When Can You Call Yourself a Professional?
 

Hi everyone, I'm new to this forum, and fairly new to the digital video world. This seems to be the best forum on the web for digitial video and I am glad to be a part of it. Now for my first question :)

I know there is alot of professionals on here, so this is mainly aimed at you.

For those of you who are self taught, or in some cases even educated in an institute, at what point did you begin to call yourself a professional.

I'm a begining videographer, and I don't want to jump the gun and call myself professional, but I'd like to know when I technically can. Does it depends on the amount of work you recieve? How talented you are? Your equipment? If you have a crew and a studio? etc.

Any feedback is greatly appreciated!

-Jenna

Jenna,

Well, technically you are a professional when you get paid for what you're doing. That said, you have to decide when you are ready to be called that.

Base it on your knowledge and expertise in the field and your ability to turn out consistently good work. If you are doing video work and your customers are happy with what you turn out and they are willing to pay you a reasonable wage for it, then you are truly a professional. You are then a professional videographer.

It is a different story if you wish to call yourself a DP, Director, etc. etc., because then there are much higher standards to live up to and others generally have to agree with your opinion, especially if you wish to promote yourself as such.

Just have fun!

Mike

PROFES'SIONAL, a. Pertaining to a profession or to a calling; as professional studies
 

You have to have a landline and fax machine, right? Isn't that it? I think that's it...or maybe it's when you meet someone who can't do you what you do - yeah - I think that's more it. Then again, it might be when another professional respects you. Nah, that's goofy.

It's when you can actually do what you're telling people you can do.

Hi, Jenna.

From my perspective the key is if you make your entire living from making video.

No matter what level you work on, if video work is the difference between eating and going hungry - to the exclusion of everything else. You're a working pro.

Either you're already good enough - or you will be soon - cuz if you aren't - you and/or your family won't eat.

Simple as that.

Of course the technical definition is whether you make your primary income from it.

My own personal definition is, are you confident that you can fulfill your client's expectations, for the work you're advertising yourself for? For instance, if you're getting into wedding videos, can you complete the job on time, with no major problems that require excuses on your part? Audio that you don't have to make excuses for, etc etc.

In other words, I think being a true professional means not getting so far in over your head that you can't deliver.

A few thoughts on the question. Please add your own.

Being a professional is a number of different things. It is having enough experience to complete the task at hand within the deadline even if you don't know all of the details, because you WILL learn what needs to be known.
It is knowing when to turn down a job, regardless of the money, because you know the end result will damage more than it benefits.
It is hundreds of hours of learning the techniques, and at least the same amount of time applying those techniques while working with people, the infinite undefinable variable.
It is your attitude. It is applying virtually impossible standards of quality upon youself that no other business or corporation would even consider demanding of its employees.
It is paying the bills, and building equity for the future.
It is taking the "sows ear" shoot and turning it into the "silk purse" video.
It is saying, "The day is over. I am going home, and I am proud of what I accomplished. And ... I will do the same thing tomorrow".
It is being recognized by peers.
When you know professional quality, and you know you exemplify that quality, you will know you have achieved:
1. Something precious.
2. Something temporary.
3. Probably the best never ending goal to consistently achieve.
4. Personal gratification.
5. Humility.
6. The wilingness to nurture the growth of those persons who are just beginning the process you started so long ago.

thanks so much
 

Thanks so much for all of your feedback and quick responses! As I continue to try to establish myself and get my foot in the door you can expect me to be on here asking questions and seeking advice.

When can you call yourself a pro? Whenever you want. Don't let others define you. Define yourself. :)

i'll second what jon said. you decide. when someone asks you what you do, and you say, "i own a video production company," or "i'm a video producer" or however you decide to frame it. when you wear that identity comfortably.

i don't even think you have to be paid, frankly. get a few local credits or get a few things in festivals. get a business card. find a potential business partner who is advancing at your level or greater, and agree to shoot an event or two, to see how you work together. just step into the shoes, and the rest will follow. professional video production is a vast, expanding universe right now, and there's plenty of room at the trough for many levels of production expertise....

and take full advantage of the DVinfo resources. you can get distance-mentored from some of the best in the biz...just ask, and it's amazing who will step up to give you advice and tips. i am always astounded by the friendliness and access here.

Nyah, you have to carry BOTH a cell phone and a Blackberry and be so special that you never, ever have to turn them off on the set, even when the shot is mic'ed wireless.

Oh wait, that's a Producer

When I see the term "professional" in advertising it always makes me pause. Those working as professionals and who have a reputation in a real professional community rarely have to explain that that's what they are.

If your work is up to a professional standard it should speak for itself.

Exactly!


ps I just had a thought... When Sonny and Cher were signed, did he go by Pro Bono?

After you've made all the mistakes an amateur makes.

When asked if I am a professional, I answer no (since I do not film full time,) however I do professional work.

Bill

Isn't everyone with a 3 ccd camcorder a professional?

So...if I have TWO 3ccd camcorders, does that make me TWICE as professional? :-)

I have been asking myself this question a lot lately.

I recently entered the professional field and am now working out of a guys basement that does executive communications for a major technology company.

Man, I never thought professional video could look this bad. This guy does some goofy editing, and though I just graduated college last may, I am sure I could shoot better video than I have saw so far.

But yes, his clients are repeatedly hiring him, so I guess the ability to satisfy your clients is the key to being professional?

(these guys also all shoot with 3ccd cams by the way)

I'm curious. Was your degree in English? ;)

Jeff

Nope, I was a comm. major. Why would you ask?

I was hired under the University's media department and worked under their videographer and engineer for a year. Worked as lab assistant in the edit lab and television studio. I shot a lot of b-roll, various campus events and was p.a. on a number of university shoots.

Great experience and this was how I supported myself (other than living with my parrents). Does this mean I have been a pro for a while? Never mind, tahts just silly.

Note the emoticon at the end of his question. He was dogging you for not capitalizing the word May. Just a friendly ribbing of course.

-gb-

No, The late Jamie Uys a South-African filmaker (Beatifull People, The Gods
must be crazy etc. once stated ; " You can shoot a movie on toiletpaper as
long as you've got a good story to tell. " His statement obviously included
the craft of filmmaking.

I think, the use of a camera's functions in auto mode vs completely
manual mode relates more to the term / professional / amateur.

This statement is obviously debatable / I prefer having complete manual
control.

Herman.

You know, after seeing this thread resurface for a while I realize there's something I didn't say before.

It's absolutely meaningless when (or even if) you EVER start to call yourself a professional.

It only actually matters when OTHERS do.





For what it's worth.

Bang on the money.

LOL -- Greg, the lower case "m" may have been a typo, even English majors make typos! What was being referred to was the "I am sure I could shoot better video than I have saw so far."

That should read: I am sure I could shoot better video than I have seen so far.

Hey man,

Sorry for the typos. I was tired after a long day of synching mp3 audio to mpg video. This is the workflow I now have to deal with as a "professional."

Any advice for dealing with people who think they know what they are doing? Or people who think they are video professionals, but refuse to understand the technology involved?

I would appreciate any advice.

Thank you.

What's in a name!
 

Bill,

I would say that you are about 99% right, but I ran into an exception recently!

Around my area I have done many projects and I am involved in groups that include film school teachers, actors and actresses, producers, directors, etc… I would show up with some of my equipment, to work on a project, and they would ask what I did, as in was I a prefessional. One of the film school instructors asked me one day if I was a “Professional” or a “Serious Amateur?” I did not and do not at this time have a real business, nor do I seek out work. So I thought the term,”Serious Amateur” sounded good! So that’s the term I decided to use to describe what I do. I still do pro work, when approached by those who know me and my work, but most shoot films for others here locally.

I replied to a listing to do a shoot in Orlando, not far from me. I was just simple product demonstrations. The gentleman asked if I was a professional. I responded that I would call myself a "Serious Amateur." I also sent him a list of the equipment that I have, which is worth well over $30,000. I also mentioned some projects I had done.

I got a reply from him which said he was looking for a professional….period” I replied that I do professional work, and he said but “you said you were an amateur!” In the end I did not get the work and never heard from him again.

So, I guess if you really want to get paid to do professional work, weather you are any good or not, you better call yourself a “Professional!”

Mike

PS: I was hired recently for an interview shoot. The guy that hired me has a production company locally, under a LLC, Limited Liability Corporation. He was contacted by a university in Iowa, who found him by looking for local LLC video production companies. They hired him and he hired me. The shoot went just fine and they complemented him on the work. The funny part is that he has business cards and an LLC, but does not even have a camera! Go figure!

Mike

Off Topic - Six degrees... I found out last month the Uys I work with is his nephew. He has the bow from The Gods...

That is what I was kidding Greg about.

I put the winking smile at the end to let him know I was just ribbing him a bit. It struck me as funny when I read the part about being a college graduate and then making a simple error. Just kidding around with you, Greg. I hope I did not offend you.

But like I always say...
Once you speak good English, well, ain't nobody can't never take that from ya.

:)
Jeff

I guess I am spoiled and I am too used to writing in word with spelling and gramar check. I realize that most of the people on this forum probably wrote papers on typewriters. Being able to use english effectively is also part of being a professional.

Don't wrooy much though, I am more than capable of handling a joke.

From Webster:

1 a : of, relating to, or characteristic of a profession b : engaged in one of the learned professions c (1) : characterized by or conforming to the technical or ethical standards of a profession (2) : exhibiting a courteous, conscientious, and generally businesslike manner in the workplace

2 a : participating for gain or livelihood in an activity or field of endeavor often engaged in by amateurs <a professional golfer> b : having a particular profession as a permanent career <a professional soldier> c : engaged in by persons receiving financial return <professional football>

3 : following a line of conduct as though it were a profession <a professional patriot>

---------------------

So basically, when you're doing effective work in a businesslike manner and getting paid for it, that's enough for Webster.

My computer doesn't have a gramar checker just a grammar checker.

BTW: Firefox has a spell-checker that checks online forms while you type.

[QUOTE=Mike Teutsch;657362]Bill,

I would say that you are about 99% right, but I ran into an exception recently!

(SNIP)
the film school instructors asked me one day if I was a “Professional” or a “Serious Amateur?” I did not and do not at this time have a real business, nor do I seek out work. So I thought the term,”Serious Amateur” sounded good! So that’s the term I decided to use to describe what I do. I still do pro work, when approached by those who know me and my work, but most shoot films for others here locally.
(SNIP)
So, I guess if you really want to get paid to do professional work, weather you are any good or not, you better call yourself a “Professional!”

Mike



I think the real lesson here is not EVER to allow anyone else to define what you are or are not.

If someone asked me if I was a "professional" I wouldn't waste my time trying to figure out what he meant, precisely because that's largely UNKNOWABLE.

One person's definition of a professional might be someone with major motion picture DP experience. Another's might "professional videomaker" as someone who shoots 200 weddings a year. It's IMPOSSIBLE to answer a question without ever knowing the scale of the expected response.

So don't do it. Just politely say - "I'll send you a sample of my work" if you think it's the quality you're looking for, call me."

That removes all the subjectivity. If you do the level of work they want, you're hired. If not, you are missing a job that's beyond your current level of expertise, which prevents failure.

And the truth of the matter, is that if you just take the time to burn a damn DVD and send it off - rapidly and with a decently written cover letter - you're likely to find that you're getting call backs on a larger than expected share of work - even work somewhat BEYOND your capability - preciselly because so many knuckleheads can't seem to get their stuff together to even RESPOND to querys like this in a timely fashion. Trust me, the shooter who, given any opportunity, responds well and rapidly and shows INTEREST typically increases their success rate substantially.

AFTER THE JOB IN-HOUSE CLIENT DIALOG:
"I don't know if I hired the BEST person, but at least the they returned my calls promptly, showed up on time, brought what they needed, and didn't give me any serious grief - I'd hire them again."

For what it's worth.

This thread made me think some more on this question, so I'm back with another comment.

I don't really care what 'everyone' calls me, I just care that my customers think the product they purchased is the best they've ever seen, and that THEY think I'm professional.

I truly believe that it's like being a doctor, bed-side manner counts. With us, our demeanor and professional attitude is OUR bed-side manner, and it counts for a lot. I've worked for guys with WAY more experience, etc then me, but they've been asked to leave and never return to certain venues because of their UN-professional attitude.

Yeah, that's it...my ramblings boiled down to this...it's an attitude!

Mark

The "so far" is also redundant as it is implied in "have seen," which would incidentally sounds better written as "I've seen," and which furthermore needs a qualifyer so as not to be an overgeneralization, such as "from other so called professionals."

Should read:

I'm sure I shoot better video than much of what I've seen from other so-called professionals.

"serious amateur" says "doesn't yet believe they're capable of being a professional"

This isn't the NBA or accounting or something, but rather for the most part low budget video work. I'm not saying by any means it isn't complex and doesn't require skill and knowledge, as it does; both in shooting and editing. However, what I am saying is, one won't be cast of society or laughed at, scorned, or stoned to death for calling oneself a pro when they truly aren't deserving.

This seems largely a philosophical discussion,
 

so I'll add my 2 cents to the pot.

In the world of communication studies, in whatever kind of interaction occurs between people, the idea of first impressions has been summed up thusly: "Perception IS reality." If your customer perceives you as a professional, then, in their mind, that's what you are. Do everything you can to preserve their perception. Just remember that it occurs from either the first moment they see you, or from the first words out of your mouth. If you're a professional in their mind, much of that is due to that first impression. And I agree that it's largely your "bedside manner" that creates that first impression.

Maybe this little story will encourage you: I've been shooting and editing as a business only a short time (just over a year) and my very first call for a job became my very first paying customer. After delivery of the DVDs, that customer was so happy, they made a comment about how "worthwhile it was to work with a professional." After hearing that, it never crossed my mind to correct them; that perception was already pressed into their memory and I saw no need to change that. One comment from one customer instilled enough confidence and conviction that I must be doing something right, that I've already shot, booked, or billed more this year than ALL of last year. I've even been asked to cover jobs by other indies when they weren't available. (Those occasions are as much a compliment as the customers' perceptions). While the amount of $$ so far this year isn't gonna' get me out of the debt I've taken on for equipment, it strengthened my belief that there is light at the end of the tunnel, but it's only backlighting, so be careful just how much you illiminate the subject! (pun intended).

Best of luck to you.

I suspect it wasn't your skill level that kept you from getting the job. I think the potential client wanted some 'accountability' from a money standpoint. That's why the guy with a LLC and business card got hired, even though he owns no camera.

-gb-

That's right! Perception is everything until your skills can be demonstrated. If you want work as a professional (to get paid) then call yourself a professional.

Mike

"Serious amateur" doesn't say that to me at all, to me it says something different. It's a matter of interpretation and some will take yours. I don't call myself that anymore.

Part of my reason for not calling myself a "professional" at that time, was the people I was hanging out with. Most were Hollywood professionals, past and present, and I was simply not in the same category as these people.

Well, got to go see a client! Later.

Mike

Why are guys continually picking apart my post? If you like proof reading that much, then by all means, peruse through this entire forum. I am sure you can find much to scoff at.

In response to my earlier post, learning how to work with people is very important in this business. Understanding the technology involved and being able to communicate your capabilities is also very important. I recently started working for an independent producer and he is paying me very well. I am making more money working less than half time than my brother is working full time (for the record he is a lab tech). My client is very happy with my work and my knowledge.