Fee breakdown, shoot and edit at DVinfo.net

Darryn Carroll · December 19th, 2012, 12:00 PM

Hello all, thought I would gather some opinions from the experts. I agreed to do a video for a business, 4 hours on site, 4 interviewed guests, about an hours worth of total footage that will edit down to about 4 minutes. I agreed to $800 and its an hours drive. They had some issues on their end, 2 of the guests did not show and want to rehire me to come back a second time to shoot and add to the video. They were totally cool and know the issue is on their end, I am just trying to figure out whats fair for both of us. Any thoughts?

Craig Seeman · December 19th, 2012, 12:58 PM

You should have a formula for figuring out your rate.

I'd argue that it's another "4 hour" half day.
My guess is your billing rate for the edit isn't changing since you calculated that based on the 4 interviews and the final product. This is another shoot day (half day if that's how you're calculating) though.

It depends on whether you're billing one day shoot and one day edit or one day shoot and five days editing for example. You make no mention what portion of the breakdown is editing.

I do that in my contracts just to make it clear for such situations.

If it's one day shoot one day edit then billing another $400 for the shoot would be reasonable IMHO.

Mike Watson · December 19th, 2012, 01:57 PM

I agree with everything said above.

I will add that once I set "my rate", I stopped having to post questions and ask friends about what I should charge for various things, and I stopped laying awake at night wondering whether I was going to get called out for charging too much. Now, I just have my rate. You can either hire me and pay it, or not hire me. I know that we both think it's fair because I agreed to charge it and you agreed to pay it. Poof! Fair.

I agree that $400 is a fair price to shoot another half day.

Allan Black · December 19th, 2012, 02:45 PM

Sounds like they didn't set it up right if 50% of the talent went missing, the alarm's going off.

I'd find out if they've coerced those 2 guests into reappearing or do they have new interviewees.
You don't want to get in the same situation with another $400 fee.

Make sure the person who signs the cheques attends the interview sessions.

Cheers.

Craig Seeman · December 19th, 2012, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Allan Black

Make sure the person who signs the cheques attends the interview sessions.

Cheers.

Or make sure the signed cheque is in attendance and in your hand. These days I now take credit cards as well to move that part along. There's nothing like a client ditching a project or attempting to renegotiate in an attempt to withhold part of the payment.

My own policy would be to have payment ready for that portion of the job on the day of the shoot or otherwise not to proceed with the next portion until the previous portion has been paid for. I may not do that in every case but I'd play cautious with a client that books a shoot and half the talent doesn't show up. It's not that they're deliberately trying to pull anything but, just like a poor job interview, it shows some disorganization in their business practices and I'd be on the defensive guarding my income.

Don Bloom · December 19th, 2012, 04:34 PM

This has happened to before as well and that's why I have everything in writing...signed and sealed! I learned a long time ago that when doing intrviews like this not everyone will show on time if at all so in my service agreement I have my charge to the client for addition time on the appointed day and what the charge would be if I have to come back on another day to finish the job due to their lack of planning to someone not showing up as scheduled.
I did a job for a law firm a few years ago where everyone of the lawyers was to sit before the camera and do about a 2 minute bio of themselves. I took the notes, wrote the scripts, set it up for the prompter, hired a ADMIN to keep track of everyone, worked with their HR dept to make a lst of when and who was coming in at what appointed time. It was supposed to be a 3 day shoot schedule. It turned out to be 5 since some of the good folks suddenly had very important meetings, court, whatever. Frankly, I didn't care since I was getting paid a day rate for shooting and had written in my service agreement basically, that any delays in shooting were not my problem and that each additional day of shooting would be $XXX number of dollars.
They signed it although they did try to convince me not to charge as much for extra days. (it didn't work). If I hadn't had something in writing, it might have turned out that I would have made far less money and gotten into a discussion with the firm.
Like my lawyer told me 25 years ago...if it ain't in writing, it ain't!

Allan Black · December 19th, 2012, 05:28 PM

I agree with all of that guys, and that's always the way to go.

But in a practical sense, this job has already started, he's already recorded 2 interviews and the client is apparently 'totally cool' with it.
It's too late to present any contract now.

From here on Darryn, I'd be careful of everything at the client end, eg: you don't want someone coming back from holidays with different ideas
on the production, or who wants their own outfit to edit it.

If you haven't set up a payment arrangement, present the final $1200 invoice just after you record and play these last 2 interviews back to the client,
and they all agree with them. Play them the first two interviews too, seal the whole thing up, no ifs or buts.

Your invoice should read 'COD' on delivery of the first DVD and you should go there again to present it on an agreed date. Don't mail anything.
Next time follow the good advice above :)

Cheers.

Darryn Carroll · December 20th, 2012, 01:53 PM

Thank you all, you have put my wheels in motion once again!

December 19th, 2012, 12:00 PM	#1
Darryn Carroll Major Player Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Norwood, MA Posts: 255	Fee breakdown, shoot and edit Hello all, thought I would gather some opinions from the experts. I agreed to do a video for a business, 4 hours on site, 4 interviewed guests, about an hours worth of total footage that will edit down to about 4 minutes. I agreed to $800 and its an hours drive. They had some issues on their end, 2 of the guests did not show and want to rehire me to come back a second time to shoot and add to the video. They were totally cool and know the issue is on their end, I am just trying to figure out whats fair for both of us. Any thoughts?

December 19th, 2012, 12:58 PM	#2
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	Re: Fee breakdown, shoot and edit You should have a formula for figuring out your rate. I'd argue that it's another "4 hour" half day. My guess is your billing rate for the edit isn't changing since you calculated that based on the 4 interviews and the final product. This is another shoot day (half day if that's how you're calculating) though. It depends on whether you're billing one day shoot and one day edit or one day shoot and five days editing for example. You make no mention what portion of the breakdown is editing. I do that in my contracts just to make it clear for such situations. If it's one day shoot one day edit then billing another $400 for the shoot would be reasonable IMHO.

December 19th, 2012, 01:57 PM	#3
Mike Watson Trustee Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 1,082	Re: Fee breakdown, shoot and edit I agree with everything said above. I will add that once I set "my rate", I stopped having to post questions and ask friends about what I should charge for various things, and I stopped laying awake at night wondering whether I was going to get called out for charging too much. Now, I just have my rate. You can either hire me and pay it, or not hire me. I know that we both think it's fair because I agreed to charge it and you agreed to pay it. Poof! Fair. I agree that $400 is a fair price to shoot another half day.

December 19th, 2012, 02:45 PM	#4
Allan Black Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Sydney. Posts: 2,887	Re: Fee breakdown, shoot and edit Sounds like they didn't set it up right if 50% of the talent went missing, the alarm's going off. I'd find out if they've coerced those 2 guests into reappearing or do they have new interviewees. You don't want to get in the same situation with another $400 fee. Make sure the person who signs the cheques attends the interview sessions. Cheers. __________________ Drink more tap water. On admission at Sydney hospitals more than 5% of day patients are de-hydrated.

December 19th, 2012, 04:34 PM	#6
Don Bloom Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,609	Re: Fee breakdown, shoot and edit This has happened to before as well and that's why I have everything in writing...signed and sealed! I learned a long time ago that when doing intrviews like this not everyone will show on time if at all so in my service agreement I have my charge to the client for addition time on the appointed day and what the charge would be if I have to come back on another day to finish the job due to their lack of planning to someone not showing up as scheduled. I did a job for a law firm a few years ago where everyone of the lawyers was to sit before the camera and do about a 2 minute bio of themselves. I took the notes, wrote the scripts, set it up for the prompter, hired a ADMIN to keep track of everyone, worked with their HR dept to make a lst of when and who was coming in at what appointed time. It was supposed to be a 3 day shoot schedule. It turned out to be 5 since some of the good folks suddenly had very important meetings, court, whatever. Frankly, I didn't care since I was getting paid a day rate for shooting and had written in my service agreement basically, that any delays in shooting were not my problem and that each additional day of shooting would be $XXX number of dollars. They signed it although they did try to convince me not to charge as much for extra days. (it didn't work). If I hadn't had something in writing, it might have turned out that I would have made far less money and gotten into a discussion with the firm. Like my lawyer told me 25 years ago...if it ain't in writing, it ain't! __________________ What do I know? I'm just a video-O-grafer. Don

December 19th, 2012, 05:28 PM	#7
Allan Black Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Sydney. Posts: 2,887	Re: Fee breakdown, shoot and edit I agree with all of that guys, and that's always the way to go. But in a practical sense, this job has already started, he's already recorded 2 interviews and the client is apparently 'totally cool' with it. It's too late to present any contract now. From here on Darryn, I'd be careful of everything at the client end, eg: you don't want someone coming back from holidays with different ideas on the production, or who wants their own outfit to edit it. If you haven't set up a payment arrangement, present the final $1200 invoice just after you record and play these last 2 interviews back to the client, and they all agree with them. Play them the first two interviews too, seal the whole thing up, no ifs or buts. Your invoice should read 'COD' on delivery of the first DVD and you should go there again to present it on an agreed date. Don't mail anything. Next time follow the good advice above :) Cheers. __________________ Drink more tap water. On admission at Sydney hospitals more than 5% of day patients are de-hydrated.

December 20th, 2012, 01:53 PM	#8
Darryn Carroll Major Player Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Norwood, MA Posts: 255	Re: Fee breakdown, shoot and edit Thank you all, you have put my wheels in motion once again!