How to get a moderately high shot?
 

I don't know where else to post this, so please move it if there's a better place.

For a pair of television commercials I need to get an overhead shot of a guy sitting on a park bench and and an overhead shot of the guy standing in a parking lot.

My original plan was to just use a ladder and figure out a way to extend the camera out from it. However, a ladder is only going to get my camera 8 or so feet off the ground. Do you guys have any other ideas for getting a higher shot (maybe 20-25 feet)?

I've considered lifts and jibs, but the jib rental quotes I've gotten are around $1,000, and I can't fit that into the budget.

Thanks for ANY ideas.

Step ladders are made up to at least 12 feet. If you have a pickup truck with a pipe rack, you could rent one of these. 12 feet seems a great deal taller than 8 feet. You also could build a temporary super-tall tripod out of lumber, but you would not be able to work the camera once it is raised into place.

Depending where you are, a smaller lift rental that is used by maintenance workers should be in your budget.

In between these budgets is a rental scaffold. I would go this way if $1000 is too much for the budget, but I wouldn't go up 25' on anything but very level ground in fairly low wind areas.

For scouting your locations, try a 12' ladder and you might find it is tall enough if you use a fairly wide lens. In any of these scenarios, be careful as a fall from even 12' can be deadly.

If your low on funds, but you have some time and a few friends to help you get the shot... maybe heavy duty balloons.

Now, don't laugh. This was done way back in the day..... before there were cranes.

I haven't figured out the details, yet.... But, I am planing to do some high overhead shot's using large balloons.

I'm thinking the bigger the "bracket" that attaches to the camera the better.

A fig rig might be the ticket to attach the cabling and balloons to the camera.

The wheel (fig rig) would help stabilize the whole thing....

And even better, build a much larger bracket out of (cheap $) 1" to 2" pvc pipe. Attaching the frame to the fig rig shouldn't be to difficult.

A six foot square pvc frame would be cheap, easy to build and because of the size, very stable. For safe assembly you could drill holes in all the pvc joints and use nut's and bolts, to bolt it together at the shoot.

You'll need a long chord to the monitor ....

And two 'Y' cables (or nylon rope) to the camera "bracket/support (fig rig/and or pvc)" from the ground being controlled by two friends standing on opposite sides, (far away enough from your subject to be out of the shot) to control camera height and tilt.

You need to attach the balloons to the "bracket" in a similar fashion, with two 'Y' cables (or nylon rope) but very short in length. The balloon just needs to be a few feet above the camera.

Might work great. Especially if there is no, or very little wind that day.

I think it's clear you would have to be extra careful setting this rig up....

And even though I think it's reasonably safe, I wouldn't try it with out sufficient insurance (smile).

There is something out there, called a skypod. It is sort of like a monopod, only much taller. As for the balloons... good idea, but no way to focus, or adjust the camera, or even keep it in position. You could also get by with a jib or crane.

Thanks for the ideas. I'll look into get a larger ladder maybe. I had thought of scaffolding already, but I'm not sure where to get that at. Maybe a rental place also. I might also just have to settle for a lower shot. I don't think a portable lift would work for the park shot, because I'd have to drive it out into the park, which probalby wouldn't go over well with the city. d:-)

The balloons probably wouldn't work for me for a number of reasons, but mostly because I expect at least a moderate breeze (especially for the parking garage shot - it's about 6 stories up and completely unprotected).

Travis,

Can you fit a standard tripod as tall as possible, with a low-cost crane like the KesslerCrane (12' for around $500) in your budget? I just got the 8' KesslerCrane, and man it's a nice piece of gear for the money. Would be useful tool to have around.

Josh

I've gone up a couple of times in cherry pickers. Recently with a tree trimming service. For free. I worked the angle of giving a credit in the film.

This may seem an obvious answer, but how about using a bridge or a high building? Most office buildings have large parking lots around them, and many have grassy lawned areas on which you could place your park bench...

Joshua:
I was looking at cranes at B&H. Didn't seem like I'd get much higher than using a ladder, and a lot more expensive. Good idea, though.

Sam:
I considered lifts as well, but one of the shots is over a park bench in the middle of a park, and I doubt I'd be allowed to drive a lift of any kind in there. I haven't tossed this idea totally yet, though. I'm looking at other locations where I might be able to use that.

Paul:
Good ideas. The problem is that I need both shots to be consistent in height and I can't think of any bridges or buildings where I could get the park shot. Not to mention I need the shot to be directly overhead, which would be hard (if not impossible) to get by shooting from building window. Thanks for the ideas, though.

Travis, how about climbing on top of a truck and then setting up a tripod on there? Moving trucks usually have lots of surface area on top and I'm sure can handle the weight of a person and equipment. You can drive it into position.

Plus, you can use it to move all your crap.

EDIT: ah you can't drive anything there.

lol, I was just going to post that . . .

Yeah, I can't plan on driving anything there. I'm starting to think either the crane or a taller ladder are going to be my best options. The ladder would probably be easier to rig and setup and would cost a lot less. The crane might give me a better result. Ahhh, decisions . . .

A couple of points to ponder.

1. Step ladders are available in 24ft height. I used one to install a ceiling fan in my brother's house several years ago.

2. Check out Dan Selakovich's book entitled "Killer Camera Rigs that you can build". I bought a copy at NAB last year after watching Dan demonstrate some of his ingenious 'contraptions'

3. The device Keith alluded to may be the one I saw at NAB last year and have video of the model demonstrating it. Another ingenious rig that was being used with a DVX100A for the demo. I almost bought one on the spot!

Hope this helps,

-gb-

Greg- If you were referring to me and my Skypod suggestion, I haven't actually seen one in person. I did find a whole bunch of "Help Wanted" ads, for people to operate them, with a link back to the company. I thought it was pretty neat, the way they work.

Thanks guys. I didn't realize you could get a 24ft. step ladder. Holy climbing, Batman!

Build a crane.
 

The ladder is ok, but offers no dramatic camera movement. Just a high pov.

I just built a 14 footer for less than 100 bucks. Plunked it on a heavy duty light stand and it is perfect. Heavy duty caster minus the wheel with 4 sided heavy duty stop sign material and you don't even need a guy wire.

Well, all I'm really interested in for these specific shots is a high POV. I actually don't want any movement.

However, a 24-foot ladder is going to cost me more than $100 anyways. May I ask where you got the instructions for building your crane?

No plans or blueprint. Everything at the Home Depot except for the stop sign square stock that is available in several guages so it slides inside each peice getting smaller the further away from the fulcrum.

The heavy caster has its wheel removed and a stub welded on to fit on the speaker stand. The built in bearing is perfect. The sign post stock is drilled all the way down so only a nut and bolt are needed where the wheel used to be.

Add a painters pole for tilt control at the end of the boom. Weights from the use it again store. Mounted to threaded rod.

I'll take a photo next time I rig it together....

Cool. I'd love to see a pic.

I recommend having quite a few grips there to hold you steady if you're going up 24 feet. I was on a 20-footer about 3 months ago, changing the bulbs in some ceiling mounted spotlights. That ladder was NOT steady. I definitely recommend some people to stabilize things. Rather common sense, but I just thought I'd throw it out there.

Yeah, especially since one of the shots will be on grass (unstable perhaps?) and the other will be over pavement (ouch?). d:-)

I'll probably also throw some sandbags across the bottom steps.

Well, I found a ladder online today that is 10' with a nice standing platform on the top. It has a "safety railing" on 3 sides at 12', which is where I would rig up the camera. It's not as high as I wanted, but it'll have to do. Thanks for all the suggestions everyone.

I may have skimmed past someone answering this, but if you want to use scaffolding and can't find it call your local film gear rental house. They may not carry any but if they're anything like the one I work for they'll find it and gladly sub-rent to you.

Hey, Travis- Share the link with the rest of us?

high shots
 

Travis, appears you have already gotten some good advice. I recently used a fork lift with a pallet on the forks, shot from twenty feet high. The lift was quiet and allowed movement as well.

Rand






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failure can not contend with persistence

Perhaps this is ok in Uganda BUT!!!!
 

Nice tip above but some sage advice:

If you work higher than 10 feet even in a cage you must wear and use properly fall restraint equipment. Failure to do so can result in 3 possible outcomes 2 of which are quite undesirable.
1. Nothing. Everything will be ok and nobody gets hurt.
2. You fall and are seriously injured causing your client much greif and unwanted attention from the WSIB and the labour inspector.
3.You don't fall but the labour inspector fines you and the company for allowing such a contravention of the OHSA. About $1 large in fines and you get fired from the job.

Proceed with care and due diligence.

Good points. For me a forklift wouldn't work because of the shoot in the park, and even getting one up on the top floor of a parking garage might be a hassle, but still a good idea for other situations. Thanks.

In case anyone is looking for a nice jib which allows pan and tilt, check out one made by Dykortech.

http://www.dykortech.com/

I had a chance to try one at NAB and liked the way it was built. It also handled very smoothly with no unwanted wobble or vibration.

Price wasn't bad, all things considered.

That does seem pretty decent overall. I've never used a jib. How's the learning curve?

I spent about five minutes with it and started to get the hang of it. The person who built the jib asked if I'd ever used one before and seemed surprised to hear that I hadn't. Of course I nearly bopped someone in the head at one point, but I'm a novice.

Which brings up another point: someone who has spent a lot of time in production mentioned that jibs usually have operators working with spotters to prevent possible problems like that. Something to consider when working over a crowd.

You can rent a gradall from a local hardware rental store for significantly less than what you can probably rent one made specifically for video making. They extend over 30 ft in the air and have a nice big platform to stand on.

-Sam

A gradall? Never heard of that before.

Travis- What is the link to that ladder with the platform?

Just wanted to throw the thought out there that with just about any of the options mentioned, using a wide angle lens on your camera - if you have one - will make the shot seem like it's from higher up than it is. So that 10' or 12' ladder might do the trick.

Have fun!

Rob

Gradall
 

I vote for the Gradall.

Thanks for the link Travis.

Keith, you bet.

Rob, the only issue with a wide-angle lens is that you don't want the legs of the ladder showing. This is a direct overhead shot of the subject, so the complication becomes getting the camera high enough and far enough from the ladder.

Around here we still can find some sympatric volunteers to help out.
You might consider your local fire dept. A donation to the stations fireman fund would not hurt. :-)
Of course it was done with the provision that if there was a fire we had to stop.

http://cinebydesign.net/film/ladder.jpg

Bill

Unfortunately this is for a television commercial, for a paying client. I don't feel right asking for people to volunteer time/equipment for a project I'm making a profit on.

That’s why I suggested the donation.