The Passion at DVinfo.net

Mark Moore · July 18th, 2003, 08:55 AM

Anyone been keeping up with this? Mel Gibson's upcoming movie about Christ? Spoken entirely in Aramaic and Latin (with 'reluctant' subtitles, according Empire Online).

I just watched the trailer and it looks like a very good film (I wouldn't expect less from Gibson!).

http://www.aintitcool.com/ThePassion.mov

I am not a big Shakespeare fan, but thoroughly enjoyed HAMLET with Gibson. Therfore, I'll definitely go see THE PASSION!

Empire online describes it as having "humiliation, torture and buckets of blood . . .". Definitely not a typical feel-good movie about Christ. I imagine more historically accurate (if anyone actually knows for sure!).

http://www.empireonline.co.uk/news/news.asp?story=4882

Watch the trailer and judge for yourself.

K. Forman · July 18th, 2003, 09:53 AM

I heard about that... Latin and Aramaic? Gee it had to be hard to get a role in that film! "Do you speak Latin and Aramaic?" "No, but I know some French." "Sorry!" It will be a hard movie for me to enjoy, cause I don't like subtitles. They take away from the performance.

Nigel Moore · July 18th, 2003, 10:02 AM

Not so historically accurate as to have a Jew play the title role though :-/

K. Forman · July 18th, 2003, 10:17 AM

Like Braveheart, where an Aussi played a Scottish folkhero?

Mark Moore · July 18th, 2003, 11:10 AM

I'm not sure if the subtitles will bother me or not. I like foreign films and the trailer for TP looks very good.

Certainly not to take away from screenwriters (or any writers!), but if movies are a visual medium (in general), then it may be entertaining without understanding the dialogue!

I'll see it anyway. It will definitely be different!

Robert Knecht Schmidt · July 18th, 2003, 11:32 AM

And not so historically accurate as to get the placement of the nails right. Experimental evidence shows that if one were to crucify a full-grown man with nails through his palms, his weight would just tear the nails through his hands. If nails were used--and there is evidence that victims were nailed in the 1st Century--the placement would have been between the radius and cubitus. Roman documentary evidence validates this nail placement.

Also in that period, the cross would not have been a crux immissa (Latin cross, shaped like a +) but more likely a crux commissa (Tau cross, shaped like a T). The condemned would have carried only the patibulum (crossbeam), not the stipes (upright portion), which would have been permanently fixed at the execution site.

Both of these factoids are have been common knowledge to Christian scholars for some decades, so it's surprising to see a movie released in 2003 that still gets them wrong.

Imran Zaidi · July 18th, 2003, 12:13 PM

Trouble with religious flicks is that everything you do is subject to being considered blasphemy by someone else. There are many religions and variations on those religions that all have very different takes on Jesus. For example, Catholics, Unitarians, various Protestants and Muslims all believe in Jesus as being a holy figure of some sort - but all very differently. There's just no way you could make a film about it and not offend at least 50% of the populace...

K. Forman · July 18th, 2003, 02:59 PM

Kevin Smith managed to piss off 90% of the churches with Dogma :)

Nigel Moore · July 18th, 2003, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Like Braveheart, where an Aussi played a Scottish folkhero?

More like Braveheart, where an Aussi misplayed a Scottish folkhero!

Quote:

Trouble with religious flicks is that everything you do is subject to being considered blasphemy by someone else. There are many religions and variations on those religions that all have very different takes on Jesus. For example, Catholics...

Strange things is, of course, that although Gibson's a Catholic, Jesus wasn't a Christian! ha ha ha

Mark Moore · July 18th, 2003, 05:54 PM

I agree with Imran that any religious film will get grief from someone. I remember when LAST TEMPTATION OF CHRIST came out and it was being creamed by various groups (most who had not seen it!).

I wonder which groups (and for what reason) will bash PASSION? I still think it will be a well-made film, with a much different slant on the Gospel (at least told more graphically). I'm actually looking forward to it!

Imran Zaidi · July 18th, 2003, 06:40 PM

I, for one, welcome any re-telling of the tale from a different angle, being largely unhappy with most portrayals thus far. I'm sorry, I just can't reconcile myself with the visions of Jesus in Hollywood thus far - blonde hair and blue eyes? Please. If we can't even get Hollywood to have a non-Fabio looking Jesus, how can we expect them to tell the tale without serious question of their true intentions behind the production?

They say the Bible is the most sold book of all time. I guess Hollywood is trying to cash in on that hype? Jeez. (pun intended). :P

K. Forman · July 18th, 2003, 06:46 PM

As far as I can figure, Jesus was actually dark skinned, not Caucasion. Of course, that would just send the world into a tizzy, wouldn't it?

Mark Moore · July 18th, 2003, 09:31 PM

Has there ever been a film about the Gospels (or Christ) that used dark-skinned actors for all characters? You would think that with all of the movie making around the world, there would be one somewhere, but maybe not!

Hmm. It could make an interesting short - if all actors were cast 'nationality-appropriate looking'.

This is dangerous for me. Now I something to think about! I would love to shoot a religious short like that. It wouldn't have to be the last three days - it could be any part of his life. Hmm.

John Locke · July 18th, 2003, 10:16 PM

Mark,

That is interesting that no major films on Christianity, casting all actors of Middle Eastern descent, comes to mind. Sounds like you're on to something.

K. Forman · July 19th, 2003, 05:31 AM

I have also seen Documentarys that have said Christ was even darker than that. They showed a "Holy" island in or near Ethiopia, where Christ is supposed to have visited. Mind you, these monks have a tremendous reputation for accurate historical documentation. They showed a painting of the Christ child with his Mother, and they were clearly of black descent.

July 18th, 2003, 08:55 AM	#1
Mark Moore Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: North Carolina Posts: 301	The Passion Anyone been keeping up with this? Mel Gibson's upcoming movie about Christ? Spoken entirely in Aramaic and Latin (with 'reluctant' subtitles, according Empire Online). I just watched the trailer and it looks like a very good film (I wouldn't expect less from Gibson!). http://www.aintitcool.com/ThePassion.mov I am not a big Shakespeare fan, but thoroughly enjoyed HAMLET with Gibson. Therfore, I'll definitely go see THE PASSION! Empire online describes it as having "humiliation, torture and buckets of blood . . .". Definitely not a typical feel-good movie about Christ. I imagine more historically accurate (if anyone actually knows for sure!). http://www.empireonline.co.uk/news/news.asp?story=4882 Watch the trailer and judge for yourself. __________________ Mark Moore Sugar Free Productions

July 18th, 2003, 11:10 AM	#5
Mark Moore Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: North Carolina Posts: 301	I'm not sure if the subtitles will bother me or not. I like foreign films and the trailer for TP looks very good. Certainly not to take away from screenwriters (or any writers!), but if movies are a visual medium (in general), then it may be entertaining without understanding the dialogue! I'll see it anyway. It will definitely be different! __________________ Mark Moore Sugar Free Productions

July 18th, 2003, 11:32 AM	#6
Robert Knecht Schmidt Wrangler Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Cleveland, Ohio Posts: 1,933	And not so historically accurate as to get the placement of the nails right. Experimental evidence shows that if one were to crucify a full-grown man with nails through his palms, his weight would just tear the nails through his hands. If nails were used--and there is evidence that victims were nailed in the 1st Century--the placement would have been between the radius and cubitus. Roman documentary evidence validates this nail placement. Also in that period, the cross would not have been a crux immissa (Latin cross, shaped like a +) but more likely a crux commissa (Tau cross, shaped like a T). The condemned would have carried only the patibulum (crossbeam), not the stipes (upright portion), which would have been permanently fixed at the execution site. Both of these factoids are have been common knowledge to Christian scholars for some decades, so it's surprising to see a movie released in 2003 that still gets them wrong. __________________ All the best, Robert K S Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| The best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

July 18th, 2003, 05:54 PM	#10
Mark Moore Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: North Carolina Posts: 301	I agree with Imran that any religious film will get grief from someone. I remember when LAST TEMPTATION OF CHRIST came out and it was being creamed by various groups (most who had not seen it!). I wonder which groups (and for what reason) will bash PASSION? I still think it will be a well-made film, with a much different slant on the Gospel (at least told more graphically). I'm actually looking forward to it! __________________ Mark Moore Sugar Free Productions

July 18th, 2003, 09:31 PM	#13
Mark Moore Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: North Carolina Posts: 301	Has there ever been a film about the Gospels (or Christ) that used dark-skinned actors for all characters? You would think that with all of the movie making around the world, there would be one somewhere, but maybe not! Hmm. It could make an interesting short - if all actors were cast 'nationality-appropriate looking'. This is dangerous for me. Now I something to think about! I would love to shoot a religious short like that. It wouldn't have to be the last three days - it could be any part of his life. Hmm. __________________ Mark Moore Sugar Free Productions

July 18th, 2003, 09:53 AM	#2
K. Forman Capt. Quirk Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Middle of the woods in Georgia Posts: 3,596	I heard about that... Latin and Aramaic? Gee it had to be hard to get a role in that film! "Do you speak Latin and Aramaic?" "No, but I know some French." "Sorry!" It will be a hard movie for me to enjoy, cause I don't like subtitles. They take away from the performance.

July 18th, 2003, 10:02 AM	#3
Nigel Moore Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: Switzerland Posts: 358	Not so historically accurate as to have a Jew play the title role though :-/

July 18th, 2003, 10:17 AM	#4
K. Forman Capt. Quirk Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Middle of the woods in Georgia Posts: 3,596	Like Braveheart, where an Aussi played a Scottish folkhero?

July 18th, 2003, 12:13 PM	#7
Imran Zaidi Trustee Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 1,315	Trouble with religious flicks is that everything you do is subject to being considered blasphemy by someone else. There are many religions and variations on those religions that all have very different takes on Jesus. For example, Catholics, Unitarians, various Protestants and Muslims all believe in Jesus as being a holy figure of some sort - but all very differently. There's just no way you could make a film about it and not offend at least 50% of the populace...

July 18th, 2003, 02:59 PM	#8
K. Forman Capt. Quirk Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Middle of the woods in Georgia Posts: 3,596	Kevin Smith managed to piss off 90% of the churches with Dogma :)

July 18th, 2003, 06:40 PM	#11
Imran Zaidi Trustee Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 1,315	I, for one, welcome any re-telling of the tale from a different angle, being largely unhappy with most portrayals thus far. I'm sorry, I just can't reconcile myself with the visions of Jesus in Hollywood thus far - blonde hair and blue eyes? Please. If we can't even get Hollywood to have a non-Fabio looking Jesus, how can we expect them to tell the tale without serious question of their true intentions behind the production? They say the Bible is the most sold book of all time. I guess Hollywood is trying to cash in on that hype? Jeez. (pun intended). :P

July 18th, 2003, 06:46 PM	#12
K. Forman Capt. Quirk Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Middle of the woods in Georgia Posts: 3,596	As far as I can figure, Jesus was actually dark skinned, not Caucasion. Of course, that would just send the world into a tizzy, wouldn't it?

July 18th, 2003, 10:16 PM	#14
John Locke Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Austin, TX USA Posts: 2,882	Mark, That is interesting that no major films on Christianity, casting all actors of Middle Eastern descent, comes to mind. Sounds like you're on to something. __________________ John Locke SursumFilms.com

July 19th, 2003, 05:31 AM	#15
K. Forman Capt. Quirk Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Middle of the woods in Georgia Posts: 3,596	I have also seen Documentarys that have said Christ was even darker than that. They showed a "Holy" island in or near Ethiopia, where Christ is supposed to have visited. Mind you, these monks have a tremendous reputation for accurate historical documentation. They showed a painting of the Christ child with his Mother, and they were clearly of black descent.