Gunshot FX- Where to get/make squibs?

[Giroud Francois]

there is a software called ALAMDV this is built for such effect.
in fact it just uses a suite of picture to make the animation.
You can leave the soft and just use the picture in premiere ot after effect if you need.

[Paolo Ciccone]

Originally Posted by Rob Gregory-Browne

Just fake it in post. Hell, Rodriguez did a lot of that in Once Upon a Time in Mexico and you can't tell the difference. Watch his behind the scenes video.

Rodriguez enhanced OUATIM in post but for "El Mariachi" he had a real squib attached to a weight lifting belt strapped to the chest of the actor. Carlos Galliardo would then fire the squib at the right time. They used to put the fake blood in condoms with the squib inside the condom instead of behind it.

[Rob Gregory-Browne]

And don't forget the famous guacamole gun his crew invented for Desperado....

[Kyle Edwards]

Originally Posted by Deniz Turkmen

The link I posted is for a non firing gun. It's pretty cool. It uses an electric charge to ignite flash powder. I haven't actually used one, but from the video clip on the site, it looks realistic. Plus they have everything from handguns to an M-16.

The gun looks real but the firing is pretty fake.

[Peter Jefferson]

Particle Illusion :)

i was having good fun shooting from a banana and watching the tracer stream across the screen and seeng the shells drop to the ground.. good stuff :)

[Keith Loh]

Originally Posted by Kyle Edwards

The gun looks real but the firing is pretty fake.

Is this from the website? I couldn't find any video of what these 'non-guns' look like in action.

[Kyle Edwards]

Originally Posted by Keith Loh

Is this from the website? I couldn't find any video of what these 'non-guns' look like in action.

I was going by the badly compressed GIF. Just by looking at that, you can tell the guns do not fire realisticly. Too much smoke/muzzleflash.

[Deniz Turkmen]

How fake it looks depends on the editing. If you cut away quick enough it should look fine. When working with a low budget, anything you do effects wise is gonna come down to how you edit it. Robert Rodriguez may come off as the cool, one-man band filmmaker, but he's still a Hollywood filmmaker, and has a budget to match. He can shoot a scene with Antonio Banderas waving a gun around then add all the effects in afterwards -- he's got more money and resources then anyone on this board.

This is purely my opinion and I don't expect everyone to agree with me, but when it comes down to effects and low budget filmmaking, you have to ask yourself at some point during preproduction -- am I gonna sell this movie? If the answer is yes, then you gotta look at your effects with a highly critical eye. You might throw in a gunshot with AlamDV or After Effects, and it might look cool to you -- but thats because you made it. Yeah -- it might impress some of your friends and family who probably thought adding a gunshot was something only professional Hollywood effects people can do, but will it impress the thousands of people you need to go see your movie in order to move your career along?

When it comes down to it, the best low budget effects are the ones that aren't there at all -- the effects that leave themselves up to the audiences imagination. I know it might not be "gunshot" related, but think of the chainsaw scene in Scarface. A lot of people will say that's one of the most gruesome scenes they've ever seen, yet all you see is blood splattering on Al Pacino's face. It's the sound of the chainsaw, the situation, the atmosphere that make the scene work -- not the actual image of the chainsaw cutting a guy up.

Just think creatively about your effects and save the money you'd spend on food for your cast and crew -- they'll love you for it :)

[Keith Loh]

Good thoughts Denis. Absolutely, work with what you have and think creatively.

[Rob Gregory-Browne]

There's no question that you should rely on your creativity, but the honest truth is that, thanks to technology, we have many of the same post-production tools at hand that the biggest Hollywood studios do and they're less expensive and certainly much less dangerous to use than squibs and blank-firing guns.

There is no reason an independent -- who has more time than Rodriguez or anyone else to get it right -- can't fire up a copy of after effects and create some very convincing gunshots, etc.

If you bother to look at Rodriguez's behind the scenes video on Once Upon a Time in Mexico, you'll see that he did the majority of his hits using his "guacamole gun" and post production After Effects work. This had little to do with budget and everything to do with time, convenience, the failure of the blank-shooting weapons to arrive on time and the fact that they couldn't rig the location without damaging things.

Technology is our friend and, rather than COST us more money, it SAVES us a considerable amount, it allows us to be MORE creative, and every independent filmmaker should embrace it whole-heartedly.

[Deniz Turkmen]

Rob,

Very true -- technology is our friend. If it wasn't for technology we wouldn't be able to grab a mini dv camera and shoot a movie for a fraction of the cost of film.

What I'm trying to say is that -- from what I've seen -- a lot of the effects being done with these programs in independent films are pretty cheesy, whether it be a muzzle flash or a ghost walking across a room.

Please point me in the direction of a low budget film that used After Effects or a similar program without falling into the realm of cheesy.

[Rob Gregory-Browne]

Ahh, well now we're talking about two different things. I would have great difficulty pointing you to a low or micro budget MOVIE that wasn't cheesy.

But these movies aren't cheesy because of their cheesy special effects or cheesy technology. They're cheesy because, unfortunately, MOST of those attempting to make such films aren't all that talented or don't have the skills to pull off what they're attempting to pull off.

I would blame the moviemakers long before I'd blame the technology.

That said, I do think there are a number of micro-budget moviemakers who are both talented and skilled with special effects. The makers of 405 the Movie (www.405themovie.com) did a remarkable job. There's a guy named Ryan W who has done some pretty amazing special effects (www.ryan-w.com) at home and wound up getting a job at Lucas Arts because of it.

There's a teenager (www.peerlessproductions.com) who is well on his way to being a master of special effects.

Again, it comes down to the PEOPLE involved, not necessarily the tools they use.

[Hugh DiMauro]

There's a website (in the UK I think, linked to this DV INfo website) that teaches you how to make bullet hits for bodies using nothing more than a rubber tube run under the shirt filled with your favorite blood concoction and blown out through the compressed air of a lawn and garden sprayer. He has online video clips showing how cool this looks. It looks great and it is not dangerous at all. If I find the site I will post it.

[Nick Jushchyshyn]

Is this the site you're talking about?

[Dylan Couper]

Thanks Nick, I was looking for that link to post, you beat me to it.

I'll say it on behalf of DVinfo:

"DON'T USE EXPLOSIVE SQUIBS UNLESS YOU ARE *PROPERLY* TRAINED OR HIRE A PROFESSIONAL, OR WE WILL PERSONALLY COME AND KICK YOUR ASS."

Thank you.