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November 14th, 2007, 10:54 PM | #1 | ||||||||
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Understanding 24p
This is a continuation of a discussion we were having in another thread pertaining to the Sony Z7 and S270. I'll throw in some quotes to bring everyone up to speed.
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November 14th, 2007, 10:59 PM | #2 |
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Marcus,
I was holding off asking this question in the other forum because I didn't want to hijack the Sony thread with some Panasonic discussion... so I'll ask it here. Am I correct in understanding that you're saying the HVX is adding some kinda pulldown pattern to the 24pn modes? Explain to me why they would do this when this 24pn mode is supposed to be JUST 24 frames on a card. They include the ability to shoot in a 24pa mode, so why the need to muddy the waters with a 24pn mode if it doesn't actually shoot only 24 frames every second without some type of pulldown.
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November 14th, 2007, 11:15 PM | #3 |
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No pulldown in the 24p native mode, that I'm aware of. I never had to remove a pulldown.
However, and this will throw you WAY off, but if you take Canon HDV 24F footage, capture it using Final Cut Pro's HDV 1080p24 codec, it will indeed remove the pulldown upon capture. I couldn't believe it when I tried it, but it did it! And with FCP 6.0.2's release, apparently, something is addressed with V1u 24p footage, and I think JVC, too. Someone in the know mentioned earlier this fall that an update will come out to address some JVC/Final Cut Pro issues. Heath
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November 14th, 2007, 11:23 PM | #4 | |||
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November 14th, 2007, 11:26 PM | #5 |
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24pa means advanced, where special "flags" are put up to help with the removal of pulldowns. It's VERY deep geek. Read this:
http://adamwilt.com/24p/index.html heath
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November 14th, 2007, 11:28 PM | #6 |
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ps-In particular, this:
http://adamwilt.com/24p/index.html#When_to_shoot I'll email some of the guys about our new discussion thread. Heath
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November 14th, 2007, 11:40 PM | #7 |
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Heath, not to stray off topic, but this doesn't work for Canon's HV20 footage shot in the 24P mode now, does it?
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November 14th, 2007, 11:45 PM | #8 | |
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Pulldown is added whenever you shoot 24 but the camera is recording more frames than that for compatibility purposes like for 1080i60/24PA for example. The real issue is how the 24P is created to begin with. The answer is: the sensor is sampled at 24 (actually 23.976) fps. |
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November 15th, 2007, 12:14 AM | #9 |
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I haven't tried it with Canon's 24p stuff. But I'd like to try!
heath
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November 15th, 2007, 06:12 AM | #10 | |
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I don't dispute the results of your work or your expertise for that matter, but this is why it gets confusing trying to understand this technology. And I would also like to clarify for all, it is not my intention to argue with Heath, Marcus, or anyone else. I am not an expert, but the Panasonic literature indicates just what I've posted. I don't have the expertise like Marcus and others to perform tests that disproves or proves anything. I am like so many others here, just trying to understand and apply all of this info into my needs. So I will recap what I have learned thus far: The HVX200, (according to Panasonic specs and info), Captures at 1080 60p, and all other streams are derived from that. (HVX200 brochure page 4) It writes to tape using a 1080 60i stream with 2:3 pulldown.(HVX200 Brochure pg 5, note 2) As to the importance of how the original 24p is derived from a native progressive source, I am enlightened. I had always believed the 24p was derived from the 1080 60i to begin with. It is only "packaged" in a 60i stream to support the limitations of writing to MiniDv and the P2 card. Thanks for all of the input, and explanation.
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November 15th, 2007, 10:55 AM | #11 |
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HVX's DVCPRO HD doesn't go to tape; there's a tape transport system for DV/SD only. They went with P2 because it's cheaper to use those cards than a DVCPRO HD tape transport system, which would quadruple the cost of the camera.
heath
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November 15th, 2007, 11:14 AM | #12 |
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That's right. Typing too fast. It is all as clear as crystal. Thanks.
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November 15th, 2007, 11:56 AM | #13 |
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From what I gather, there's a difference between how the Canon XHA1 records 24fps to tape and how the Canon HV20 records 24fps to tape. Someone care to break the difference down?
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November 16th, 2007, 11:47 AM | #14 |
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The HV20's cadence can break on each clip, and it doesn't record any flags, so the only way to extract the frames is by analyzing the clips. Cineform's tools do this in realtime. I'm not aware of a realtime process for Macs, unless this new FCP update can do it. Waiting anxiously to hear definitively!
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November 16th, 2007, 12:54 PM | #15 |
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Hey, Cineform's now on Intel Macs! So that'll be something to check out.
Heath
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