Re: Guns! Guns! How to pull off a realistic killing ?
 

I've had enough guns fired in my general direction on sets over the years that I'm pretty delighted not to have to be in the line of fire these days. Never got used to it, never thought it was "cool". It's definitely better these days with the non-guns.

For situations where muzzle flash will be added, I have a low-tech solution for creating the reactive lighting on the shooter's face that I came up with years ago. We set a silver "pizza box" (2x2) bounce set pointed back at the actor from the direction of the end of the gun; we aim a hot narrow source like a tungsten par at it. I have the grips cut an approximately 10" hole in the center of a piece of show card, and have them hold it between the light and the bounce so that if the light shines through the hole, it fills the card. Then I simply have them start with the card slid off to one side so that no light comes through; when the actor mimes firing the gun, they quickly slide the card across, stopping so that the light remains blocked on the other side of the hole. The result is a very quick flash of hot light on the actor's face. In a perfect world, it would last no more than two to three frames (one hot, subsequent decaying) which would be very close to what an actual muzzle blast does, but it still works if it plays a few frames longer. It's easier to control than panning the actual unit, which also blasts light around the set, and much controllable than trying to switch a light on and off (tungsten units generally take too long to decay to off).

Example here, at :41:

Re: Guns! Guns! How to pull off a realistic killing ?
 

What a great idea! I love it, and will pass that on to filmmakers. I have seen various attempts with strobes but they rarely work because the flash duration is just too short, or tungsten lights panned on and off but they also don't work, exactly as you describe.

The only thing that works well is a snooted strobe that can deliver flash durations of 1/10th of a second or slower. (As you say, you only need 2 or 3 frames to achieve the effect.) Unfortunately, these strobes are HUGELY expensive, very large and very heavy.

Being a bit 'old school' I still love to achieve the effect in the camera where possible, and Charles' idea for the flash on the face effect is wonderful.

This emphasizes the point that blanks should only be used when there is a highly experienced professional on set. If there is, then you can do some great stuff with blanks very safely because an experienced professional will: #1 - know how to get the look you need safely; and #2 - be prepared to stop the scene or even walk off the set if anyone's safety is being compromised. They are also there to give the firearms - loaded or not - their undivided attention, as Bob points out above.

For low budget filmmakers who think they can just bring in a friend because they own guns or their uncle because he's a hunter or a cop, you have to realize non-professionals don't know #1 and may not be prepared to do #2 above.

This is where serious forums like this are invaluable for trading information and finding safe ways to achieve these effects when you may not have access to professionals to help you. I am in awe of the talents of the people in this forum and their willingness to share their experiences.

(Plus, if any filmmakers are attending the Action on Film Festival in Pasadena this year in August, it looks like they will be sponsoring a forum specifically on this topic. I will get a chance to talk about how low-budget filmmakers can achieve gunshot effects safely, legally AND cheaply. If you are in the area of Monrovia or Pasadena during AOF, watch for the forum and be sure to drop in and say hi.)

Re: Guns! Guns! How to pull off a realistic killing ?
 

Please do pass this tip around Dave, just call it the "Papert Technique", haha!!

I will say that my key grip thought I was a little nuts when I suggested this last season for the clip linked above, but he has become a believer! Ironically I seem to pull more from my low budget bag of tricks these days than from the "legit" techniques--purse strings are pulled tighter than a drum and any time I can find a way to achieve something with the gear we possess rather than dayplay anything exotic like a strobe, it allows me to bank that for the time I really need it.

Along these lines and to clarify Dave's point: I did a few low budget shoots in the past couple of years while in the moving-up process but I would NEVER allow gun wrangling to be done by anyone who didn't have the proper training. Some things should not be skirted and that is one of them. It's not the easiest thing for me to have to shoot at blistering top speed and compromise everything and then have everything skid to stop and proceed at a much slower speed when a gun is being managed, but it's the way it has to be and I will never fight it. That nearly wiped us out when shooting a music video with a lot of vintage guns and a single armorer handling all of the reloads--we had tons of setups to get through in an afternoon and we barely made it before we lost light. At a certain point we had to commit to post effects for the muzzles. I can't remember which is which in the final video. Personally I thought the gun battle went on way too long but fans of the band loved it, so what do I know.

Re: Guns! Guns! How to pull off a realistic killing ?
 

Nice work as always, Charles!

I could see which ones were done on post and which ones were done in the camera (but then I'm a perfectionist.)

Ironically, one difference between blanks and post muzzle flash effects is that blanks don't always show up on every shot. The flash is much briefer than the shutter speed, and handguns show a good muzzle flash only about 1 out of 4 tries. Rifles and shotguns are slightly better but it is just a matter of random chance.

A good DOP can increase the odds, but here is a valuable tip. When shooting on film, if you saw the muzzle flash on the monitor or in the eyepiece, it did NOT show up on film. When shooting digital, if you saw it in the monitor, it IS captured.

This is why low-budget filmmakers have to budget about 10 blanks for every gunshot they want to see on the final cut. This allows for test shots, multiple takes and multiple angles.

Re: Guns! Guns! How to pull off a realistic killing ?
 

Wow, tons of good info in this thread!
The only time I've used a gun in a shot so far was a gag, which happens at 0:30 in this video
It was a cheap airsoft gun, and I just did a quick and easy after effects muzzle flash and some sound effects with it. I have been looking in to getting some blowback airsoft guns so that there's some more sense of realism, has anyone found good cheap versions of these to use? I'd like to not have to stress with $100 guns, so if I could get them on the cheap it'd be awesome.

Re: Guns! Guns! How to pull off a realistic killing ?
 

Just for fun and further information, here is a guide I posted to help filmmakers get the gun scenes they need safely:
12 Greatest Myths about Firearms on Film Sets by David A. Brown

I am also very honoured that I have been asked to speak at the Filmmaker's Brunch on the opening Sunday of the Action on Film International Film Festival in Monrovia California August 19 2012. My topic will be: "Firearms in Film: How to achieve the look you need a) safely, b) legally, c) cheaply. (Pick any three.)"

This will emphasize how one can get good gunshots in the camera if they can find the right people and follow some simple safety guidelines. It doesn't have to cost a ton and the nice thing is, unlike a stunt, when we pull off a very tricky gunfight scene, nobody ever applauds our efforts. (That's the way I LIKE it ... safety simply becomes a normal way of life and everyone walks away wondering why they even need all their safety gear anyway because "nuthin' ever goes wrong around here.")