XL2-shot, 16x9, 24p... on a 29.97 DVD and 4:3 TV? ARGH! at DVinfo.net

Donovan Cerminara · January 5th, 2006, 01:30 PM

Hello,

Upon the recent acquisition of an XL2, I've been overjoyed at the quality of images I've been able to gather, however, once in post, I'm at a loss.

What use is 24p, if my Encore INSISTS upon transcoding my 24p footage into 29.97 (progressive, at least) for the DVD build? Have I been hoodwinked by the 24p movement?

Not to mention shooting and editing in 16x9, only to discover just about every TV I've yet to screen it on has been 4:3, stretching my glorious picture into strangeness... Better to export into 4:3, then 'squeeze' it ala faux letterbox?

Sigh... Forget HDTV, SD still has it's share of grief...

Any advice would be great!

Cheers!

Paul Cuoco · January 5th, 2006, 01:50 PM

I've never used Encore to author a 24P 16:9 DVD, but I know in Vegas DVD before you import your footage you have to specify that the project is anamorphic 16:9 video at 24P. Then it will go to DVD properly and the DVD player will add 3:2 pulldown (or up I always mix that up) and letterbox video on non progessive 4:3 TV's, and display a 24P widescreen image on 16:9 progressive HDTV.

If that's not an option, check Encore's specs to see if it says it can make a 24P DVD.

Also, which 24P mode did you shoot in? 2:3, or 2:3:3:2? If you shot in 2:3 then your 24P material is interlaced in camera to 29.97 with pulldown already inserted, and encore may be correctly interpreting that as it makes the DVD. If you shot 2:3:3:2 then you have a true 24P project.

Hope this helps.

Paul

Josh Brusin · January 6th, 2006, 12:07 PM

I would question Encore before 24p as a medium. You should be able to encode so that the dvd player identifies 16x9... I was disappointed to find out that my stand alone dvd burner can't - it stretches my footage... so using it to create "dailies" is not happening... bummmmmmmmer.

Alec Lence · January 9th, 2006, 10:20 PM

Are you capturing your footage into a 16X9 project? There are a ton of settings to sift through in order to find exactly what you are looking at.

Also, the DVD standard is 29.97, so even though your footage is 24, it will be encoded to the DVD as 29.97, but it will still look the same as you shot it. Also, if your Encore project and transcoding is set to 16X9, it should automatically be letterboxed on a 4:3 television. At least in my experience.

What NLE are you using?

Mike Oveson · January 10th, 2006, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alec Lence

Also, the DVD standard is 29.97, so even though your footage is 24, it will be encoded to the DVD as 29.97, but it will still look the same as you shot it.

Although there may be a standard of 29.97fps (NTSC) you can make a true 24fps DVD if you shoot in 24pA then use Vegas to edit in 24p and then use DVD Architect to create a 24p widescreen DVD. In my experience Adobe products have a difficult time which 24p. Which is why I ditched Premiere Pro and Encore as soon as I got my DVX100A.

I've been away from Encore for a good while, and I never used it with 24p material. As Alec mentioned though, you should be able to set it so that your project is 16:9 which will cause most DVD players to letterbox it instead of stretching it. At least in my experience.

Alec Lence · January 10th, 2006, 12:12 PM

"In my experience Adobe products have a difficult time which 24p. Which is why I ditched Premiere Pro and Encore as soon as I got my DVX100A."

Agreed - lately I've noticed Adobe products having trouble with lots of things, although I have my current faith after viewing "Dust to Glory" so I know these things CAN be done. If PP 2 fails to up the ante then I'm going to revamp my machine and move on to Avid.

James Llewellyn · January 10th, 2006, 02:53 PM

If the tv isn't displaying it correctly, I suggest you try checking the display settings on your dvd player.

Nicholas Valentine · January 23rd, 2006, 12:55 PM

James has a point. Try checking the settings on the DVD player. I was having that probably a year ago and it turned out that it was the setting on my DVD player. There should be three settings, 4:3, 4:3 Letterbox and 16x9 widescreen. Select 4:3 letterbox or 16x9 widescreen. This should resolve that issue.

David Jimerson · March 8th, 2006, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Cuoco

I've never used Encore to author a 24P 16:9 DVD, but I know in Vegas DVD before you import your footage you have to specify that the project is anamorphic 16:9 video at 24P. Then it will go to DVD properly and the DVD player will add 3:2 pulldown (or up I always mix that up) and letterbox video on non progessive 4:3 TV's, and display a 24P widescreen image on 16:9 progressive HDTV.

Actually, in Vegas, if you have the crops in the right places, you can go out to widescreen DVD from either a 16:9 or 4:3 project. With Vegas, you can always switch project settings on the fly, and you always have your full set of render options in any kind of project. Working in PAL widescreen and want to render to NTSC 4:3? No problem.

Quote:

Also, which 24P mode did you shoot in? 2:3, or 2:3:3:2? If you shot in 2:3 then your 24P material is interlaced in camera to 29.97 with pulldown already inserted, and encore may be correctly interpreting that as it makes the DVD. If you shot 2:3:3:2 then you have a true 24P project.

No, this is a common misconception.

The only difference between shooting in 24p (2:3) or 24pA (2:3:3:2) is the way the frames are split up and placed into a 60i (interlaced) stream. Both are acquired the same -- the progressive CCD is read 24 times a second. Both are "true 24p."

And both are recorded to tape in 60i. Like I said, the ONLY difference is the way the 24p frames are split into fields and arranged into 60i.

You can edit 24p (2:3) in native 24p if your NLE will remove that pulldown (Vegas does; Premiere Pro 2.0 does; not sure about Canopus, and with FCP and Avid, it's a pain).

You can edit 24pA (2:3:3:2) in native 24p if your NLE will remove THAT pulldown (Vegas, PP, FCP, Canopus, and Avid all do). But remember -- 24pA is NOT on tape as "true 24p"; it's in 60i, and the pulldown DOES have to be removed.

Donovan Cerminara · April 30th, 2006, 08:19 PM

Well now, moving onto Premiere Pro 2.0 has solved all my grief. Now that's an NLE that's a great companion to a XL2...

Thanks for your tips, ya'll.. I've learned, and that's the point, yes?

Ash Greyson · May 1st, 2006, 03:28 PM

I have had a lot of luck lately doing 24P 16:9 DVDs with TMPEG... dirt cheap and it works GREAT, even motion menus! Just output a 24P file with the Adobe Media Encoder and pop it into TMPEG... fast and very nice looking.

ash =o)

January 5th, 2006, 01:30 PM	#1
Donovan Cerminara New Boot Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada Posts: 16	XL2-shot, 16x9, 24p... on a 29.97 DVD and 4:3 TV? ARGH! Hello, Upon the recent acquisition of an XL2, I've been overjoyed at the quality of images I've been able to gather, however, once in post, I'm at a loss. What use is 24p, if my Encore INSISTS upon transcoding my 24p footage into 29.97 (progressive, at least) for the DVD build? Have I been hoodwinked by the 24p movement? Not to mention shooting and editing in 16x9, only to discover just about every TV I've yet to screen it on has been 4:3, stretching my glorious picture into strangeness... Better to export into 4:3, then 'squeeze' it ala faux letterbox? Sigh... Forget HDTV, SD still has it's share of grief... Any advice would be great! Cheers!

April 30th, 2006, 08:19 PM	#10
Donovan Cerminara New Boot Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada Posts: 16	Pickin' up the thread... Well now, moving onto Premiere Pro 2.0 has solved all my grief. Now that's an NLE that's a great companion to a XL2... Thanks for your tips, ya'll.. I've learned, and that's the point, yes? __________________ Donovan Cerminara Bull By the Horns Productions bullbythehorns@gmail.com

January 5th, 2006, 01:50 PM	#2
Paul Cuoco Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 93	I've never used Encore to author a 24P 16:9 DVD, but I know in Vegas DVD before you import your footage you have to specify that the project is anamorphic 16:9 video at 24P. Then it will go to DVD properly and the DVD player will add 3:2 pulldown (or up I always mix that up) and letterbox video on non progessive 4:3 TV's, and display a 24P widescreen image on 16:9 progressive HDTV. If that's not an option, check Encore's specs to see if it says it can make a 24P DVD. Also, which 24P mode did you shoot in? 2:3, or 2:3:3:2? If you shot in 2:3 then your 24P material is interlaced in camera to 29.97 with pulldown already inserted, and encore may be correctly interpreting that as it makes the DVD. If you shot 2:3:3:2 then you have a true 24P project. Hope this helps. Paul

January 6th, 2006, 12:07 PM	#3
Josh Brusin Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 439	I would question Encore before 24p as a medium. You should be able to encode so that the dvd player identifies 16x9... I was disappointed to find out that my stand alone dvd burner can't - it stretches my footage... so using it to create "dailies" is not happening... bummmmmmmmer.

January 9th, 2006, 10:20 PM	#4
Alec Lence Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 67	Are you capturing your footage into a 16X9 project? There are a ton of settings to sift through in order to find exactly what you are looking at. Also, the DVD standard is 29.97, so even though your footage is 24, it will be encoded to the DVD as 29.97, but it will still look the same as you shot it. Also, if your Encore project and transcoding is set to 16X9, it should automatically be letterboxed on a 4:3 television. At least in my experience. What NLE are you using?

January 10th, 2006, 12:12 PM	#6
Alec Lence Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 67	"In my experience Adobe products have a difficult time which 24p. Which is why I ditched Premiere Pro and Encore as soon as I got my DVX100A." Agreed - lately I've noticed Adobe products having trouble with lots of things, although I have my current faith after viewing "Dust to Glory" so I know these things CAN be done. If PP 2 fails to up the ante then I'm going to revamp my machine and move on to Avid.

January 10th, 2006, 02:53 PM	#7
James Llewellyn Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 80	If the tv isn't displaying it correctly, I suggest you try checking the display settings on your dvd player.

January 23rd, 2006, 12:55 PM	#8
Nicholas Valentine Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Northwestern/Central, PA Posts: 62	James has a point. Try checking the settings on the DVD player. I was having that probably a year ago and it turned out that it was the setting on my DVD player. There should be three settings, 4:3, 4:3 Letterbox and 16x9 widescreen. Select 4:3 letterbox or 16x9 widescreen. This should resolve that issue.

May 1st, 2006, 03:28 PM	#11
Ash Greyson Trustee Join Date: May 2003 Location: Tulsa, OK Posts: 1,689	I have had a lot of luck lately doing 24P 16:9 DVDs with TMPEG... dirt cheap and it works GREAT, even motion menus! Just output a 24P file with the Adobe Media Encoder and pop it into TMPEG... fast and very nice looking. ash =o)