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-   -   Canon Announces the 5D (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/still-crazy/49776-canon-announces-5d.html)

Ken Tanaka August 22nd, 2005 11:09 AM

Canon Announces the 5D
 
For those who have been waiting for a more economical full-frame dslr Canon has today announced the 5D.

See a concise announcement of the camera's specs and features at Rob Galbraith's site:

http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/mul...id=7-7885-7975

Chris Hurd August 22nd, 2005 11:26 AM

How about that -- thanks for the report, Ken!

Dylan Couper August 22nd, 2005 03:13 PM

The FF sensor on the 5D looks good, but 3fps isn't. Besides the size, why not just buy a used 1Ds? I'm also dissapointed in the 1d MK2 N. Is this camera significantly different at all? I think the 1d (both the Mk1 and 2) is a great camera, but I just don't see why it can't have more resolution than the 20d?? Maybe the processer can't deal with files bigger than that at 8fps?

I so want to get out of the 1.6x crop factor, but the 20d still looks like the best blend of performance for the price. I'd buy a 5D, but want more than 3fps. Id buy a 1D Mk 2 for the 1.3x and 8fps, but for the same price, would rather have a full frame sensor and huge megapixels.

Dang. I'll just keep my 10d's for a while longer.

I'm also really dissapointed by the lack of image stabilization in Canon's ultra-compact line, especially since Panasonic has been pumping out some really good little OIS cameras. This really dissapoints me because I put off buying a Panny in hopes that Canon would put one out in this batch of cameras. Oh well. I own too many Canon's anyway.

Robert Mann Z. August 22nd, 2005 03:23 PM

"Besides the size, why not just buy a used 1Ds?"

how about 5 big ones if your talking the mk2

"I'm also dissapointed in the 1d MK2 N"

if you ever used one the updates are pricesless especially the 9999 image create new folder update...

Pete Bauer August 22nd, 2005 03:53 PM

Wow, this was quick after the 20D, but then I guess it fills the gap between the 20D and the 1Ds.

I bought my wife a 20D last year and (since she lets me use it anytime), we both love it. But I'd love a full-sized sensor camera even more! Maybe she'll reciprocate and buy me a 5D this year? And some L glass while she's at it.
;-)

Dylan Couper August 22nd, 2005 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Mann Z.
"Besides the size, why not just buy a used 1Ds?"

how about 5 big ones if your talking the mk2

Did I say Mk2? NO! :)
I'm not the Pope of Cameratown, but the 5d looks pretty similar to the 1Ds (besides the body size) to me. Bummed about not having a built in flash too. Since it is a more compact (relative to the 1Ds) I'd hate to waste the small form factor by having to carry an external flash.
I dunno, it just seems to be a compromise between two good cameras, except without the things that are important to me.


Quote:


"I'm also dissapointed in the 1d MK2 N"

if you ever used one the updates are pricesless especially the 9999 image create new folder update...
No one in the general public has used a 1d Mk2 N at this point, so I'm not sure what you mean.

Robert Mann Z. August 22nd, 2005 07:44 PM

Quote:

Did I say Mk2? NO! :)
I'm not the Pope of Cameratown,
your certainly not, the orginal 1ds uses 1st generation ff technology with tons of noise at higher iso, where as canon stated the 5d uses mkII ds technology, i'n not knocking the 1ds its a great camera but it has less pixels 11.4 vs 12.8 your talking about 5d with a digic II chip that is unmatched by canons without it like the 1ds...ohh and by the way the 1ds sells for around $3,000 on the cheap on ebay, why not just get a new camera with new technology...

no flash because pro camera don't have flash, just like pro vid cams don't have built in lights


Quote:

No one in the general public has used a 1d Mk2 N at this point, so I'm not sure what you mean.
read it again my ref was to the mkII, the n model helps a lot for anyone that had used the mk2 for any extensive time

Ken Tanaka August 22nd, 2005 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Mann Z.
your certainly not, the orginal 1ds uses 1st generation ff technology with tons of noise at higher iso, where as canon stated the 5d uses mkII ds technology, ...

Actually, Canon has stated that the heritage of the 5D's sensor is not that of the 1D2 or 1Ds2 but rather a refinement of the 20D/Rebel XT sensor line. Nothing wrong there, as that's a fine sensor that Kodak would die to own.

Nick Hockings August 22nd, 2005 09:29 PM

For detailed (official) spec on any of the EOS range:

http://www.canon.co.uk/for_home/prod..._slr/index.asp

The D5 is slightly short of full frame, and on spec roughly midway between the entry level 350D and the top-of-the-range 1Ds. I guess it will be price wise too.

If anybody is looking for a DSLR with built in flash, then the 350D is the one from the EOS range. I can vouch it does what it says on the box.

Dylan Couper August 22nd, 2005 09:38 PM

Quote:

no flash because pro camera don't have flash, just like pro vid cams don't have built in lights
This camera treads the line between pro and semi-pro and fills a gap between the 20D and 1D mk2. The 20d has a flash, the 1D mk2. I do not believe that Canon decided, "let's not put a flash on this, so people will KNOW it is a professional camera." You are entitled to your repeat whatever you like though.

Quote:

read it again my ref was to the mkII, the n model helps a lot for anyone that had used the mk2 for any extensive time
Robert, my apologies. I had a hard time understanding your context due to your lack of proper punctuation and capitalization.

Robert Mann Z. August 22nd, 2005 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick Hockings
The D5 is slightly short of full frame, .

"With no cropping or magnification effect, the EOS 5D's 12.8 MP full frame CMOS sensor (35.8 x 23.9mm) offers full freedom of expression."

direct from canon...if it's not full frame please explain

http://tinyurl.com/c29kv

Robert Mann Z. August 22nd, 2005 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken Tanaka
Actually, Canon has stated that the heritage of the 5D's sensor is not that of the 1D2 or 1Ds2 but rather a refinement of the 20D/Rebel XT sensor line. Nothing wrong there, as that's a fine sensor that Kodak would die to own.

...its an all new sensor that i had mistaken from the 1ds family, it is the noise reduction chips that are borrowed

from Phils site
"With five years of in-house CMOS development since the original EOS D30, Canon’s latest CMOS sensor features 12.8 Megapixels, and the same second-generation on-chip noise reduction circuitry used on the EOS-1Ds Mark II. "

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0508/05...canoneos5d.asp

Rainer Hoffmann August 23rd, 2005 03:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dylan Couper
This camera treads the line between pro and semi-pro and fills a gap between the 20D and 1D mk2. The 20d has a flash, the 1D mk2. I do not believe that Canon decided, "let's not put a flash on this, so people will KNOW it is a professional camera."

I find the built-in flash of the 20D (or the rebel) quite useless. The lens hoods of all my favourite lenses (even that of the 24-70mm/2.8 L USM) cast a shadow on the subject when using the built-in flash. Instead of that tiny flash I would have preferred a larger viewfinder. Personally I think the 5D is a step in the right direction. 3 fps, however, is not fast enough for what I shoot mostly (sports and wildlife), so I'll wait for the 3D.

Robert Mann Z. August 23rd, 2005 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dylan Couper
This camera treads the line between pro and semi-pro and fills a gap between the 20D and 1D mk2. The 20d has a flash, the 1D mk2. I do not believe that Canon decided, "let's not put a flash on this, so people will KNOW it is a professional camera." You are entitled to your repeat whatever you like though.

at this point its safe to say the 5d was positioned toward a very pro market, some indicators are , no flash, full frame, and price. I would say the 20d is semi pro and the 300/350 are consumer, the 5d is a full frame for professionals that require full frame but need a light wieght alternative to the 1ds and don't need the extra resolution or weather sealing...

Steven Digges August 23rd, 2005 12:39 PM

Wow, you guys are going nuts over this thing already so I might as well jump on my soapbox and throw my 2 cents in. The first page of Galbraith’s article is spot on about who will by this model. At some point I will probably be one of them. First, I’ll say again that technological improvements in camera bodies always appear first in cameras in this market group, the level just below the current flagship model. As Galbraith implied, the first group of shooters that will rush out and buy this model will be the “affluent amateur”. Camera manufacturers have known this for years and they make a lot of money on the group who “has to have the latest and greatest.”

The other group will be professional photographers, for a different set of reasons. Cameras are the tools I earn my living with. I don’t want to buy more cameras; I approach it from a financial standpoint. The bottom line is, will it make me more money? Do my clients need something it has? Will it make my work easier? Will it improve my product?

First, Mega pixels – it is quickly becoming similar to the 172X Digital zoom on consumer video cameras at Best Buy, it is there so the salesman can say it is. The first question people often ask is of course, how many megs is it? The real question is how many do you need? Yes, I shoot primarily with the EOS 1D MKII because I need to. I have also had many images published in national magazines shot with my 10D. Sensor quality, and ratio is more important to me than size. Photo editors did not consider images from my old D30 to be good enough, but once you provide them with a quality image from a 6 meg or better camera it is good enough for many of them, but I do now submit images primarily from the MKII. On the other hand, some of my corporate clients have actually complained about the large file sizes from the MKII. Those pictures are being used in newsletters, brochures and in-house publications. The large files become a data management issue for them. They frankly don’t care what I shoot with, they care about how the image looks and meets their needs.

Flash, turn it off. If you want your pictures to look professional never use it unless absolutely necessary. Many of today’s digital SLRs look amazing at high ISO. Built in camera flashes have no value to me. And I find battery grips almost useless too. They are just an item to add weight to the camera and have no effect on performance. The days of true motor drives are over. The E-TTL II compatibility on the E5 is important to me.

So why will consider the E5? Sensor quality and coverage. Finally being able to utilize a 16mm focal length again is very attractive. Compatibility with all of my other EOS systems is critical. I always shoot with 2 bodies; it is a great replacement for a 10D. I find that I usually need to replace my digital bodies with every other generation of improvements. This camera, in combination with my MKII will meet my needs.

I am honestly not trying to be smug. I am trying to express a common thought process of professional photographers. I can assure you that these days, when I book a job, absolutely no one is asking me what I shoot with and how many megs is it. As a professional, it is my job to provide them with the product that best suits their needs. For 2 of them that is still the 10D not the MKII.

Steve

Keith Loh August 23rd, 2005 01:28 PM

So what should the semi-affluent amateur get?

Steven Digges August 23rd, 2005 01:35 PM

The 5D - but only if you don't already own a 20D.

Ken Tanaka August 23rd, 2005 02:35 PM

Thanks for that, Steve. Indeed, cameras are just tools for someone who earns a living from them.

While I do not do assignment photography, per se, and am not the 'pro photographer' that Steven is I have had the good fortune to sell quite a bit of photographic work since returning to still photography during the past year. I concur that not a single client ever asked what camera I used for an image. All they really want to know is whether or not I can deliver a 16 bit 300 dpi image file that supports dimensions of x by y inches or centimeters.

The 5D is an impressive step forward, particularly since it sets the already high digital imaging bar that much higher. Now if it only featured a shutter as quiet as my 10D's I might very well bite on it eventually. (I should add that I shoot with a 10D, a 1D Mark II, a 1Ds Mark II, and even a Leica M7 depending on my objective.)

Steven Digges August 23rd, 2005 05:06 PM

Ken,
A Leica M7. Now that is a real camera! You always have the nice stuff. I do miss the days when I carried around 2 Nikon F3s and a FM2 back up. The word upgrade was not even part of the lexicon.

The reason you have been asked about delivery specs is because you are turning architecture into art and it has gone into coffee table books. My work has little to do with art. I am a hack that shoots for anyone that pays me for an assignment. Photography has been good to me and I still enjoy it.

Keith,
I did know you were kidding; I’ve enjoyed the humor in your posts for a couple of years. I will do you a favor, I will sell you one of my 10Ds for the price of a new 20D and you will still be about $1,500.00 ahead because you took my “professional advise” and did not run out to buy the 5D just because it’s there.

Steve

Keith Loh August 23rd, 2005 05:48 PM

Steven, I think any of those cameras is too much camera for anything I would use it for. But if it turns out to be a 10D I believe Dylan has one he wants to unload before he runs out and buys a 5D because it's there.

Nick Hiltgen August 23rd, 2005 06:06 PM

I know I'm in the minority here but personally I like the 20d's image sensor size because (this is the wierd part) it's much closer to the sensor size of 2/3 inch chip video cameras and when you know you'll be composing for those shots the 20d can be a great tool. Though I'm sure everyone in the bigboy world of film probably want's something closer to the 35mm image area.

Dylan Couper August 23rd, 2005 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith Loh
Steven, I think any of those cameras is too much camera for anything I would use it for. But if it turns out to be a 10D I believe Dylan has one he wants to unload before he runs out and buys a 5D because it's there.

Actually, I'm just going to follow Ken around until he gets bored of either his 1D or 1Ds and pitches one in the trash. :)

Back to flashes, even if you guys don't use flashes, do you not consider a fill flash a valuable tool? I hate carrying anything more than one body and one lens (despite the collection), and no external flash. Stuff is heavy, I like to travel light.

PS: if your lens gives you flash shadows, take the hood off!

Dylan Couper August 23rd, 2005 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Mann Z.
at this point its safe to say the 5d was positioned toward a very pro market, some indicators are , no flash, full frame, and price. I would say the 20d is semi pro and the 300/350 are consumer, the 5d is a full frame for professionals that require full frame but need a light wieght alternative to the 1ds and don't need the extra resolution or weather sealing...

Dammit, I got sucked into a dumb internet arguement. I should have just signed up for the Special Olympics. Ok, you win, I'm going outside to shoot some photos. :)

Robert Mann Z. August 23rd, 2005 08:02 PM

wow..slow down there wrangler...all i'm saying is canon is catering toward the pro market by taking out the built in flash and stuff like auto focus assit light, and auto settings like macro, landscape, and sports that the d20 and d300 have because the pro market doesn't use them, so it would be logical that this product is aimed at the pro market...

no need to get nasty, i'm wrong a lot, its ok to be wrong... :)

Dylan Couper August 23rd, 2005 09:45 PM

Robert, you must have caught my post just before I edited it. I realized it came off nastier than I meant when I re-read it, so I just trimmed it down. :)

Ken Tanaka August 23rd, 2005 10:17 PM

The vast majority of my work has been done sans flash or supplemental lighting. Generally, I work to capture and accentuate the qualities of the scene's existing light and the emotional quality of the scene.

But not always. As in videography, supplemental light can be essential for many types of image objectives and conditions. On-camera flash guns, such as the 20D's, are just not powerful enough or flexible enough to be very useful. They suck battery capacity while returning generally the same old results. They also require space in the body chassis for the lamp and circuitry.

So it makes perfect sense that Canon decided that anyone serious enough to buy a 5D is probably also serious enough to have at least one good external flash, such as the Canon 580EX or 550EX.

Rainer Hoffmann August 24th, 2005 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dylan Couper
PS: if your lens gives you flash shadows, take the hood off!

Gee, Dylan, didn't your mama tell you to ALLWAYS use a lens hood?`Just kidding.

Peter Jefferson August 24th, 2005 08:45 AM

Cough ....
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...4&page=1&pp=15
cough cough

hehehehee

well now.. umm.. yeah ok, im a big head alright.. lol

actually this cam with a 580ex should do nicely.. i dont like the price here in Oz ($5500 rrp.. i can get a FX1 fo that much money... ) but you get what u pay for i guess..
I dunno.. to me now.. gettin back into the photography side of things, im used to old SLRs with a light meter reading from the cam..
press the meter button, the lever tells me if im over or under, i change my shutter to suit, press my meter again, its level, voila good exposure... good shot... I guess its time to go back to school.. ;)

I dunno if these new cameras have these old SLR features

Jeff Toogood August 24th, 2005 09:50 AM

They didn't include a built in flash on the 5D, so they could keep the viewfinder a decent size.

Dylan Couper August 24th, 2005 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Toogood
They didn't include a built in flash on the 5D, so they could keep the viewfinder a decent size.

That makes more sense to me.

Steven Digges August 28th, 2005 05:49 PM

Info on the 5D and new EOS 1D MK11 N are at this page

http://www.sportsshooter.com/news/1442

Only a $500.00 price difference between the two of them. I’m shocked; it sheds a whole new light on this conversation. I better turn the flash on!

Steve


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