since. I conventionally operate on commercials here and there but I enjoy having operators. Been working with Neal Bryant who is a phenomenal Steadicam operator.

Re: Best way to shoot this.....Steadicam or Gyro Stabalizer DS1 Beholder or PilotFly
 

I see what you mean, i just saw his reel - fantastic work!

Re: Best way to shoot this.....Steadicam or Gyro Stabalizer DS1 Beholder or PilotFly
 

Yup--and what's more, 95% of that reel was shot on a stock Master series (not considered to be one of the better arms or more rigid sleds). Neal has since moved up to an M1 and G70x arm and is only getting better!

Here's that reel for anyone else who is interested:
I think that what this reel helps indicate in this discussion is that a) in the right hands, a Steadicam can produce images as rock-solid stable as gimbals on their best day and b) the type of fine control of pan and tilt demonstrated here would be extraordinarily hard to do with a gimbal in follow mode.

I do however believe that if one is looking for a system that you can essentially pick up and go with a minimum of practice, better results will be likely be had with a gimbal.

Re: Best way to shoot this.....Steadicam or Gyro Stabalizer DS1 Beholder or PilotFly
 

Bought beholder ds1, within 30 minutes asked for a refund, this thing is only good for light cameras period, canon 70 d with 17-55 no good, Sony a7s ii with 24-70 not the best, gh4 not tried but now what, came single would imagine be the same, pilot fly h2 same so back to me hd 4000 glide cam unless someone tells me to get the ronin m and its miles better???

Re: Best way to shoot this.....Steadicam or Gyro Stabalizer DS1 Beholder or PilotFly
 

That's weird as the DS1 has a bigger payload (compared to the ms1) up to 1,7kg, why did it not work?

Re: Best way to shoot this.....Steadicam or Gyro Stabalizer DS1 Beholder or PilotFly
 

veering down to the left when the arm was pulled all the way to the right when balancing,flip the screen closed and manged to balance it but could not see the screen did not try the 50 mm as its smaller but need wider on the thing, pity the concept was all there,