would this be wrong at DVinfo.net

Dave Morgan · February 2nd, 2012, 05:45 PM

I made a music video for someone and when I finished it they asked me to upload it to there YouTube account . They said they would make the final payment 2 days later. It's been like 5 days and still no payment. Would it be wrong to log back into their account and delete it until I get that payment.

Allan Black · February 2nd, 2012, 07:01 PM

Why do you think they're delaying or not going to pay the final installment? And is it a big amount?

Before you do anything, check whether their youtube passwords have been changed and you can't log in.
If so you're not going to get paid.

If dealings with them have been OK up to now, no late arrivals, differences of opinion, and they were totally happy with the final result,
then send a final email asking nicely for the money. Don't say 'or else' otherwise they WILL change their passwords.

Or if things didn't go all that well .. just try and delete it, either way you won't be working with them again.
Be careful they're not violent or vindictive and bad mouth you around town.

If it's a member or visitor here, I'm afraid you're probably stuffed.

Cheers.

Sareesh Sudhakaran · February 2nd, 2012, 09:30 PM

Well if you can't delete it you could complain to Youtube on copyright violation grounds - if you have evidence to prove your claim. You could also 'follow' them online (and offline) and hound them till they pay.

Or you could just move on.

Steve House · February 3rd, 2012, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Morgan

I made a music video for someone and when I finished it they asked me to upload it to there YouTube account . They said they would make the final payment 2 days later. It's been like 5 days and still no payment. Would it be wrong to log back into their account and delete it until I get that payment.

Hmmm, repossession of a video, interesting concept. Do you have some written agreement or written promise to pay?

Tim Polster · February 3rd, 2012, 12:44 PM

I would take some sort of action. Maybe try to speak with them, not e-mail or text.

We probably all have been in this position and the thing to remember is that it is YOUR fault! :)

Do not put yourself in a compromising position by delivering the final product without getting paid first. Never violate this promise to yourself and you will avoid similar situations in the future.

Craig Seeman · February 3rd, 2012, 01:07 PM

Never deliver without final payment.

What I would have done is watermark the video and upload to my account, make private and allow them to view. Watermark is critical because it's actually very easy to download a high quality YouTube video and upload to your own account.

The only collateral you have is your work. There's never a reason for anyone to delay payment given resources like PayPall. When paid by check, unless the client has a past credit history with you, wait until the check clears.

Ryan Douthit · February 9th, 2012, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Polster

Do not put yourself in a compromising position by delivering the final product without getting paid first. Never violate this promise to yourself and you will avoid similar situations in the future.

Good in theory, but not always an option. I do a lot of freelance production work for a major car maker. They pay in 90 days. Period. But, to be fair, they at least told me this up front. Just pointing out to the many n00bs that read this forum, "paid on delivery" isn't always an option... and that's okay. That said, a small first-time client, or a client that shows any instability what-so-ever won't get the final without payment. It's a case-by-case thing.

Roger Van Duyn · February 10th, 2012, 11:05 AM

Watermarking your work is a sound business practice. I usually give a watermarked copy with a timecode overlay for clients to review. Exceptions are rare. I have regretted some of the exceptions.

Craig Seeman · February 10th, 2012, 11:35 AM

There's so many ways a client can pay nearly instantly. If they're in a hurry for the video there's no technical reason why they can't pay you just as quickly.

Yes big companies may range from net 30 to net 90. The difference is such companies have a known good financial history. But be forewarned some can be notoriously slow payers. Keep in mind if you're giving them a loan for up to 90 days I'd recommend charging them a higher rate for the privilege . . . and you can then give them a graduated discount as an incentive.

They can bankrupt you if you depend on such companies though. They get no love from me. I worked at a big facility many years back. They had a very diverse client list but one was very big. They would often book half the rooms in the facility simultaneously. They were taking 6 months to pay. That might half the facility was always 6 months behind in cash flow. Turns out that client was charging their clients and putting the money into 6 month Money Markets and Certificates of Deposit investments to pad their income. They began to stretch payments longer further impacting cash flow. The facility pushed for prompt payment and the client threatened to take their business elsewhere. The facility was afraid to see half their business wiped out. Eventually the cash flow got so far behind the facility went bankrupt.

In this economy more big business are moving to slower pay schedules. If you're a small business or one person shop, a few net 90 clients can put you under very quickly. Remember big ships can give you a big boat anchor.

For smaller clients/jobs I now bring the Square credit card reader with my iPhone. One swipe and I'm paid at the end of the shoot.

John Stakes · February 10th, 2012, 12:07 PM

Love the timecode idea. I do this sometimes...no idea why I don't do it all the time! Also like the Square card reader Craig mentioned.

Well we know the preventitive measure to be taken in the future...no payment = no product. But for the current situation, I would not recommend taking the video down. If it was your account, different story. I would just contact them using whichever method you usually use. Phonecalls are best but if they don't respond to a text they aren't picking up a phone call (been there)!

If they don't pay in 30 days, and you still feel the same way, you might consider contacting youtube. Sticky situation and as someone else mentioned just handle it case by case...learning along the way.

JS

February 2nd, 2012, 05:45 PM	#1
Dave Morgan Major Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 293	would this be wrong I made a music video for someone and when I finished it they asked me to upload it to there YouTube account . They said they would make the final payment 2 days later. It's been like 5 days and still no payment. Would it be wrong to log back into their account and delete it until I get that payment.

February 2nd, 2012, 07:01 PM	#2
Allan Black Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Sydney. Posts: 2,887	Re: would this be wrong Why do you think they're delaying or not going to pay the final installment? And is it a big amount? Before you do anything, check whether their youtube passwords have been changed and you can't log in. If so you're not going to get paid. If dealings with them have been OK up to now, no late arrivals, differences of opinion, and they were totally happy with the final result, then send a final email asking nicely for the money. Don't say 'or else' otherwise they WILL change their passwords. Or if things didn't go all that well .. just try and delete it, either way you won't be working with them again. Be careful they're not violent or vindictive and bad mouth you around town. If it's a member or visitor here, I'm afraid you're probably stuffed. Cheers. __________________ Drink more tap water. On admission at Sydney hospitals more than 5% of day patients are de-hydrated.

February 2nd, 2012, 09:30 PM	#3
Sareesh Sudhakaran Trustee Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Mumbai, India Posts: 1,385	Re: would this be wrong Well if you can't delete it you could complain to Youtube on copyright violation grounds - if you have evidence to prove your claim. You could also 'follow' them online (and offline) and hound them till they pay. Or you could just move on. __________________ Get the Free Comprehensive Guide to Rigging ANY Camera - one guide to rig them all - DSLRs to the Arri Alexa.

February 3rd, 2012, 12:44 PM	#5
Tim Polster Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Arlington, TX Posts: 2,231	Re: would this be wrong I would take some sort of action. Maybe try to speak with them, not e-mail or text. We probably all have been in this position and the thing to remember is that it is YOUR fault! :) Do not put yourself in a compromising position by delivering the final product without getting paid first. Never violate this promise to yourself and you will avoid similar situations in the future.

February 3rd, 2012, 01:07 PM	#6
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	Re: would this be wrong Never deliver without final payment. What I would have done is watermark the video and upload to my account, make private and allow them to view. Watermark is critical because it's actually very easy to download a high quality YouTube video and upload to your own account. The only collateral you have is your work. There's never a reason for anyone to delay payment given resources like PayPall. When paid by check, unless the client has a past credit history with you, wait until the check clears.

February 10th, 2012, 11:05 AM	#8
Roger Van Duyn Major Player Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Lakeland Florida Posts: 690	Re: would this be wrong Watermarking your work is a sound business practice. I usually give a watermarked copy with a timecode overlay for clients to review. Exceptions are rare. I have regretted some of the exceptions. __________________ Roger My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAp...2AHr_pHFID5LDA

February 10th, 2012, 11:35 AM	#9
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	Re: would this be wrong There's so many ways a client can pay nearly instantly. If they're in a hurry for the video there's no technical reason why they can't pay you just as quickly. Yes big companies may range from net 30 to net 90. The difference is such companies have a known good financial history. But be forewarned some can be notoriously slow payers. Keep in mind if you're giving them a loan for up to 90 days I'd recommend charging them a higher rate for the privilege . . . and you can then give them a graduated discount as an incentive. They can bankrupt you if you depend on such companies though. They get no love from me. I worked at a big facility many years back. They had a very diverse client list but one was very big. They would often book half the rooms in the facility simultaneously. They were taking 6 months to pay. That might half the facility was always 6 months behind in cash flow. Turns out that client was charging their clients and putting the money into 6 month Money Markets and Certificates of Deposit investments to pad their income. They began to stretch payments longer further impacting cash flow. The facility pushed for prompt payment and the client threatened to take their business elsewhere. The facility was afraid to see half their business wiped out. Eventually the cash flow got so far behind the facility went bankrupt. In this economy more big business are moving to slower pay schedules. If you're a small business or one person shop, a few net 90 clients can put you under very quickly. Remember big ships can give you a big boat anchor. For smaller clients/jobs I now bring the Square credit card reader with my iPhone. One swipe and I'm paid at the end of the shoot.

February 10th, 2012, 12:07 PM	#10
John Stakes Major Player Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 558	Re: would this be wrong Love the timecode idea. I do this sometimes...no idea why I don't do it all the time! Also like the Square card reader Craig mentioned. Well we know the preventitive measure to be taken in the future...no payment = no product. But for the current situation, I would not recommend taking the video down. If it was your account, different story. I would just contact them using whichever method you usually use. Phonecalls are best but if they don't respond to a text they aren't picking up a phone call (been there)! If they don't pay in 30 days, and you still feel the same way, you might consider contacting youtube. Sticky situation and as someone else mentioned just handle it case by case...learning along the way. JS