Copyrights and piracy...straight from the horse's mouth. at DVinfo.net

Rick Bravo · January 3rd, 2005, 09:42 PM

Interesting article on the FBI's website. The P2P cyber letter is worth reading.

http://www.fbi.gov/page2/feb04/pirates021904.htm

RB

James Emory · January 3rd, 2005, 10:00 PM

How is a loss figure even estimated with so much sharing going on? Where do they get these figures? I'm sure the amount is very high but how is there a way to track all of this illegal distribution and sharing to come up with a definite amount or even an estimate of losses? It's all a great big ballyhoo just like the Nielsen Ratings.

Rick Bravo · January 3rd, 2005, 10:02 PM

Federal Bureau of Investigation
Attention: Content Manager, FBI Home Page
935 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW, Room 7350
Washington, DC 20535
(202) 324-3000

James Emory · January 3rd, 2005, 10:04 PM

What, so I can be at the top of their list! I think I'm going to just stick to trafficking narcotics, thank you.

Rick Bravo · January 3rd, 2005, 10:08 PM

Here's a link to their press release. Almost a year old.

http://www.fbi.gov/pressrel/pressrel04/piracy021904.htm

RB

George Ellis · January 5th, 2005, 02:44 PM

I do not believe those numbers. I suspect they came from the RIAA. I was monitoring the Internet Radio fight by the RIAA and it was observed that price fixing at higher prices was responsible for a steady decline in sales before internet sharing really hit. It was also observed that internet radio and sharing may have actually had a positive impact on sales (a less steep decline).

Michael Bernstein · January 5th, 2005, 06:43 PM

Losses are often a fiction, a necessary fiction perhaps, but a fiction.

How do you realistically quantify what might have happened? That's what the entertainment industry is trying to do right now--they claim losses due to theft, but since the item stolen is an intellectual property, and since they can't identify every case of theft, they either make projections of lost revenues or statistical claims (guesses) of the number of illegal duplications. Both are error-prone.

Entertainment companies have good reason to weight the numbers in their favor, so I don't trust their guesses implicitly.

I too have heard that music sales are actually up, despite this rampant piracy.

I wish someone sensible and independent would do a careful analysis of the real impact of illegal duplication--file trading in particular--on the film and music business. Haven't seen it so far. Anyone?

Michael

Richard Alvarez · January 5th, 2005, 07:11 PM

Where, I wonder, would one go to gather such data.

Rick Bravo · January 5th, 2005, 07:33 PM

Realize that this thread is NOT aobut how much money is supposedly lost, it IS about the CONSEQUENCES of getting caught!

It doesn't matter if it is $23.00 or $23,000,000,000...what matters is that the Feds DO NOT have a sense of humor about your breaking the law, especially if it involves headlines.

The recording industry is, of course, going to inflate their losses with figures that are not tangible. Who's to tell them otherwise?

There is a very old saying in law enforcement..."You can beat the rap, but you can't beat the ride!" Trust me, the ride is NO fun at all.

RB

James Emory · January 5th, 2005, 08:25 PM

That's sort of like, you can outrun the law but you can't outrun the Motorola!

Illegally trading, distributing and/or selling media is definitely wrong. However, it will never be completely controlled or stopped because there's no way to monitor every download at any given time throughout the world. So, the entertainment industry needs to accept that fact and prosecute those that get caught just like they do illegal street vendors. Whining and complaining about it right now is just futile. How is this any different than copying media at home before the internet was available? The difference is that they can see it happening but only with the dumbasses that get caught by publicly displaying it with these filesharing websites. Dumbasses!

Rick Bravo · January 5th, 2005, 09:37 PM

I think that 7 years is the statute of limitations, so...

YES, YES, YES, I admit it...I reproduced LPs to 8 tracks and cassettes and gave them to my friends!!!

Boy, do I feel better now!

RB

Rick Bravo · January 5th, 2005, 09:38 PM

I don't want to hear any, "what's an 8 track?" comments!?

RB

Fred Finn · January 10th, 2005, 04:49 PM

They assume every copy that was illegaly distributed was a potential sale and then make a forumal that adds all that together. If their products were half as good as their marketing they wouldn't face the problems they do.

January 3rd, 2005, 09:42 PM	#1
Rick Bravo Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 574	Copyrights and piracy...straight from the horse's mouth. Interesting article on the FBI's website. The P2P cyber letter is worth reading. http://www.fbi.gov/page2/feb04/pirates021904.htm RB __________________ "The future ain't what it used to be." Yogi Berra. www.rbravo.com

January 3rd, 2005, 10:02 PM	#3
Rick Bravo Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 574	Call and ask! Federal Bureau of Investigation Attention: Content Manager, FBI Home Page 935 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW, Room 7350 Washington, DC 20535 (202) 324-3000 __________________ "The future ain't what it used to be." Yogi Berra. www.rbravo.com

January 3rd, 2005, 10:08 PM	#5
Rick Bravo Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 574	You have the right to remain...well, you know the rest! Here's a link to their press release. Almost a year old. http://www.fbi.gov/pressrel/pressrel04/piracy021904.htm RB __________________ "The future ain't what it used to be." Yogi Berra. www.rbravo.com

January 5th, 2005, 06:43 PM	#7
Michael Bernstein Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 114	Losses are often a fiction, a necessary fiction perhaps, but a fiction. How do you realistically quantify what might have happened? That's what the entertainment industry is trying to do right now--they claim losses due to theft, but since the item stolen is an intellectual property, and since they can't identify every case of theft, they either make projections of lost revenues or statistical claims (guesses) of the number of illegal duplications. Both are error-prone. Entertainment companies have good reason to weight the numbers in their favor, so I don't trust their guesses implicitly. I too have heard that music sales are actually up, despite this rampant piracy. I wish someone sensible and independent would do a careful analysis of the real impact of illegal duplication--file trading in particular--on the film and music business. Haven't seen it so far. Anyone? Michael __________________ Michael Bernstein, actor & film maker. 10 films in 10 weeks: www.amplecatnap.com

January 5th, 2005, 07:33 PM	#9
Rick Bravo Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 574	Misinterpretation of the thread. Realize that this thread is NOT aobut how much money is supposedly lost, it IS about the CONSEQUENCES of getting caught! It doesn't matter if it is $23.00 or $23,000,000,000...what matters is that the Feds DO NOT have a sense of humor about your breaking the law, especially if it involves headlines. The recording industry is, of course, going to inflate their losses with figures that are not tangible. Who's to tell them otherwise? There is a very old saying in law enforcement..."You can beat the rap, but you can't beat the ride!" Trust me, the ride is NO fun at all. RB __________________ "The future ain't what it used to be." Yogi Berra. www.rbravo.com

January 3rd, 2005, 10:00 PM	#2
James Emory Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Atlanta, Georgia Posts: 1,892	How is a loss figure even estimated with so much sharing going on? Where do they get these figures? I'm sure the amount is very high but how is there a way to track all of this illegal distribution and sharing to come up with a definite amount or even an estimate of losses? It's all a great big ballyhoo just like the Nielsen Ratings.

January 3rd, 2005, 10:04 PM	#4
James Emory Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Atlanta, Georgia Posts: 1,892	What, so I can be at the top of their list! I think I'm going to just stick to trafficking narcotics, thank you.

January 5th, 2005, 02:44 PM	#6
George Ellis Trustee Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Suwanee, GA Posts: 1,241	I do not believe those numbers. I suspect they came from the RIAA. I was monitoring the Internet Radio fight by the RIAA and it was observed that price fixing at higher prices was responsible for a steady decline in sales before internet sharing really hit. It was also observed that internet radio and sharing may have actually had a positive impact on sales (a less steep decline).

January 5th, 2005, 07:11 PM	#8
Richard Alvarez Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 3,840	Where, I wonder, would one go to gather such data.

January 5th, 2005, 08:25 PM	#10
James Emory Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Atlanta, Georgia Posts: 1,892	That's sort of like, you can outrun the law but you can't outrun the Motorola! Illegally trading, distributing and/or selling media is definitely wrong. However, it will never be completely controlled or stopped because there's no way to monitor every download at any given time throughout the world. So, the entertainment industry needs to accept that fact and prosecute those that get caught just like they do illegal street vendors. Whining and complaining about it right now is just futile. How is this any different than copying media at home before the internet was available? The difference is that they can see it happening but only with the dumbasses that get caught by publicly displaying it with these filesharing websites. Dumbasses!

January 5th, 2005, 09:37 PM	#11
Rick Bravo Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 574	Is 7 years enough? I think that 7 years is the statute of limitations, so... YES, YES, YES, I admit it...I reproduced LPs to 8 tracks and cassettes and gave them to my friends!!! Boy, do I feel better now! RB __________________ "The future ain't what it used to be." Yogi Berra. www.rbravo.com

January 5th, 2005, 09:38 PM	#12
Rick Bravo Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 574	P.S. I don't want to hear any, "what's an 8 track?" comments!? RB __________________ "The future ain't what it used to be." Yogi Berra. www.rbravo.com

January 10th, 2005, 04:49 PM	#13
Fred Finn Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Jackson, WY Posts: 178	They assume every copy that was illegaly distributed was a potential sale and then make a forumal that adds all that together. If their products were half as good as their marketing they wouldn't face the problems they do. __________________ i am the muffin man.