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-   -   Legal Deposition Camera Recommendations (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/taking-care-business/514492-legal-deposition-camera-recommendations.html)

Andrew Clark March 20th, 2013 12:02 AM
Re: Legal Deposition Camera Recommendations
 
BTW, does anybody here own or has used the Panny 160a?

As per Ervin's suggestion list of camera's, (and thanks again for that extensive list of cams Ervin!!) I am quite interested to hear any first had experiences about it. Looks great in that it would work quite well for other events.

Ervin Farkas March 20th, 2013 07:16 PM
Re: Legal Deposition Camera Recommendations
 
Andrew,

let me chime in although I don't know that camera - it is the TOP recommended camera on a dedicated legal videography forum. Very few of us legal videogs here... if you want to ask specific questions about it related to legal video, I can direct you to the forum operated by the video wing of the National Court Reporter Association. Contact me by private message.

John Doody September 3rd, 2013 11:43 AM
Re: Legal Deposition Camera Recommendations
 
Little late to the party here, but here is a good resource for a lot of legal video info for those that are still looking-
Legal Media Forum

You can also visit the NCRA or AGCV websites for more certification information for legal videographers.
The CLVS Certification Process - Certification & Training - NCRA
Home

The date/time placement issue with the Panasonic AC160, now 160A, has been addressed with camera's latest update. I have recently added the Panny 160A to my kit. It's a great tool for the job, but if you are only doing depositions, it's probably a bit more than what you really need. You don't necessarily need the LPCM audio, SDI output, and variable frame rate (def.not for legal video) the AC130A is also a very good choice & will save you hundreds over the 160A.

Andrew Clark September 4th, 2013 11:07 PM
Re: Legal Deposition Camera Recommendations
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Doody (Post 1811127)
Little late to the party here, but here is a good resource for a lot of legal video info for those that are still looking-
Legal Media Forum
*** Thanks for that John; but that forum seems not to have too much activity; not like here on DV Info.!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Doody (Post 1811127)
You can also visit the NCRA or AGCV websites for more certification information for legal videographers.
The CLVS Certification Process - Certification & Training - NCRA
Home
*** I've visited and checked on those sites as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Doody (Post 1811127)
The date/time placement issue with the Panasonic AC160, now 160A, has been addressed with camera's latest update. I have recently added the Panny 160A to my kit. It's a great tool for the job, but if you are only doing depositions, it's probably a bit more than what you really need. You don't necessarily need the LPCM audio, SDI output, and variable frame rate (def.not for legal video) the AC130A is also a very good choice & will save you hundreds over the 160A.
*** How do you like this cam? Is the "manual" zoom ring a true manual zoom; meaning not "laggy" like some other cams on the market? Seems like a versatile cam for utilizing for other events as well.

John Doody September 5th, 2013 11:47 PM
Re: Legal Deposition Camera Recommendations
 
I've only had my 160A for a couple weeks, so I'm still testing things out before I take it on a job. I'm pretty happy with the choice, but I do wish it could do even better in low light than it does. Pipe dream I'm sure for a 1/3" sensor camera. As far as the manual zoom, it does feel like there's a slight lag. I find it a bit annoying to try to gauge it correctly going slowly. Maybe it's just a matter of getting used to it. I'll be using the servo setting mostly for my work, so it really isn't a big deal to me. I wish I could do away with the manual/servo switch altogether, though, but that's just my preference. One surprise to me was that the time only displays in military time. It's not a huge deal, but I'd rather have the ol' AM/PM format.

Clayton Moore January 3rd, 2014 02:41 PM
Re: Legal Deposition Camera Recommendations
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Barnett (Post 1780638)
Don't worry too much about quality. HD is not needed & probably won't be for a very long time... Courtrooms tend to have older equipment & it's doubtful many US Courts will upgrade to HDTV's & Blu Ray any time soon. Although if you plan on using this camera for your own recreation (weddings, hobby etc), you should get something as good as you need or want for that. Otherwise, really just find something reliable that works.

You DEFINITELY will need to keep a backup, AnD have a shooting method to two formats. Just in case something goes wrong. Imagine your SD card fails, or you erase it by mistake or misplace it. DVD is a good backup, and alot of people prefer it so you probably wanna look down that road. Think about this, if you have the video on USB or SD card, how will you get it to the lawfirm/court reporting firm? Mail it?? Who's paying for the card/USB, you?? Do you expect them to mail it back to you? And even though there's way of probably securing sending them over the internet, most people you deal with wouldn't trust it. For privacy/security concerns. These things are pretty secure & confidential. Plus, most just arent' set up for it, so don't plan on being the first high tech videographer able to Dropbox the file that evening, and expect them to change their format. You'll likely be responded to with "That's ok, just send us the DVD" no matter how much sense in the world your way sounds. Sometimes you just go with the flow.

My honest opinion, is that the field will likely goto virtual streaming in several years. Alot of times lawyers fly in from out of state, building up high expense fees. Already I've had only a couple where while I videotaped the dep, an attorney was questioning via Skype type technology, where he can view the deponent from the laptops webcam. Others are often on only via conference call (usually where the case or deponent doesn't warrant spending alot of time/travel). My guess is in a matter of years it will be alot of virtual videoconferencing with it being recorded virtually as well. Just my guess, but on the other hand that could open up a new position right there, somehow.

Just something to keep in mind. I don't think there's a long term market for professional HD videocameras in the market, when the ability of a laptop webcam may soon suffice. Just my $.02

Exactly right David. Virtual - digital thats inevitable.

The elephant in the room question is, will the Government (court system) have enough buying power to keep optical media alive as a format after people like Adobe and Apple have already walked away from developing the tools specifically designed to do that. Also you can hardly find a printer for direct to DVD/CD printing anymore..and DVD recorder's will soon be something you can only get at a yard sale.

Ervin Farkas January 5th, 2014 10:48 AM
Re: Legal Deposition Camera Recommendations
 
What keeps this industry in the past is not courtroom technology - only a low percentage of our legal deposition videos make it into a real court room. What keeps us still working with physical media is our clients themselves, yes, the lawyers. You may work for a different age group but in my experience, in the metro Atlanta area, the average lawyer has no idea about digital formats. Invariably, when asked what format they want the video in, first they have no clue what formats are available, and second, when presented with the available formats, most of them say "just send me a DVD". Even with rush jobs when they need the video "yesterday", and I offer them free internet upload, they choose the expensive overnight UPS of a disc.

The technically inclined law professional is still a rarity today. We are ready to move to the next level, but what's the use if (almost) no one is ready on the receiving end?

And I disagree with the statement that the internet will replace the legal videographer. By most state's standards, video recorded by counsel is not admissible, because counsel is not a disinterested third party - the legal videographer is! So Skype et al may save the lawyer a trip, but he will still need a legal videographer on location to videotape the testimony. Video conferencing has been around for over a decade now, but it has not impacted the legal videography business itself in the sens that it would steal part of the business, it just added more complexity to it. To a certain degree it has even increased our business volume because depositions that otherwise would have been simply skipped due to travel expenses, can now be taken for a lot less using video conferencing. Being asked to live stream in addition to video taping adds more work, but it also adds more to the bill you send out at the end of the day.

IMHO anyway... feel free to disagree - only good things can come out of a civilised exchange of opinions.

Clayton Moore January 11th, 2014 09:57 PM
Re: Legal Deposition Camera Recommendations
 
Regarding audio, is there any reason why you cannot use a few hand held cardioid microphones on small desktop stands rather then lav mikes?

Ervin Farkas January 11th, 2014 11:05 PM
Re: Legal Deposition Camera Recommendations
 
Yes, plenty of reasons!

The most important reason: the table will be full of documents, laptop computers, coffee mugs, water bottles, etc. - there will be literally no room for anything else.

The other, perhaps equally important reason: audio quality. A legal deposition is not public speech, most of the time those involved speak at a low voice. Attorneys constantly shuffle their papers, even with lavalier microphones just a few inches away from their mouths, audio is sometimes challenging. There is no way you can make sure that they will stay in front of your microphone, let alone close to it.

What differentiates a good deposition video from a mediocre one IS AUDIO! Some of your video will have to be synced to the transcript, and that's done automatically by extracting the audio and passing it through voice recognition software - just imagine what will happen if your audio is anything less than perfect!

If you must do shortcuts to save money, do it anywhere else, use a cheap camera, whatever... but DO NOT skimp on good lavalier mics and a quality mixer!!!

Tim Polster January 13th, 2014 09:28 AM
Re: Legal Deposition Camera Recommendations
 
Ervin is right on with all he is saying. Audio is most important and SD is still fine in this world. Actually SD is a benefit because often instant turnaround is needed.

If the Panasonic AC160 has Firewire ouput it is probably the best choice for legal depositions. Running Firewire into a DVD recorder is about the best you can do for depositions.

Tony McCall July 8th, 2014 10:45 AM
Re: Legal Deposition Camera Recommendations
 
Regarding DVD recorders, are there specific brands/models that are best to use for reliability, functionality, and fast turn-around time of the depositions onto DVDs?

Tim Polster July 8th, 2014 11:20 AM
Re: Legal Deposition Camera Recommendations
 
I have always thought Pioneer is the go to brand for anything related to disc burning.

Ervin Farkas July 8th, 2014 11:29 AM
Re: Legal Deposition Camera Recommendations
 
The problem is, DVD recorders are kind of gone! B & H listed the Toshiba DR430 (the most popular recorder the last few years) as no longer available just a couple of weeks ago.

If you look around really fast, you might still find one at some other store. DVD as delivery method is going out the door very fast - it will still be around in the legal video industry for a while because of incredible inertia, but it will eventually be replaced by online delivery.

Stephen Swift December 31st, 2014 07:10 AM
Re: Legal Deposition Camera Recommendations
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ervin Farkas (Post 1781309)
Yes, you can use audio/video outputs to record to a backup device, or even make that your primary recorder and use the internal SD card as backup.


Sadly all manufacturers left this field, only Panasonic has current models that do date/time code overlay. Some older Sony models still available also fit the bill.

Here's a list from another fora, one specialized in legal video work:

Panasonic AG-HMC80 - SD/HD to SDHC card, tapeless capture, SD out via Firewire
Panasonic AG-HMC150 - HD only to SDHC card, tapeless capture, SD out via HDMI selection
Panasonic AG-AC130 - SD/HD to SDXC/SDHC cards, tapeless capture, SD out via Firewire, HDMI Out
Panasonic AG-AC160 - SD/HD to SDXC/SDHC cards, tapeless capture, SD out via Firewire, HDMI Out, HD-SDI Out
Panasonic AG-HPX170 - SD/HD to P2 card, tapeless capture, SD out via Firewire, HDMI Out, HD-SDI Out
Panasonic AG-HPX250 - SD/HD to P2 cards, tapeless capture, SD out via Firewire, HDMI Out, HD-SDI Out

Sony HVR-Z5U - SD/HD out to MiniDV tape / tapeless capture, SD out via Firewire, HDMI out, Interchangeable Lens
Sony HVR-Z7U - SD/HD out to MiniDV tape / tapeless capture, SD out via Firewire, HDMI out, Interchangeable Lens
Sony HXR NX5U - SD/HD to SDHC card / tapeless capture, HDMI out, SD capture

To your other question, it is very rare that you need to deliver your video at the end of the deposition.
Can you tell me the forum this came from please, I am curious if this list has been updated. Many of these cams are not available now.

Ervin Farkas December 31st, 2014 08:38 AM
Re: Legal Deposition Camera Recommendations
 
Unfortunately that forum is now gone.

Will try to get the updated list from the author... might be a few days.

Ervin Farkas January 5th, 2015 10:34 AM
Re: Legal Deposition Camera Recommendations
 
And here is the updated list: Wish List - B&H Photo Video

The owner of the list (no, it's not me) makes an effort to keep this up to date, but no guarantees.

I hope this helps.

Terry Wall March 24th, 2015 12:02 PM
Re: Legal Deposition Camera Recommendations
 
Hey there, Ervin, thanks so much for the updated list of cameras! I am picking up a Sony PXW-X70 and was delighted to see that it's on the list! And as you say, audio is (close to) everything, and I've got lots of mics and a nice compact mixer, so it's off to the deposition, early in April!

Thanks again!

Ervin Farkas March 24th, 2015 12:05 PM
Re: Legal Deposition Camera Recommendations
 
Good luck with your legal videos!

Brian Terrinoni May 20th, 2015 09:33 AM
Re: Legal Deposition Camera Recommendations
 
Anyone using the hc-x1000 for legal video? Reviews ?

Ervin Farkas May 20th, 2015 09:51 AM
Re: Legal Deposition Camera Recommendations
 
The Panasonic HC-X1000 is an acceptable camera for legal videography, meaning that it fulfills the minimum requirements like date and time display on the screen, outputs for main and backup recording, etc.

As far as tech specs and quality in general... not so good. Definitely fulfills your curiosity for 4K (do you really have a legitimate use for that?), but other than that, it's lousy in low light (very small sensor), has a poor dynamic range, consumer plastic "feel".

IMHO you can spend $3K much better by purchasing an AG-130 or add $600 and buy the best overall AG-160 - you will get a much higher value for your money (the 160 has a $400 rebate this and next month).

Again, IMHO...

Brian Terrinoni May 20th, 2015 03:00 PM
Re: Legal Deposition Camera Recommendations
 
Thanks for the response! I currently shoot on an HMC150. While I love it, it is just getting to outdated. Legal video is my primary source of income so that comes first. But i also do some sports and events. So it would be nice to have a camera that shoots better quality. I have looked at the AC130 & 160 but the camera is just HUGE! would the ac130 be worth the upgrade of the hmc150? anything else you recommend?

Ervin Farkas May 20th, 2015 07:24 PM
Re: Legal Deposition Camera Recommendations
 
Yes, the 130 is better in pretty much any way.

For the full list of cameras that fulfill the requirements, scroll up a few posts.

Darryn Carroll May 5th, 2016 03:08 PM
Re: Legal Deposition Camera Recommendations
 
Am capturing via laptop with Hauppauge PV device and backup is recording to 2 SD cards simultaneously. Not in love with the Hauppauge, anyone run a similar setup using a different (and hopefully better) capture device?


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