Just got Glidecam V-8, I'm impressed :)
 

Subject says it all, just go my V-8 today and I'm impressed. I was using a Glidecam 2000 pro before and although was good it is night and day compared to this. The V8 isn't 100% properly balanced yet, but even the stuff I've done tonight looks pretty damn good. It was pretty easy to put together and balances much the same way as the 2000 pro so again not too much of a hassle.

Once I've had a proper chance to have a play with it, I'll post more of my thoughts and some footage.

Thanks to Charles, Jeff and Wayne for the advice before I made my purchase :)

John.

John,

Post away! I want to see some of your footage.

Cheers!

Derrick

I'll second that

I wish I was going up to Tokyo soon, I would love to see it in action. Have fun learning how to use it, I guess we won't be hearing from you on the boards for awhile, you'll be too busy with your new toy. Enjoy!

Different John...same situation (almost), Rik. Mine hasn't been shipped yet, so I won't have it for another couple of weeks.

John Steele...Rik and I had spoken on the phone and I told him about my order or the same thing. Congratulations on getting yours. I really would appreciate you giving an update on balancing and working with it (tips maybe!).

No probs guys, I'll report back as soon as. I'm planning to play for most of the weekend :)

John.

If you are interested in what a really nice Steadicam move shot with a dv camera looks like, be sure to check out Charles Papert's short film at : http://www.instantfilms.tv/if006/hollywoodandvalentine.WMV
Download it first and then play it in Windows Media Player. Also has some great examples of creative composition, but I love the choreography between actress and camera operator about half way into the piece. Notice the camera remains level at all times, that the movement is not hurried, that it stops when necessary, but most important, that at all times it compliments what the actress is doing. This kind or shot requires a lot of work and rehearsal, and possibly a number of takes, and usually the one that is best for the actress is the one that is used in the film.

This will give you something to shoot at as you learn to use your rig. Good luck and please give us weekly reports. I confess I am not a fan of the Glidecam products after trying out the 2000/4000, but hopefully the step up to the V8 will change my opinion, if John can learn to do movement similar to the example in Charles' film.

Wayne, thank you so much for your kind words.

That shot (which was nicely operated by Christopher Ivins) was designed as part of an overall scheme to give each character in the film a different visual treatment; that particular character is always presented with a moving camera to match her high-strung energy. However, I didn't want the camera to overpower her energy, more like engage in a dance with her. It took me about 15 minutes to design the shot and then walk it through with the actress a few times while the camera was being converted over to the Steadicam; then I think it was 2 rehearsals and 4 takes.

In retrospect, I wish I could have spent more time on performance notes but that is the nature of Instant Films (remember that the whole film was shot in a day, from a script that had been handed to us that morning...!).

Outside that, congratulations on your purchase, John. Practice the hell out of that thing and make us all proud! Remember to keep your gimbal-hand grip as gentle as possible, keep your shoulders back, and don't neglect practicing your holds (50% of Steadicam is standing in place for a portion of the shot, imitating a tripod).

Charles Papert
Tripod imitator

:)

<<<-- Originally posted by Rob Lohman : Charles Papert
Tripod imitator

:) -->>>

A number of years ago, when the Steadicam was rather new to video work, a producer called me up and said the director on an upcoming project we were to work on, said he absolutely had to have a Steadicam for a sequence we were shooting in Las Vegas. The producer asked me to call the director and try to talk him out of the Steadicam for budgetary reasons.

I called the director and mentioned I had heard he wanted a Steadicam for our upcoming shoot, and could he tell me a little about what he had in mind.
"There is this scene I want to shoot in the mens' room," he began. "And the space is so small, that there's no room to set up a tripod, so I figured you could use a Steadicam to stand in the corner and shoot the scene."

I called the producer back and told him to cancel the Steadicam.

Speaking of nice Steadicam work... I just saw the opening scene of "The Time Machine" that has the Steadicam winding down stairs and up to a sign on a door. That's a pretty nice example of what to shoot for, John.

Great story, Wayne.

I've certainly had to do shots in spaces that were too cramped for a dolly, but rarely because there wasn't space for a tripod. I'm sure it's happened, but I can't remember. Definitely never been called in just to execute that one shot though!

This calls to mind a shot that I did in a movie called "Crazy/Beautiful" a couple of years ago in which we spent a couple of weeks shooting in a super-modern glass house in Malibu. The room we used for Kirsten Dunst's bedroom had one wall which curved out in a convex fashion, and where it met another wall it created a tight little angled nook. At one point I had to stuff myself into the corner with the rig fully in front of me, then slowly push forward into the room to meet the actors. Just one of those things that on screen looks perfectly business-as-usual, but is absurdly uncomfortable at the time!

Which also reminds me that very often, the best-executed Steadicam work can be virtually undetectable. I've actually had very few "showcase" shots in my career (as typified by the Copa sequence in Goodfellas, the opening to Boogie Nights etc.). The shots that I am most proud of are the ones that so completely mimic a slow-moving dolly that no-one can tell the difference.

And, Charles, those shots that "completely mimic a slow-moving dolly" are the ones that are going to be impossible to pull off with an inexpensive rig. This is what I hope we can get through to our young and enthusiastic shooters. Don't get sucked in by the advertising hype that promise "movie quality" shots. It ain't gonna happen with a $300 rig. That doesn't mean to give up, but rather to temper your expectations. And realize the amount of practice it takes to get good with even the high end gear. I have operated Steadicam, but in no way do I call myself a Steadicam operator, because I did not have Charles' patience to work at it and commit the hours of practice it takes to get good at it.

For those of you who may want to be professional camera operators some day, learn to operate a Steadicam as soon as possible. It is almost obligatory to know the Steadicam to move up in the profession.

And for the rest of you, hire a good operator for your films. My tag says it all.

Update #1
 

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the advice Charles I'm planning on taking plenty of time to practice this stuff and I really appreciate you taking the time to give us amateurs advice, it's amazing the people you get to speak to on the net :) Anyway update #1 on the V8.

In my last post I hadn't taken the time to really nail down the balance on the V8, I really just got it out the box and had a play. Over the weekend getting it balanced properly was my main priority. It balances in much the same way as the 2000 pro I had, it didn't take to long to get a good horizontal balance with a nice 3 sec drop time. The only issue I had was when the sled was properly balanced and I rotated 180 degrees it tipped forward. I had previously read about someone having this problem with a V16 on the Steadicam forum.

The actuall problem I don't really understand too much, it's something to do with all 3 axis not meeting exactly in the centre of the gimbal, but the fix you'll be pleased to know is extremely easy. It requires adding a thin washer between the downward facing leg of the yoke(think thats what it's called) and the gimbal. With this in place the sled balances perfectly in all directions and it was a 5 minute fix. Before I did it I got in touch with David Stevens from glidecam for some advice, they were really good and assured me that this small mod would not affect any warranty and thanked me for carrying it out, which was nice, I would hate to have had to send it back to the states for a 5 minute fix.

So now all is good, the footage I'm getting after 2 days of practice is better than I thought I'd be getting, all very smooth no up/down motion that I got with a handheld and I can shoot for ages without my arm breaking.

As soon as I get hold of some webspace I'll put up some footage, I went to a nice area in Scotland on Sunday by the banks of loch lomond, the ground is very uneven but the footage I got going through the woods by the water was excellent. So overall I'm really happy with it, one small balance problem which wasn't a big deal and thats been it so far.

So I'll take Charles advice and get back to practicing(once I've got home from my day job of course :) )

More updates to come.

John.

Thanks for the info, John. Mine will arrive around the 10th. I'm busting at the seams...can't wait to get my hands on it. I'll dive into the Japanese dictionary now to try to figure out how to ask for a "small washer." (skoshi-washero?)

If you have some examples you'd like to post and they're 5 mb or less each, send them to me and I'll post them for you.

Hi John,

I'm sure I've got some web space with my service provider, but if not then I'll sort out a couple of small files and send them to you. I'll also send you a picture of the washer modification.

Thanks.

John.

Charles wrote: "The shots that I am most proud of are the ones that so completely mimic a slow-moving dolly that no-one can tell the difference."

I think you hit the nail on the head! The same can be said about all camera work, in my humble opinion. If it calls attention to itself, then is wasn't successful.

Regarding this unbalanced gimbal issue: Casey, if you are checking in, please consider bringing this thread to the next staff meeting at Glidecam.

Considering that the V8 is a mature product and has been out for a while, it is disheartening to hear that there are manufacturing tolerance issues with this gimbal (which likely means other units are going out there with the same problem and the users are not as sharp as John S. to identify it). Placing a dummy weight on the sled, dropping the handle onto a pin mounted on the bench and giving it a spin is a quick procedure and perhaps should be part of the QC process if this issue is coming up on a regular basis.

Wow, I had no idea DVinfo was home to guys who've done hollywood movies! *giggles like a schoolgirl* Maybe we can work together one day.

Charles,

I believe Casey is now studying film in Boston...no longer at GlideCam...but I guess he's still got his contacts there and can pass on info from John. Casey...if you have a chance, why don't you chime in and tell us what you're up to now...maybe in the "These are the people in your neighborhood" forum would be better. Gotta keep up with family.

John, John, and Charles....I am in fact now studying film and sound in Boston. But it's only 45 mins from my hometown of Plymouth and Glidecam's offices. I never left Glidecam officially, im just on hiatus while persuing my studies...I'm still in touch with them and will likely be back with them for a while over the summer, as well as stopping by for a visit in a week or two. So i'll check in to the gimbal issue and pass along the key parts of this thread.

PS: Locke: i'll let them know if they get a call looking for a skoshi-washero, that you just want a small washer. ;)

Hi Casey, nice to hear from you and thanks for passing on the details of this thread. David Stevens at Glidecam has been really nice and very helpful so I certainly have no complaints, but Charles makes a good point with regards to the V8 being a mature product so really should balance OK out of the box.

I just wanted to get some more advice from you guys, I've been playing and practising and been messing around with the balance of the V8. So with the added washer I balance, then rotate 180 degrees and it's still OK, if I spin the post round that 180 degrees quickly as it's going round the sled rolls a bit, is this a dynamic balance issue? If I move it really slowly it appears to keep balance all the way around, with maybe a very slight roll but not as bad as when I spin the post quickly. I don't really understand dynamic balance too well, I tried to follow the threads on the steadicam forum but woooosh straight over my head :) A nice easy expanation of dynamic balance would be cool :)

Thanks guys.

John.

i would think Charles would be able to provide the best definition of Dynamic Balance!

Gee thanks Casey!

Nah, John, don't be discouraged that you heard that "woosh" sound. Dynamic balance is a hot button amongst the Steadi community, there are a bunch of different and painfully elaborate theories about what it is and how it works and what it ultimately means in practice. Suffice to say that my approach works for me but not for everyone.

When you have trimmed out the rig in the three axes (fore and aft, side to side and top to bottom) as you described, you have placed the rig into STATIC BALANCE. This means that the camera platform hangs level, the center post is vertical, and that you have properly adjusted the camera into balance with the rig.

However, the rig itself may not have been in a neutral state of balance to begin with. Imagine, if you will, a line that travels vertically up through the center post. This represents the fore and aft balance of the system. If the bottom section of the rig (where the batteries or counterweights live) is back-heavy, this straight line will now become diagonal, intersecting the sled at its true center of gravity fore and aft. (still with me? This is ugly without diagrams...!)

That line will now be exiting the camera platform somewhat forward of the center post (right? because it exited the bottom of the sled BEHIND the center post). This will ultimately be the center point of the camera when mounted, where you will find static balance. The problem is that when you spin or pan the rig, that diagonal line will attempt to turn itself back into a vertical line as the two masses (camera and sled) gravitate to their true balance. This is why you are finding the tendency for the rig to tip forward while spin balancing (a phenomenon known as "precession").

The remedy is to adjust the balance of the sled, then rebalance the camera. If while spinning, you find a tendency for the rig to tip forward (lens pointing down), this means that the sled itself is front heavy. Use whatever means necessary to adjust the sled, by changing the angle of the batteries or sliding the components (try to do anything that doesn't require ADDING weight!) to back-weight the sled, then rebalance the system by sliding the camera forward. Then try spinning again. It will take a while to get the hang of how much to adjust these things. The other thing that takes practice is getting a clean spin, especially at high speeds; in other words your hand shouldn't be influencing an odd rotation into the system. It's actually more beneficial to use a slow-moving spin to judge your dynamic balance, although it will be affected by the deficiencies in the design of the gimbal.

OK, there's a quickie lecture in dynamic balance! I'd be happy to clarify as necessary, obviously this is heavy stuff. Once you've found the sweet spot, you'll see a definite difference when making pans, especially whip pans. Good luck!

Sorry for volunteering you, Charles, but you're much better at explaining things technically than I am! That was actually an excellent definition. And the trouble with the V-8 is that it wasn't designed to let you "slide" things around that easy! This is where retooling your sled to add more options for adjustment is often a great idea! It might be a good idea to punch slots running down the center of the sled base (from front toward the back), one to the fore of the post and one behind it and mount monitor and batteries on these, allowing you to move each seperately to get the right balance. Ideally would be the same as the slots you'll see on the head assembly for adjusting the camera positioning.

Hey Charles, so far thats the best explanation I've read on dynamic balance :-) I'll have a play around tonight and see how I go. Also thanks to Casey for the advice but adding the washer to the V8 was cause for alarm enough without doing any major modifications :-) I'll try messing around more with the balance and see how it goes.

The way it is at the moment actually is a 5" LCD at the front with about 3 weight disks located near the monitor still on the front of the base plate then on the back of the baseplate there are about 10 weight disks, so there's a good chance that the weight isn't equally distributed across the base plate(I think I explained that right) so does this sound like it could be the problem?

Thanks.

John.

Geez, John...this is sounding like it's going to be trickier than I thought. I'm getting worried...

Don't worry about it John, we'll all be here to help when you get it :-) and besides, it's all part of the fun learning this stuff :-)

I've got my web space sorted, so I'll get some footage organised and posted, and if it helps John, I'll do a quick 5 minute training video for you to help you get started, the manual doesn't have any pictures so I'm sure it'll help.

John.

THAT would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, John!

John S: the weight may be in fact not distributed properly, so without further modification to the sled, it'll just take trial and error when placing the disks...which will take longer obviously than simply sliding the components forward and backward, but in the end will achieve the result.

Also, if you're doing whip pans or even continually spinning the sled for dynamic balance you want to be really careful of any monitor cables! if you have cable running from head to base of the sled on the OUTSIDE of the center post then you may run into hang ups on the gimbal. To prevent this, another simple and safe mod that will not void any warranties is one we even do on our demo V-8's down at the shop. Drill a hole in the back of the center post about an inch or so underneath the head...and another directly out the bottom of the sled base, right in the center of the post where it connects to the base plate. File the holes a little bit so they are nice and smooth and run an RG59 video cable in there (without any connectors)...leave some slack to allow for height adjustments in the post and terminate the cable in whatever connectors you may need for your camera and monitor (bnc on the monitor side, rca on the camera side is popular).

Once you've "internally wired" this way, you'll never have problems hooking a stray cable on the gimbal.

And yes, the manual for the V-8 could certainly be improved...i think that's another thing i'll bring up when i take a visit down there!

Excellent advice Casey, I have got the monitor cable hanging down so you're right I can't spin right round, only about 180 degress, so putting it in the post would be a good idea.

I have actually moved the weights slightly and it has improved things, it's still not perfect so I'll keep at it.

Thanks.

John.

Hey everyone... sounds like the V-8 has a few kinks to work out?? I was planning on getting one but do u think it would be wise to wait until Casey adresses these issues with glidecam?? In any event, thanx for all the great info... this is a great resource for people looking into the V-8.

One more question... I own the DVX100 and I know the v-8 is the right system for this weight range but... I plan on working with some heavier cameras in the future and Id like to be able to use my glidecam. Would it be stupid to get the v-16 and add some weight to the bottom of the DVX when using it?? Ill mostly be using the DVX which makes it seem kinda pointless to get the v-16. I just dont wanna be sh*t outta luck if I get my hands on a bigger, better, heavier cam. What do u guys think?

-Emery

I actually had that dilema too Emery, I use a VX2k around the same weight as the DVX. To be honest I didn't think I'll be using it with heavier cameras so I saved myself £1000 and went for the V8. By the looks of things the Arm of the V8 and V16 has the same mount so it might be possible to upgrade only the arm at a later date if required but casey might be able to verify that one. I didn't want to have to add considerable weight to the camera/glidecam to make it work with the V16 so the V8 was the way for me.

You can get the V8 with a Gold spring that will support upto 13lbs as opposed to 10 with the standard spring, but that might not be enough leverage for you.

The main problem I had was the balance on the gimbal and having to add the washer, but it was actually someone with a V16 that had already sorted this problem that told me about it, so it doesn't look like this is limited to the V8, I think the V8 uses the same handle which attaches to the gimbal and this is the problem area. It really wasn't a big deal to fix however. I think the other issue when I spin the sled is just down to the position of the weights 'cause I've been playing around with it tonight and it's spining better since I've made some adjustments, it's still not perfect but it's better so I'm nearly there :-)

As I've said in previous posts I'm just organising web space and I'll be posting some footage so you'll get to see it in action with a real amateur at the wheel so just don't expect anything like Charles' dolly like shots, I think I'll need a bit of practice before that :-)

John.

emery...the v-16 is overkill for a dvx100 or similarly weighted camera. trust me...it'd be awkward operating with that combo...i'd stick to the v-8 and get the arm with the goldie in it...you can theoretically push our recommended loads a little and get away with it...albeit not TOO much.

and as far as buying items a la carte...for example getting a V-16 arm to go with a v-8 rig...im pretty sure they'll do that but again David Stevens is the guy to call on that.

One thought about the spin balance issue with the cables getting in the way: you can always do your spin balancing with the cable disconnected, then reconnect when you are done--the cable won't affect dyanmic too significantly. This is the way we used to do it in the dark days of Steadicam, before the cables ran through the center post.

While we are on the subject of cables: sometimes one needs to hang cables off the rig while operating, usually mic cables or a line to the monitor. Again, there are a zillion methods out there, but my favorite is to make a big loop that hangs about 2/3" of the way down the sled, then attaches to the shoulder of the vest (velcro works great for this), and then exits off the back of the vest. This minimizes the effect that a cable will have on the operating, by distributing its twisting tendencies through the loop. Coming straight off the back of the camera will almost certainly cause the rig to rotate by itself. Ideally there should be no cables coming off the rig (that's why we use video transmitters and wireless lens controls) but sometimes it is unavoidable.

Regarding getting a larger unit, I would think that if your budget allows it, you are less likely to grow out of it down the road. You can always add weight to the camera platform if you are using a lighter camera, and unless you intend to be using the system for extended periods of time (like an hour at a stretch!) the additional weight will not be too debilitating, and it will actually improve your operating due to the added inertia. Again, just my opinion!

At last some footage.....
 

OK Guys I've got some footage for you to check out. Nothing fancy, it starts with the camera looking out of my living room window, pans round to my girlfriend walking past, then follows her out of the room down the hall, into another room then back again.

I had manually set the focus and exposure before I started so it's a bit dark, but you get to see in action.

http://www.steeleworksproductions.co.uk/movies/v8-1.avi

Let me know what you think, remember go easy on me, I've only had this thing for a week :-)

John.

Looks great John! (BTW, nice place with all the wood and what not..)

Just as an FYI to anyone else trying to watch the clip, you'll need the DIVX codec (http://www.divx.com). It took me a minute to figure out why it was sticking up both of my browsers and QT editions... ;)

Thanks for the continued updates John,
Clayton

DOH! Forgot to mention I used Divx thanks Clayton, and thanks for the kind words too :-)

John.

Thats looking super fluid! Man... great stuff!!

john, i gotta say...for only having it a week, and just getting it balanced within the last day or so...you're doin great...much smoother than i was after a week =D