How not to get scammed when buying from online auction sites
 

First the bad news
There are more ways to get ripped off when buying and selling over the internet than ever before. The good news is that with a little common sense, most are avoidable.

The great playground of the modern fraud artist has been Ebay. Fueled by greed, buyers have been lured into lowball auctions on high end items. With their savings sent overseas via Western Union, buyers waited patiently on their doorsteps, fake UPS tracking numbers in hand, never to have that expensive new toy arrive. Although Ebay has been cracking down efficiently, it is still a buyer beware world out there. While there are many other auction sites out there, the following red flags should apply to any purchase you make.

High end items at low dollar prices.
Understand this: we are all greedy, and we want as much money for our stuff as possible. This applies to Ebay sellers as well as everyone else. When you see someone selling a brand new video camera for half the price of other auctions, you need to ask yourself why. It doesn’t cost him anything to raise the price, so why should he want to sell it for less? It’s common sense, yet we are often blinded by the opportunity to snag a deal that we can all brag to our friends about. You need to remember one time tested saying: “If it is too good to be true, it probably is.”
Look for them hawking brand new items at ridiculous discounts. High end electronics, video cameras, still cameras, and laptops are always popular items.

Zero feedback/New Users
On Ebay, you’d be crazy to send thousands of dollars to someone who just registered, even if it is the bargain of the year. Remember, it’s only the bargain of the year if what you buy actually shows up. Its difficult enough trust people with a hundred transactions with thousands of dollars, so why, no matter how cheap, would you trust someone who has no history at all? Unless you can pay in person, and pick it up in person, don’t bother with zero feedback sellers. They pop up new ones just as fast as Ebay shuts them down.

Odd Accounts
There are other ways you can get taken, as con artists sometimes get a hold of valid Ebay accounts. When considering a purchase, look into the seller’s history. If they haven’t been active for a year, and are suddenly selling five new Rolex watches, you should be cautious.
Although rare, a serious scammer can set up an account to sell multiple cheap items in order to get enough feedback to draw buyers into a thousand dollar item. If the seller has a bunch of feedback from selling $0.99 stickers but is now listing $5000 video cameras for $1500 each, use extreme caution.

Seller’s Location
Would you seriously buy a Rolex from Hong Kong for any price and think it’s real?

Would you really wire money to Croatia for a new video Ipod at a quarter of the price?

Here’s the truth. If these people had legitimate items to sell, they’d be selling them over there. They are trying to get your overseas money because they know there is absolutely nothing you can do to get it back once they’ve got it. Even if you get scammed out of $10,000 are you really going to track down some scumbag in the middle of Hong Kong?

Simply buying only within North America or the UK will likely cut your chances of getting ripped off by at least 50%. Not all foreign sellers are rip-offs, but the further out you go culturally, the higher your risk gets.

Anyone Traveling
If you ever read anything like “I’m from the US, but currently traveling in France,” forget it immediately. Even if someone is from North Carolina, but traveling in South Carolina, forget it. It is almost always trouble. Scammers use traveling as an excuse as to why they haven’t been able to ship you your package three months after you have paid. They’ll keep you on the hook as long as possible to keep you from going to the authorities, and then they’ll eventually disappear.

Payment
Crooks love Western Union money transfers, since it's instant and mostly untraceable, but others will take money orders, especially if they are overseas. They generally will not accept Paypal or any form of credit card payment, as it offers you some protection. If you are serious about buying online, only use your credit card and keep up to date on what kind of protection they offer. If paying by Paypal, only use funds taken from your credit card. Don’t make big purchased funded by your bank account or your Paypal balance, as these aren’t nearly as protected, despite what Paypal says.

Escrow
Escrow used to be the safety net you could rely on. Then crooks began setting up fake escrow services and continued on stealing as happily as before.
Here’s reality. Real sellers don’t use escrow. They take your money up front. Then they ship you the package. That’s the way it’s done. They have the goods so they make the rules. If you want to use escrow and they agree to it, make sure it is an escrow service of your choice, not the seller’s.

Auction Layouts
The layout of the auction can often be a clue. Look for a bunch of obviously copied info from the manufacturer’s website, as well as stock pictures of the item. There is rarely any other info in the auction. Does that make any sense? If you were really selling something expensive, wouldn’t you really want to give buyer as much info as possible?

Breaking The Rules
Watch out for anyone who offers to break the rules for you when there is nothing in it for them. Someone who offers to end the auction early for a lower price is someone who is agreeing to give up money. No one gives up money. Anyone who approaches you outside the system is instantly suspect. If they were legit, they’d be selling legitimately.

Selling Online
Selling online has become almost as dangerous as buying. There are lots of scams and more happening every day. Buyers using fake or stolen credit cards or jacked Paypal accounts are just the start. They’ve also been faking money orders, so that once the bank finally cashes it through; you’ve long since sent them your item.

Some of the scams have become more elaborate, where they overpay you for the item, and then get you to refund the extra by money order, while having used a fake credit card to send the funds in the first place. By the time the credit card company dings you for the amount you sold your item for, you’ve already send them a refund... and the item.

The only way to be absolutely sure that the sale is legit is to wait for the money to clear out of your bank. Most buyers aren’t happy to wait that long, so it’s always a roll of the dice.

Remember This
As internet technology evolves, criminals will find news ways of exploiting the innocent. But remember one thing, your best protection is not the legal system, it is simply your common sense. Never forget the golden rule of online buying “if it looks to good to be true, it probably is.”

Of course, you can avoid these problems altogether by making your purchases from our highly trusted,
widely recognized and deeply valued DV Info Net Sponsors.

See http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/...010918362.html for a recent Ebay Australia experience.

My brother who is an ebay service rep has passed on a report of a scam. It follows the pattern of replicating an official looking eBay page but its purpose is to get your credit card or banking information. To protect yourself, always check to see if the page is actually hosted by eBay.

eBay will also never send an unsolicited email to a customer asking for a verification of their personal details.

I just got sammed on ebay. I will never use it again and i will never recommend it to any one!

OK here is what happened I won an auction for camera on ebay (vx2000) on 8-17-03 The seller was tippecanoe_ites (nikki brindle). It was one of those presale auctions where you receive your camera in 4-6 weeks. I checked previous feed back and every one received there camera and was happy. My total came to $1915.00. I paid with a money order. Next thing you know its 4 weeks later. I asked her where my camera is and she says it will be here by the 6th week guaranteed. Now its the 6 th and here supplier is on a bit of delay. 6 weeks turns into two months and then just about 3 months and I had it. I said screw it I'll get a gl2 instead direct from b&h. So I started emailing asking for my refund. I was not getting any response. I started to wonder because Nikki was very good with replying to my emails and she would always respond like the same day. So I started calling her company White Wolf Designs. I got a recording saying that there systems were down and leave all your info and they would get back to you. Well, I kept calling and calling no response and no emails. They claimed that they had a system failure. Well, next thing you know I get home form work and I find out she was arrested for Internet fraud my jaw dropped. Currently I am out my money and it is not looking good. I have reported this to ebay,square trade, FBI, and the Warsaw police. My uncle is a lawyer and we are deciding what to do. Currently she is out on bail. The FBI has taking over the case. The sad thing is I am 17 and I have saved for ever for this camera and I really mean for ever. I worked making $5.15 hour and also paying for gas for my car you can imagine how long it took me to save. Well, it is sad and its not looking good. Ebay can only give $175. WOW that's a lot what about my other $1740.00. Well, I am waiting to see what happens and I will put some links on the here so every one can check it out. I will never do anything on ebay ever again.NEVER! I would not recommend to any one I don't care about the legit people that are out there just don't do it. I should have just order from B&H. My plan was with the money I save on the camera I'll get my editing PC. Well, I have the PC but no camera and now I am broke. There is really no point of even having this computer now. Alls I want is my money back to get a GL2 I regret my decision.


http://www.timeswrsw.com/N1015033.HTM

http://www.philterhouse.com/nikki.html

http://www.chatarea.com/NikkiBrindle.f46942

Sorry to hear about your situation. That sucks pretty hard.
Again, you can never go wrong with one of the forum's sponsors, and never EVER pay for anything over the internet with anything but a credit card.

That's a very painful story, Joel. I'm very sorry for your misfortune and feel your pain and disappointment. Really.

I nearly had a similar calamity on eBay but was fortunate in getting my payment returned. Since then I have sworn off eBay entirely. It just does not seem worth the hassle and risk.

It may not be much consolation to you now, but put the experience in a painful life-lesson category. All you (may have) lost was money, something ultimately very replaceable.

Well for being 17 this really is a set back for me. Well i dont no what to do. Ill just ill just wait it out and hope to get my money back doubt it will happen :*(

Well, I got a little money back to update everyone $1,000 from my parents insurance and $175 form ebay. This maybe a little far fetched but is there any possibility that or sponsors could help me out on a deal with a gl2? Maybe I am I dreaming to much from what happened.

You're a lucky fellow, Joel.

Hi Joel, I am happy to hear that you have recovered some of your money. I think that eBay is a really good place to find deals, but we must be really careful. There is always some signs to know if it is a fraud.

Your budget is now a littlebit lower but you can perhaps find a good used camera at this price.

Take a look on the "Private Classifieds" forum.
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...threadid=17157

This guy is selling a TRV-950 at a fair price ...

Hi Joel,

Our sponsors already offer excellent deals at real-world prices. Although they would quickly go broke if they bent over backwards for everyone who's ever been burned by Ebay, you can still find very good (that is, competitive and realistic) prices through them. Hope this helps,

lol i no iam not goign to get a camera that cheap i am goign to cough up more money i just wanted to no if there was something they could do for me but i doubt it. I will just have to go to zotz.

Hi Gang, this is my first real post after lurking for a long while.

Firstly Ebay is great, I have made this video production project of mine some what of a social experiment with the internet culture. 90% of all of my equipment that I am currently using is from eBay and I've only been burned badly once, with a no show item.

My pd-100 needed a little bit of repairing but it was still worth the hassles. Its a sweet little camera.

Anyway I wanted to point out the other end of eBay and that is selling. A friend tried to sell an XL1 packeage and 99% of the equiries were from Malaysia wanting to buy the gear outside of eBay!

They are willing to use "payapl" which is interesting. We have concluded that they must be using "hacked" accounts to pay for items. That or the laws in these countries make it easy for scammers to do their dirty work.
Many of the legit sellers will not ship to Malaysia and Singapore because of that.

To make a short story long, eBay is a great way to sell some of your older gear but make sure that your buyer is not in the "pacific rim" countries i.e. Singapore, Malaysia etc.

Thanks for all the info I've been gleaming from the site, I hope to post my DVcam setup once I work out the bugs.

Cheers to all!

Chris H.

I don't think you're actually allowed to buy things outside of e-bay auctions. Certainly not under UK law. Auctions work because there is an initial, collateral contract from the seller to accept the highest bid (though this can be excluded if it's an auction with a reserve and the reserve is not met), if he does not accept the bid then he is in breach of that contract and liable to you for damages. The collateral contract can include other terms, such as a stipulation that people with a low feedback rating can't bid, etc, but I'm pretty sure any attempt to "reserve the right to withdraw the item" as some people seem to do, is a breach of the Unfair Contract Terms Act. Not completely sure about that one, but I'll find out. I must stress this is UK law, and may not apply in the US.

On the subject of e-bay; I've used it for lots of things and never had any problems; but I do steer clear of anyone even remotely unlegit. It's particularly good for tripods I find.

Kieran

Well, I bought my XL1 on eBay (used, from a pawnshop in Texas), plus a host of other items, such as several Panasonic editing VTRs, audio accessories, etc.

But it is important to be vigilant, as these stories show. And I have seen these overseas fraud artists at work, most recently when I was looking for an Apple PowerBook (which I found on eBay, a 1-year-old 15" model from a music engineer in California, and it still had over a year of the AppleCare warranty left on it, which I transferred and actually wound up using).

These guys sure enough operate out of Europe, want you to use Western Union money orders, fracture the English language and have prices that are not to be believed. And their feedback was all for little paltry transactions (usually as buyer, BTW) in petty merchandise having nothing to do with electronics. Those clues were enough for me to stay away, and I noticed after putting the items on my watch list that they disappeared from auction pretty quickly.

well i didnt fall for that kind of scam i bought from a company in indiana that just went under i guess or the owner (nikki brindle)i did loose over 700 for my vx got a little back from ebay and insurenace but i will never again use ebay


http://www.philterhouse.com/nikki.html

check out this site for further details on nikki

So true...
 

I just happened to have taken a look at this thread before venturing out to try and buy a camera on Ebay. I was out bid for the camera I wanted. However, the next morning when I went to work, I got this email from some dude i believe to be one of these scammers we're discussing. I'm not entirely sure if he is or not, but my instincts tell me to stay away. I mean who the hell sells a brand new GL1 for $800?

************
From: <marrttol@yahoo.com>
To: Kenneth Emeson
Date: Tuesday - January 20, 2004 6:36 PM
Subject: Poser une question au vendeur -- Objet n° 2980671167
Mime.822 (2117 bytes) [View] [Save As]

Hello ,
I'm Toti Battisti from London U.K, please escuse me that i've
contact you like this .. i sow that you are interested to buy
CANON GL1 DIGITAL CAMCORDER - BRAND NEW ,
i have the same product and the price for one unit is
800 $ , i will be glad to waiting your reply to start a fast deal .
My best regards !
Toti Battisti
63 Witon Way Hackney
London E8 1BG
United Kingdom

Kenny, skip it. First off, it's too cheap for a GL1 (if thats US$).
Plus if he is contacting you outside Ebay, thats a bad sign. Honest people don't do that.
How can the GL1 be brand new? They stopped making them last year.

Ask him if he takes Paypal, see what kind of payment he will take. That is the biggest giveaway.

Good instincts, Kenny. Dylan is right. I mean, you can get a good deal on a GL1, but if the price sounds too good that's a dead giveaway. Of course, eBay sellers are not all like Nikki Brindle or those Euroscammers...in fact some major dealers even have an eBay sales department. Just know who you are dealing with, and NEVER trust those guys who try to sell outside of the eBay system.

ya bvecarefull for nikki brindles she got me good

I got screwed TWICE when i was trying to buy an XL1s. Yes, twice... once from some guy from Romania (hey, it was a good deal), luckily i got away with paying him only half. The second from some guy in Florida. I'm in the process of getting my money back, though because i paid with a credit card through PayPal.
One definate way to spot a scam is if the starting price or buy it now price is $1200-$1600. For some reason, they always start or sell at that price. This is a common occurance at Amazon.com. Check out their "new & used" section of XL1s'. At one point there were three XL1s' going all for less than $2K and, wouldn't you know, all the users were "just launched". I'm sure i'm repeating some stuff people have already said, but its for your own good.
Good luck to you all who are planning on purchasing through an auction site (or amazon)!

KENNY- tell him you'll pay him once you get the camera. COD (cash on delivery). He'll probably ask you to pay with Western Union or some other wire service. DON'T DO IT! And if he really lived in the UK, he wouldn't have problems typing in English. And he wants a "fast deal". Haha.

I had a similar experience... almost made my twice-screwage turn to thrice. He said he lived in oregon, but told me to send the money via a wire to somebody who lived in the UK. I smacked him (cybersmack that is) and ran away. He said he needed the money fast because his sister got in a car crash in Romania and needed the money to pay for her medical stuff. Heh.. Romania. Heard that one before!!


JOEL- don't be afraid of eBay. Its really an awesome service. Just don't buy important, expensive things on it.. ;)

- Gino Terribilini

Well, I would stop short of saying don't buy anything expensive or important on eBay. Especially if the seller is something like "ebaysalesdept@reputableknowndealer.com" Some of our forum's sponsors also sell on ebay, as do some of the other major dealers.

I have also had good luck with some of the pawn shops on ebay, and the ones I have dealt with are very cooperative about returning merchandise if defective. Just don't expect them to have any product expertise on these kinds of equipment, they just buy it and sell it along with many other categories of goods like tools, sporting goods, jewelry, etc.

But the Euroscammers still persist: the dead giveaways are the unrealistic price, the request to send money via Western Union (NEVER, NEVER do this!) and the European address that they want you to send the money to. (BTW, to my friends in the UK and on the Continent, not everyone in Europe is a scammer, but the profile is pretty easy to spot) One more thing, the minute one of them contacts you to sell outside of eBAy, please report it to eBay. I had this happen recently with a seller who was supposedly selling an expensive audio mixer (here again, at a ridiculously low price) , and once I reported it, eBay immediately terminated his (her) membership.

I didn't read through the entire thread so I am not sure if this was suggested before.

I have purchased well over 300 items on Ebay in just over a 3 month period. One of them for over $3,000 and suddenly couldn't get hold of the seller. Well before sending the money I asked and received his HOME phone number and address.

So I simply called the police department in their city and less than 30 minutes later the seller called apologizing PROFUSELY and sent my item next day via Fed Ex.

I have had to call the police 3 times and received my items all three times.

I have heard others say the police didn't want anything to do with it but it is worth a try but do it RIGHT AWAY do not wait weeks after communications break down.

I can't help wondering why bother with such hassle for products that are readily available elsewhere? The allure of a good price fades quickly against such possibilities.

Readily available elsewhere, well that's one thing.

But to buy hard-to-find stuff, eBay is a very powerful resource. Where else would I have found 34-pin cables (essential) for a Panasonic AG-A650 edit controler, without paying outlandish prices thru Pana's parts dept. Or a used Ikegami monitor, or a motor drive for a 20-year-old Olympus SLR.

Plus it can be useful just to know how low you can buy a certain item. For instance, when I brought up the fact that a dealer on eBay was offering a certain price on factory B-stock on a certain microphone, the salesperson at a place where I often call for equipment offered me a comparable price on A-stock. Sold!

Usually though, for normal commercially available items I just click on bhphotovideo.com (a sponsor of this forum) to buy genuine merchandise at legitimate prices from a trustworthy supplier.

<<<-- Originally posted by Ken Tanaka : I can't help wondering why bother with such hassle for products that are readily available elsewhere? The allure of a good price fades quickly against such possibilities. -->>>

That is a pretty BROAD sweeping assumption.

Where are these places where things are readily available certainly not where I live.

Then again I live in Orlando FL and also in NY so perhaps I just don't live in the right place :)

Where in NY, Michael? Anywhere near 9th Ave & 34th St? (a block from Madison Square Garden) If so, go on over to B&H and check out how much they DO have!

Of course, if you want tubes for your 40-year-old Marantz preamp, or a door handle for a 1973 Corvette, you might want to try eBay. Always be careful of the seller. All the guys I buy from take paypal, and I NEVER do Western Union!

Yes I know of B and H.

I was refering to the 300 plus items I bought off of Ebay.

Basically in less than 3 months they have gone up in value by over $10,000 so I like Ebay and if there are a couple problems so be it heck there are problems every where:)

Michael,

I too have bought hundreds of items on eBAy. I know they haven't appreciated in value like your items, but I don't buy anything i would consider collectible or likely to go up in value. Just good deals on appropriate merchandise. Like a used Canon XL1 from a pawn shop...got it cheap sans accessories (then I bought the accessories cheap on eBay).

Or an Apple G4 PowerBook from a music editor/producer, got it with 1.5 years left on the AppleCare warranty, and I use it for both music and video field post-production (so I can put an edit bay in my hotel room or on the table tray at my airliner seat). Half the price of a new one (OK, I know, the new one has a little faster processor).

Or the indestructible Panasonic AG-6200, 6300, 6400, etc. decks that are no longer available new. And other hard-to-find items.

For new, normal, current model merchandise I just contact B&H (a sponsor) or FullCompass (not a sponsor but nice dealers of pro audio/video gear).

Hey guys
This is getting pretty off topic from the intended nature of this thread. I'll leave the current posts up for a few more days so everyone can read them then klenze all of the non-pertinent posts.

Credit Card
 

"If you ever consider making a purchase like this off Ebay, ONLY PAY BY CREDIT CARD. If they cannot accept a credit card payment, do not buy it."

The problem is, there are buyer scams as well as seller scams.

I've seen reports where the seller was ripped-off because of charge-backs.

Because of this, many sellers won't take a credit card directly or through PayPal.

While a lot of what you say is good, some of it represents a "blanket approach" and that doesn't always work out very good and an honest person who doesn't take credit cards would be hurt.

Seems like for every good thing there is, there is a theif, seller or buyer to ruin it for everyone else.

Danny Fye

Can't you, as a seller, state that you'll only ship when the paypal transaction clears? I thought you could only do a chargeback while the transaction was still ongoing, once in your bank account, it's untouchable, no? I thought this was why buyers didn't have much leverage using paypal.

"once in your bank account, it's untouchable, no?"

The answer is no. Paypal will hold the seller responsible if there is a charge-back and the buyer can show a valid reason, such as item not being delivered, etc.

The problem is, the seller can still get ripped-off because sometimes the buyer will say things about the item that are not true and do a charge-back and the seller will have a lot of problems getting it solved with PayPal if at all.

This is why a number of sellers refuse to use PayPal.

Also, the seller must have a feed-back score of 50 or better to actually qualify for PayPal protection. Less than that then the seller could be out of luck.

I agree with the advice some others here have previously said about using escrow. Be sure to use only the one that Ebay approves of or there will be more problems.

I haven't used escrow before and I am not real sure how to use it and how many days I should allow the buyer to look at the item, but I will definitely look into it in the future when the value of the item(s) I sell exceeds the normal protection that Ebay and PayPal offers.

Bottom line with Ebay, use common sense and don't be too quick to jump on what seems to be a bargain. Also NEVER do business outside of Ebay.

I noticed that many who have come here and elsewhere about problems they have did do business outside of Ebay. I have received emails when buying and selling items asking me to do so and have deleted all such emails.

Danny Fye

Mike Butler notes another BIG clue!

Be sure to click through to the eBay seller's feedback auctions. Beware if:

o they are all purchases and/or sales of unrelated, low-priced items;
o the transactions are so old that the pages are no longer online.

Either they have spent time setting up an account with a bit of feedback or they have hacked a legitimate user's account.

Good info here on the subject for sure.
I however have not had any bad experiences, all good.
I also purchased my XL1s using eBay from a guy that recommened this forum.

It's also a good place to sell the stuff you're not using any more (which I have accumumated a ton of)...including the pile of goodies I originally bought on eBay. Got the PowerBook on eBay, sold it a year and a half later on ebay.

"Oh, and this one time, at band camp..."

This is an excellent review of purchasing on eBay.

I bought a HC1 on eBay via the buy-it-now option and didn't really think about it. Since I used my CREDIT CARD, I knew I was covered. But it turned out to be a scam.

DO NOT USE BUY-IT-NOW FOR EXPENSIVE PURCHASES!

Then, believe it or not, I found an authorized Sony dealer on eBay! I simply called him up and ordered the new HC5 that had since come out.

Karma...

Updated the main post. This thread is still open for updates on current internet scams.

One thing that's been missed
 

Hi,all
I have just read this thread and there is one thing that has been missed that I would like to warn people about. I don't mean to frighten anyone as there is so many bad stories going around, I personally have had no bad experiences with Ebay except the odd CD/DVD not working and having to be replaced or tutorials that are copyrighted material from Linda.com or somewhere which were falsely advertised as being something different.

At the beginning of this thread there was a mention of picking up and paying in person being a safer option. This is not always so! Here in the UK (and this could happen anywhere) It was mentioned on the news about Ebayers carrying cash to pay in person for an item (It was cars but could apply to anything) They would agree to meet somewhere to make the deal (transaction) and would be led somewhere secluded where suddenly the situation would turn into a Gang (mob) situation, where the intention is to steal (mug, rob) the person of their money. These people know, 9 times out of 10 the person is going to have a large sum of money on them and this is a pre arranged set-up.

Now, I must admit this can be done very easily on some estates here in the uk, so buyers please have your wits about you and use your common sense.
Always meet in a public place where possible. Don't be led out from the bar (pub) if the seller says for example "come with me the item is just around the corner" and be aware of your surroundings.

If possible don't carry large sums of money with you, after all you might decide not to buy the item. And if you do, you can always go to the cash machine, after you have sussed the situation and the seller out.

Anyhow like I said earlier, I don't want to scare people, but I thought this should be mentioned as it has been missed.

This is such a good forum, keep up the good work people and be safe.

Carl (:-})

There's also lots of Craigslist scams going around.

There was a post on CL not too long ago about a shooter who showed up for a shoot he was hired on through CL and got held up at gunpoint and all his gear was stolen.

Also, scumbags list items for sale and when you reply, they say they've just moved out of town, but would be happy to ship the item and take paypal or money order payment...and no item will ever show up.