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Chris Harding January 19th, 2017 06:24 PM

Re: Basic Equipment for Live Streaming
 
Hi Roger

To be honest I have no idea at all. In a real life situation where would that be used (just for interest)

I guess a choice of switchers really depends on where you are streaming to also. With vMix I need the Livestream intermediate software to bring in the switcher and still be able to find my custom event pages which I cannot do direct from vMix so Studio is more convenient for me. You are initially using vMix as a live mixer to eliminate post editing rather than broadcasting out to a CDN so it seems to be an easier way and everything is about making things simpler surely?

The fact that I can create a custom page for each client is a big plus for me which attracted me initially to using them but then again there could be others who do the same with unlimited clients/views and a fixed cost.. I haven't looked yet. For what you are doing for schools maybe a hard switcher like the Roland feeding a monitor and going to something like an Atmos recorder might be easier as a solution so you dispense with the computer completely. It would be a lot easier to carry into a venue?

Roger Gunkel January 20th, 2017 05:05 AM

Re: Basic Equipment for Live Streaming
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Harding (Post 1926647)
Hi Roger

To be honest I have no idea at all. In a real life situation where would that be used (just for interest)

I guess a choice of switchers really depends on where you are streaming to also. With vMix I need the Livestream intermediate software to bring in the switcher and still be able to find my custom event pages which I cannot do direct from vMix so Studio is more convenient for me. You are initially using vMix as a live mixer to eliminate post editing rather than broadcasting out to a CDN so it seems to be an easier way and everything is about making things simpler surely?

The fact that I can create a custom page for each client is a big plus for me which attracted me initially to using them but then again there could be others who do the same with unlimited clients/views and a fixed cost.. I haven't looked yet. For what you are doing for schools maybe a hard switcher like the Roland feeding a monitor and going to something like an Atmos recorder might be easier as a solution so you dispense with the computer completely. It would be a lot easier to carry into a venue?

My requirement for a recorded green screen is actually very simple, I can record the green screen chat, then import it into Vmix, then do a running mix. That would include the pre recorded screen, which I can change camera angles on as it runs, feed in graphics and pre recorded live clips and record the whole thing as I go. I intend to make up a series of these which I can then drop into Facebook and our website and be able to update them quickly and easily. It's far quicker and easier than putting it all together as a conventional edit. It will also be very useful for corporate interview work, which may need a number of takes to get right.

I looked at getting rid of my analogue mixers and replacing with a digital hardware mixer to an external recorder, but the costs would be a lot higher without the ability to run in unlimited clips, graphics, virtual studio etc. It would work for schools, but not a lot else that we do. Any upgrades need to have the potential to be useable across the board rather than just for one limited area.

Roger

Chris Harding January 20th, 2017 05:28 AM

Re: Basic Equipment for Live Streaming
 
Hi Roger

Excuse my dumb brain but I take it you would record, say an interview or similar against a green screen with no frills on camera and then replay the clip and add all the fancy bits later ? That is quite a good idea as if you were doing it live and someone fluffed his lines you could simply reshoot but doing it live it means you would have to start from square one and then add everything all over again ...getting a clean clip on green screen is clever ..I get the idea now!

Yeah hardware mixers are over priced! Basically doing your example above you only need vMix and instead of doing an offline edit like we normally do ..you do a live edit BUT with a pre-recorded main clip of the people/person on a green screen. If I have it right then your only extra requirement would be a copy of vMix since you are not using live cameras. Sounds like you have found an ideal solution without too much outlay.

I wonder how much of your plan could be applied to wedding edits? If the couple want a wedding without any stream then it might be an effective way of recording a ceremony and reception??? All the post work then would be to transfer your already live edited video to the media the couple require with could be as easy as transfer from your edit computer to a USB ..minutes not days!!

Live weddings here are picking up nicely ..booked a bride last Thursday, this Wednesda, today and have another to see on Sunday ...once brides understand what they are getting they seem to like it and we also (after your suggestion) kept our prices at the same level as our old "shoot and edit" packages so we are working smarter not harder!!!

Chris Harding January 20th, 2017 06:22 AM

Re: Basic Equipment for Live Streaming
 
Forgot about the Chromakey in Studio.. Sorry!

OK what you do is download the Windows Remote App from Livestream and install it. This when running allows you to use any PC monitor (or even your switcher PC if you run two monitors like me) as a remote camera ...you just add a remote camera and choose the monitor and it becomes a remote camera.. the only requirement is that the computers must be on the same wifi network. It also can be used as a wireless remote if you plug a camera into a laptop and then connect the laptop to studio.

Chromakey is then easy as you select your camera source as Remote 1 so when you run the clip on the remote desktop or even your 2nd monitor it comes up as a camera source and of course can be keyed out!

Obviously the remote camera app needs to be installed on the remote computer if you are using another computer and not your 2nd screen so a setup to connect let's say a webcam wirelessly would be a laptop next to the webcam some distance away from your main computer but connected to the same wifi and you then have a wireless remote camera using a wired cam into the laptop and then a wifi connection between the laptop and main computer that has the switcher, Again you can run a green screen video on a remote machine and it will run in studio as a remote camera ... I'm now wondering what little devices you can get nowdays that have HDMI input and just plug in a wifi receiver ..For livestream it might be cheaper than a Broadcaster unit. ??

Roger Gunkel January 20th, 2017 08:22 AM

Re: Basic Equipment for Live Streaming
 
Hi Chris,

Some good ideas there for me to chew over. Just a thought, if you are using your main computer to stream out via wifi, won't it put a lot more demand on the system of you are also transmitting in from another device? Also how can you set up your main computer to recognize the outgoing hotspot, if you have configured it to recognize the incoming wifi from the remote cam/computers?

On the idea of camera HDMI in to a small capture device, then transmitting from that, there are a number of small games capture devices that will receive a camera in and convert to USB out, so it may be possible to pluc a wifi transmitter into the output. These include Elgato, Haupage, Black Magic and quite a few others.

Roger

Chris Harding January 20th, 2017 08:44 AM

Re: Basic Equipment for Live Streaming
 
Hi Roger

Your main computer and remote computer are both connected to the same wifi hotspot ....it's the same as when I use the Broadcaster Pro as a remote camera ..it also connects to the wifi hotspot that the computer is connected to so they can communicate. I use USB wifi units in the computer so I can simply open it's config window and select which network I want to connect to. If you are doing your pre-recorded clip with dual screen monitors simply choose your 2nd monitor and play the video file from there..no need to change the connection cos it's all on the same machine.

Yes, if you stream in a video file or a camera your CPU usage goes up if you are streaming out as well cos it's handling two streams .. my CPU went up about 15%-20% with an incoming stream ... I was simply looking at wireless alternatives ..cable is probably the easiest I would say and one can run HDMI cable from the camera to the game capture card up to 15m safely without any issues ... The bitrate of the remote stream obviously affects CPU ..mine hit 21% when I stream in an 8000kbps video clip but drops with the broadcaster which I run at 4000kbps for an HD stream. I wonder if you bring a cabled camera into the computer via a capture card if it uses less CPU than a wireless signal? I would also assume than if you are recording to the computer with 3 cameras streaming in the CPU would work harder than if you were just streaming out of wifi??

Are there any ways you can connect cameras wirelessly to vMix ??? I don't see any indication of that on their forum as yet?

Yep lots to play with!!

Robert Moran January 24th, 2017 01:36 PM

Re: Basic Equipment for Live Streaming
 
The hassle of live streaming boggles the mind. As much as I don't like FB, the live connect is really good. Get the software, run it and make the connect. The limitation, of course, is it's restricted to Android and Ios but the connect is seamless. Trying to stream with the Sony PXW 150 is a disaster. Open Broadcast Software is awesome but one cannot see the camera even though it's wifi enabled and connected to the host computer. This is such crap. I tried to do the drill with Teradek's vidiu. It worked once, but now, forget it.

One has to know too much to get anything done. Hardware vendors have to get their act together and create a streaming standard dataset to enable a consistent connect for streaming video to the net just as the web has a consistent set of protocols that everyone adheres to in order to use the net. Streaming should be simple but it's not. Editing video at least works and cameras connect to editing apps whether they be Mac, Windows or Linux without question. Why not WiFI and streaming? Seems logical to me. End of rant.

Great info on this site without question. Have learned so much from folks who know a hell of a lot more than yours truly.

Best.

Roger Gunkel January 24th, 2017 05:11 PM

Re: Basic Equipment for Live Streaming
 
Hi Robert,

I completely agree with your post! It's absolutely ridiculous that most new cameras are wifi equipped and are on the same frequency that computers and pads are on, but they all need different apps depending on camera/computer/pad/phone make and none works with the other, let alone being able to connect directly to the computer without an app. It was only a short time ago that most cameras had DV outputs that went straight into the DV input of your computer, but now manufacturers of cameras and computers have replace the DV connection. The cameras now have hdmi outs, but the computers don't have hdmi ins, so you have to buy another bit of gear to convert HDMI to USB - WHY!!!! I don't believe it is beyond the wit of modern electronics engineers to have computer inputs matching camera outputs or am I just expecting too much? Could it be that the manufacturers want anyone who wants to even consider editing or streaming to spend out obscene amounts of money on their Pro ranges, rather than enabling lower end gear? Perish the thought!!!

Hi Chris.

I think that you are probably correct in assuming that wireless signals will take more CPU power than cable transmitted. I am still being continuously frustrated at getting camera signals into both Vmix and Livestream. I succeeded in getting two webcams connected into Vmix at one point, but can no longer get either software to recognise any USB camera input no matter what settings I use. I even bought a HDMI to USB interface box to use my HDMI out cams, but that only seems to work with it's own software even though both the mixer programmes show the conversion box is plugged in. I am rapidly becoming disillusioned with the whole clumsiness and stupidity of trying to interface the different streams, as Robert has posted.

Roger

Chris Harding January 24th, 2017 06:29 PM

Re: Basic Equipment for Live Streaming
 
Hi Robert and Roger

Maybe I'm just lucky and things fall into place but I really haven't had any serious issues. I'm broadcasting personal stuff so I stay away from FB and YT ....With a Livestream or Teradek Encoder on the hotshoe of the camera and a wifi hotspot ..the initial setup was a tad tricky but otherwise it seems fairly simple to me and I'm no genius!

Yes admittedly it's not as easy to configure as a video camera where you can set it to auto and push the record button!

Roger? I wonder if it's anything to do with your OS? I'm using Win7 Pro and I know you have Win 10
Quite often manufacturers are slow to update their own drivers when Microsoft come out with a new system.

Honestly, I can plug in a webcam, go to either vMix or Studio and "Add an input" and the webcam shows up in the list ...I do however find that using the LS Encoder on the camera, it needs to be on and running before I launch Studio else it doesn't find it!

In the wedding market here we have literally thousands of wannabe's all seeking some action so by moving into live broadcasts I do have a niche market for now which is good especially if it's tough to set up for them!! What HDMI>USB unit did you get? Window should find it as a USB device surely?

Donald McPherson January 25th, 2017 12:41 AM

Re: Basic Equipment for Live Streaming
 
I'm using Elgato and AverMedia both working OK. But needed to install drivers for both. I also have a cheap unbranded plug and play no driver and not trustworthy.

Roger Gunkel January 25th, 2017 04:25 AM

Re: Basic Equipment for Live Streaming
 
I also bought the Elgato Avermedia and installed the drivers plus their software. The unit was recognised immediately and I was able to record to the computer via the Elgato software, but neither Vmix or Livestream would accept an input. They both listed the but showed error messages when I tried to select them. I changed sizes, and various other parameters but made no difference. I then uninstalled and tried again just loading the drivers, but with the same result. After much head scratching and wasted hours, I decided to get on with something profitable before I chucked everything out of the window!!!!!

Chris I can't see it being a Win 10 problem as I have had no other compatibility problems at all. Not impossible of course, but I would have expected something to work on USB. I may get up in the roof and dig out a couple of my old Logitech webcams and go back to absolute basics to find the problem. Alternatively I may just take up knitting :-)

Roger

Chris Harding January 25th, 2017 06:46 AM

Re: Basic Equipment for Live Streaming
 
Hi Roger

I'm a little confused as Avermedia and Elgato are two different companies? For vMix here is a list of capture devices that are supported Supported Hardware | vMix

With Studio it seems that unless it's a BlackMagic Card it's simply not supported!! The USB converters output must be different from that supplied from a USB webcam I guess. I have no issues at all with any Logitech webcam ... Livestream make a lot of "all-in-one" units designed for cams with SDI outputs so it is a PC, switcher and capture all in one case BUT at a hefty price from $12000 upwards ..totally out of my budget of course!!

vMix seems to be a lot more lenient on hardware so check their list and see if your model number matches anything. That might work?

I found it simple to drop a webcam into vMix too but that was about all. I'm sure Donald uses vMix BUT he also uses something called XSplit so maybe you need both.

In Studio I have no issues bringing in a couple of webcams for cutaway shots and then use the Broadcaster Pro encoder to send my main camera (FZ2500) back to studio. It seems that you need to use only supported hardware for either of these programs but see what Donald says ..he is a wizz at making DIY live stream setups.

Oh BTW: I'll have a nice wool jumper sorta fisherman's rib style in white please for our chilly Winter's nights!

Roger Gunkel January 25th, 2017 08:08 AM

Re: Basic Equipment for Live Streaming
 
OOPS!!!! You are right of course, Elgato and Avermedia are two different companies. I ordered a converter from each company and haven't received the Elgato one yet, just shows how confused I've become :-(

As Robert and I complained earlier about lack of connection compatibility, it seems that each company decides what you will be allowed to connect to their programme and refuse to maintain a standard across the board. It just seems to be an obstacle to simple progress so that they can attempt to dominate their market by reliance on their own version of the product, Apple style.

I've just ordered my wool and knitting needles, no compatibility issues there :-)

Roger

Donald McPherson January 25th, 2017 08:23 AM

Re: Basic Equipment for Live Streaming
 
I don't have vmix just xsplit. I loaded all the software for the elgato and avermedia. OK it takes up memory but it works.

Chris Harding January 25th, 2017 08:23 AM

Re: Basic Equipment for Live Streaming
 
So if you hook up the Avermedia unit on your computer and feed a camera into the HDMI side and go into Studio settings and inputs and create a new camera input, nothing appears on the drop down menu ??

Maybe crawl into the attic and grab a webcam and see if that appears on Studio drop down menus .. I can see a webcam (as long as it's connected ) in both a new Studio input and in an input in vMix no issue.

Sounds strange Roger??

Maybe ask on the vMix forums vMix Forums

There is something there about the Anniversary Update for Win10 causing webcams to disappear from inputs ....a question about your unit might be helpful??

Roger Gunkel January 25th, 2017 08:28 AM

Re: Basic Equipment for Live Streaming
 
That last comment of yours about webcam inputs disappearing in win10 could be interesting as that is exactly what happened to me. I'll have a look at the forum tonight.

Roger

Dave Baker January 25th, 2017 08:37 AM

Re: Basic Equipment for Live Streaming
 
Quote:

I've just ordered my wool and knitting needles, no compatibility issues there :-)
No? You need to be aware that knitting done on small needles is not compatible with large needles and vice-versa!:-D

Roger Gunkel January 25th, 2017 01:05 PM

Re: Basic Equipment for Live Streaming
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Baker (Post 1926850)
No? You need to be aware that knitting done on small needles is not compatible with large needles and vice-versa!:-D

LOL with my knitting it won't make much difference :-)

Roger

Jeremy Cole January 25th, 2017 03:32 PM

Re: Basic Equipment for Live Streaming
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Moran (Post 1926810)
The hassle of live streaming boggles the mind. As much as I don't like FB, the live connect is really good. Get the software, run it and make the connect. The limitation, of course, is it's restricted to Android and Ios but the connect is seamless. Trying to stream with the Sony PXW 150 is a disaster. Open Broadcast Software is awesome but one cannot see the camera even though it's wifi enabled and connected to the host computer. This is such crap. I tried to do the drill with Teradek's vidiu. It worked once, but now, forget it.

One has to know too much to get anything done. Hardware vendors have to get their act together and create a streaming standard dataset to enable a consistent connect for streaming video to the net just as the web has a consistent set of protocols that everyone adheres to in order to use the net. Streaming should be simple but it's not. Editing video at least works and cameras connect to editing apps whether they be Mac, Windows or Linux without question. Why not WiFI and streaming? Seems logical to me. End of rant.

Great info on this site without question. Have learned so much from folks who know a hell of a lot more than yours truly.

Best.

I use the Teradek Encoder and just output my camera (EX1r or FS5) to it with HDMI and connect to the web either with ethernet or Wifi and broadcast to Youtube. It is pretty simple. The hardest part is making sure that the connection is solid with good bandwidth.

Chris Harding January 25th, 2017 06:26 PM

Re: Basic Equipment for Live Streaming
 
Hi Jeremy

I do exactly the same but with Broadcaster Pro but we are looking here at sending multiple cameras into either Livestream Studio or vMix switching software which is another ball game totally ...Roger's main issue is getting the mixer software to "see" the camera coming in via a HDMI>USB adapter.

Roger Gunkel January 26th, 2017 04:33 AM

Re: Basic Equipment for Live Streaming
 
I went through the Vmix list of capture hardware and my particular Avermedia box is not listed. Does that mean that all the dozens of different converter boxes are sending different information out to the computer PC USB inputs? If that's the case, then it's about time that there was an industry standard that all have to follow, as trying to get everything talking is like trying to pick a way through an unexplored jungle without a map and both feet tied together!!

Even if you can get everything working, you are still reliant on trying to get a decent internet connection as Jeremy said, so it can still all fall apart at the last hurdle. I think I have come to the conclusion that the amount of variables, lack of standardisation and vagaries of the wifi connection have convinced me that at this moment in time, it's just not worth it. The financial outlay, many days and hours researching and the number of likely pitfalls and limitations, mean that the financial returns are going to be minimal at best. Others can pioneer and sort out the mess and I'll jump on when the ride is easier :-)

For the time being, I will concentrate on post edit streaming and downloading as a delivery option rather than the live mixing and streaming.

Roger

Chris Harding January 26th, 2017 04:57 AM

Re: Basic Equipment for Live Streaming
 
Hi Roger

I would have thought that USB was USB end of story ...I have used 3 different webcams on Studio plus I have connected to my phone, my tablet and another computer via wifi (but these must have the Livestream App) I might understand a high tech SDI capture card not being compatible but shucks USB!!! You can basically plug any USB device into a computer and it will be recognised so why can't software read it?

Just for interest vMix cannot stream to Livestream's CDN without the Producer software ! I just thought it would be awesome for your school stuff !

How much did the HDMI boxes set you back ..guess you can always sell them. Most of our wedding stuff is done just with an on-camera encoder which works well and we have a pretty good 4G network here with fast speeds ....our ground based internet connections are pathetic!!!

Sorry to hear you have thrown in the towel but with all the hassles I can see why!!!

Roger Gunkel January 26th, 2017 01:26 PM

Re: Basic Equipment for Live Streaming
 
Hi Chris,

The streaming of schools videos was the one thing that I could see being really useful, but put on the back burner for now.

The Elgato converter was 99 and the Avermedia 60, but I will either sell them or put them on the shelf to have another try in a few months.

The whole research on this though has been very enlightening and certainly live mixing and recording plus the virtual studio ideas will be ongoing. I'll also be watching what others are finding on the streaming front.

Roger

Chris Harding January 26th, 2017 06:38 PM

Re: Basic Equipment for Live Streaming
 
Thanks Roger

Point taken. My interest was sparked when a friend over on the East Coast was doing funeral services which sadly hasn't taken off that well here but I decided to apply it to wedding ceremonies initially as we have a lot of overseas people that get married here or people who have a lot of family either in the UK or New Zealand. Australia has a lot of immigrants I guess so being able to "invite" them to the ceremony is a plus for brides. The one we are doing this afternoon actually has family in the USA.

With the massive influx of wannabe videographers here and dirt cheap gear the conventional market was really saturated (photogs also offering video as more and more DSLR's can do HD video) it does put us in a different niche market and is becoming popular so I'm not having to compete with every Tom Dick and Harry for business. We had a bride ask for a videographer for this November last month on FaceBook and I counted 61 responses within an hour!

Regardless, when you get the time, I would appreciate any of your findings on getting a HDMI>USB box to "talk" to either Studio or vMix or even OBS

Have a good weekend!

Any other posters have a different setup that they find good? Maybe Roger's interest will be re-sparked? Post setups that work for you that don't cost a fortune!!

Donald McPherson January 27th, 2017 03:31 AM

Re: Basic Equipment for Live Streaming
 
I just don't know what's wrong. Both work on my laptop windows 10.

Roger Gunkel January 27th, 2017 04:28 AM

Re: Basic Equipment for Live Streaming
 
Hi Donald,

It would be great if you could go through the process of how you get them to be recognised. Whether you use the included software or just the drivers, what settings you use etc. I may be missing something, although looking on the Vmix forums it seems that a lot of people are having compatibility problems.

Roger

Donald McPherson January 27th, 2017 06:05 AM

Re: Basic Equipment for Live Streaming
 
First off. I'm using Xsplit Broadcaster. This was installed first. Then I intalled all the Elgato editing stuff and driver. A few weeks later installed all AverMedia software. Both show in Xsplit. Maybe I should try the Vmix free trial and see what happens. PS I did try two Elgatos but only one showed. Somebody did report using two of the Elgato 60 HD cards working as 1 and 2 on OBS.

Roger Gunkel January 27th, 2017 08:15 AM

Re: Basic Equipment for Live Streaming
 
Do you need the Avermedia recording software installed for Xsplit to recognise the box, of just the drivers?

Roger

Donald McPherson January 27th, 2017 08:17 AM

Re: Basic Equipment for Live Streaming
 
I installed everything.

Chris Harding January 27th, 2017 07:21 PM

Re: Basic Equipment for Live Streaming
 
Surely what is needed here is a simple test program that you can use to make sure that the adapter is actually working ? I found Yawcam Yawcam - Yet Another Webcam Software ... I wonder if that would help to see if that a video signal is actually coming into the computer and it's set up correctly.

Surely the HDMI>USB box should provide the same video output as something like a Logitech webcam?

Wouldn't that be a start to make sure we actually have video coming in??? If I plug in a webcam and run yawcam it shows nothing but I then have to select the cam from the device list and it works so would that also work if you have video coming in via the convertor box?

Another quick question ..if you plug the USB side into a port does Window "see it" ??

All very frustrating!!

Donald McPherson January 31st, 2017 12:27 AM

Re: Basic Equipment for Live Streaming
 
I was doing a Google and found that Vmix does not like Direct draw which both boxes output. Have you tried with Xsplit or other programs.

Chris Harding January 31st, 2017 01:33 AM

Re: Basic Equipment for Live Streaming
 
Hi Donald

I'm sure Roger said that also Livestream Studio didn't show the device in the drop down list. I would have thought that these convertors would "emulate" a USB type of camera yet it seems they don't

If you buy any Avermedia gear for a while they were offering a limited subscription to XSplit so it's pretty obvious that it works with XSplit but maybe not with others

It's really very strange that all HDMI>USB boxes don't simply appear as a USB camera in all software!! Do these boxes come with any sort of recording software? Maybe you have to use that to actually get a video signal ?

Probably better to stick with something that you know works with the switcher you enjoy using ....or use a hardware mixer like the Roland ....Final thought is use a hardware based mixer and bring the HDMI into your convertor and then stream out with the software they supply ... I have never had an issue cos I send my main feed to Livestream Studio wirelessly from a Livestream Broadcaster and then use USB cams for cutaways.

Roger Gunkel January 31st, 2017 04:45 AM

Re: Basic Equipment for Live Streaming
 
Using the Avermedia recording software, I could record the output from my Panasonic HD cams and from the FZ1000 through the box. Vmix and Livestream both recognised the box as inputs but wouldn't accept a signal, just saying there was an error. I downloaded Xsplit but it seemed very limited for mixing so never thoroughly tried it.

As Chris said, a USB signal should be pretty much universal, but when it comes to video it appears not. I have spent days trying to get something useable, but it doesn't inspire me with confidence in using any of the hardware or software in a live environment if I can't do it in my own home.

The hardware mixer route would be easy to use and setup and inputs seem to be standardised, so why can't it be standardised in converter boxes and software? The trouble with hardware switchers/mixers is that they are expensive pieces of kit for limited use. I changed from analogue switchers and live mixing years ago when multi stream NLEs became affordable, but software live mixing seems to give nowhere near the reliability and ease of setup that I was used to with analogue. As the technology constantly moves on, it seems to be becoming more and more fragmented.

Roger

Roger Gunkel January 31st, 2017 05:13 AM

Re: Basic Equipment for Live Streaming
 
I"ve very quickly learned over the last few weeks that multi camera live streaming is not something that is currently easy to set up or particularly reliable in operation without big budgets and broadcast priced equipment. I have also become concerned that my attempts to get some sort of live streaming under way have led to me following a direction that would lead to greatly reduced production values.

I completely understand Chris's use of streaming for immediacy and availability to remote viewers in his area, but using one main camera and a good quality webcam for cutaways, is not really a direction that excites me. A live stream broadcaster and a phone to broadcast the live action is brilliant, but I feel like I have to take a step back here rather than running like a lemming over the new must have cliff.

Only a few months ago on this very forum, there was a discussion about why you couldn't produce quality wedding work with one camera, with a couple of recorded cutaways to drop into the edit, even though it might have been alright in the early days. However the streaming direction, is really offering exactly that, limited main camera coverage with the odd cut away and seems to be offering immediacy but at a quality cost. So have we been getting it wrong for so long when all brides really want is some quick footage of their wedding as it happens rather than the cinematic production. Alternatively, is it a new immediacy just like selfies and instant video on the phone that is adding a viable simple alternative package to what we offer?

For years we have all been working hard to get cinematic qualities to wedding video, with multi cameras, sound recorders, sliders, dollies and sophisticated editing. Now we are moving into the realms of 4K, and ever more sophisticated production values after hours of editing. Perhaps streaming is just another tool in the armoury, let's hope it doesn't fragment an already limited wedding video market even more.

Roger

Chris Harding January 31st, 2017 06:50 AM

Re: Basic Equipment for Live Streaming
 
Hi Roger

Totally understood. If I was looking towards continuing with producing stunning cinematic wedding videos then I would agree with you totally but I'm not. For me it all got a bit too much when to compete you need 4 cameras, two assistants and at least a stedicam, crane and slider along with days and days of editing. Then along came the famous drone footage which meant buying a drone and 4K camera, qualifying as a pilot just to be able to complete with the opposition.

I decided to go the other direction and stick to a simple two cam setup (wireless with broadcasters) and two conference cams added at receptions and create a new market which is proving very popular AND I could sell all the fancy gear AND dispense with days of editing. Sure it's a simpler approach but there is a market for it! We actually don't broadcast to remote areas at all..there is no reception in rural Australia so most of our broadcasts are back to the UK, USA and New Zealand to family and friends there. I can actually do a single cam shoot of a ceremony with no switching (no power on the beach!!) so it's just an FZ2500 and a broadcaster streaming to our own 4G wifi on a huge stand about 50m away so we get a decent signal. No phones are involved at all ..Our connection is thru a dedicated 4GX Advanced II wifi modem.

Yes it's a new market completely but a huge amount of interest is being shown and it's enthusiastically received (Our Saturday beach ceremony had over 300 excited local and UK viewers) If I put up a conventional cinematic highlight video that I have carefully crafted over 2 days I'm lucky to get 50 views!!

I think the answer here to to stick to one system and one CDN to ensure compatibility if one does it and really, set up costs are often less than setting up a cinematic wedding gear list especially if one needs stedicam, sliders and 4K camera drones. I honestly don't think it's a profitable "optional extra" for the conventional wedding videographer at all as it's a complete system ... We have completely dropped traditional video from our packages and only do live broadcast weddings now ...I don't think trying to do both is feasible so that's why I see your point!

I purely mentioned it for theatre performances/school plays etc etc because it would saves heaps of edit time but can see you don't do enough of them to justify new capital expenditure.

Hope all this makes sense to you??

Roger Gunkel January 31st, 2017 04:51 PM

Re: Basic Equipment for Live Streaming
 
Hi Chris,

Thanks for a very interesting and detailed reply :-)

I can see both sides of the coin and am still wrestling with the thought that perhaps we are too wrapped up in the technology and striving for cinematic perfection. Perhaps we are sometimes not seeing the trees for the woods.

Seeing as how video accounts for probably no more than 10% of weddings and photography perhaps 95%, there could be a very marketable case for an upgraded photo package that includes a live streamed single camera video. After all I spent 2 decades filming perfectly competent weddings with one camera with never an eyebrow raised by clients. Now in an era of minimal quality, wobbly, pixelated short guest phone clips of weddings, perhaps a professionally filmed single camera live broadcast of the main bits plus photos may, be highly attractive to modern brides and enable turnover to remain at least the same without the editing time to worry about.

I remain open minded :-)

Roger

Chris Harding February 1st, 2017 01:12 AM

Re: Basic Equipment for Live Streaming
 
Forgot to mention that our system is a LOT different. We have Marriage Celebrants who are allowed to perform ceremonies ANYWHERE! On the beach, in a park and some even have built little capels in their back yards. We have probably a lot more casual ceremonies than you guys have. Church ceremonies probably have dropped to under 15% nowdays!! I might do one or two in a season at best!! All the rest are civil ceremonies!!

Chris Harding February 4th, 2017 08:42 AM

Re: Basic Equipment for Live Streaming
 
Just for interest Roger I'm told this works on both studio and vMix

Magewell - USB Capture HDMI

Roger Gunkel February 4th, 2017 10:38 AM

Re: Basic Equipment for Live Streaming
 
Hi Chris,

Thanks for the link :-) I found the Magewell converters during my hours and days of research, but wasn't prepared to pay 250 for 1 channel only. I'm still miffed that you can buy a cheap webcam and the USB out will go straight into the software and be recognised, but you can"t plug a 1000 camera in and get it recognised without spending a small fortune on a converter. What is going on?

Roger

Chris Harding February 4th, 2017 09:14 PM

Re: Basic Equipment for Live Streaming
 
Hi Roger

I often wonder why all TV's have not one but TWO HDMI inputs yet more powerful desktop machines have none ... It would be so simple to include HDMI inputs on the back of a computer at minimum cost so HDMI devices can be plugged in. Funny thing is that switching software can connect wirelessly to other computers, tablets, and even smart phones yet the problem all seems to be connecting a camera (with HDMI outputs) to any computer/tablet/laptop .. In Studio I can easily bring in any screen as use it as a video source but the issue is STILL getting the camera HDMI signal into the computer. I'm still puzzled why this is such an issue for modern desktop machines in this day and age.

Livestream came up with the MEVO system but it's designed to use with an iPhone/iPad and the camera units are terrible in low light too and cost almost the same as our Panny cameras. For doing stuff like Theatre products a wireless system is way more convenient but sadly unless you buy a Broadcaster Unit you are screwed. Surely there must a be a wireless encoder that you mount on the hotshoe of the camera and monitor/stream from your computer? I don't mind USB cameras in a fixed venue but there seems to be nothing available between a $150 webcam and a more fancy PTZ usb camera at 10 x the price.

I will however keep you updated!!


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