MJ Doc

Brian Pink · February 7th, 2003, 12:13 AM

well, i watched it. and i came away disturbed alright. disturbed about the documentarian. disturbed about Joe Jackson. and disturbed that no one in the american media can understand what someone like michael jackson is about. clearly he's had some problems in his life. clearly his own appearance is a big one. but when he says "of course the kids sleep over! i sleep on the floor and give them the bed!", and no one on 20/20 can remember being a teenager and sleeping over at a friend's house, staying in the same room just so you could talk until you fell asleep, that is disturbing. i feel sorry for michael. that man has and continues to have some major issues. and i feel awful that the "documentarian" that brought us the story isn't even half human. ug.

i don't want to post any more to this thread, i don't want to argue if you disagree, i just wanted to express my disgust with this piece of media. thanks for listening, i appreciate the opportunity to express myself.

- brian

Ken Tanaka · February 7th, 2003, 12:37 AM

Brian,
I did not watch the program. All I know about comes from the thread Joe Carney started as well as from some of the press and teasers. I'm also not a Michael Jackson fan or close follower, being from a generation (or so) before his prime time.

But I can say that the network, the program's sponsors and Michael Jackson would all be saying "Gotcha!" to anyone who watched the program. Mr. Jackson has built great wealth principally from publicity, good and bad, surrounding his eccentricities. This seems like just another instance of a very clever ploy to leverage the public's voyueristic attraction to boost a flagging public presence.

Whether or not Mr. Jackson was treated "fairly" or "unfairly" in the program is immaterial to all involved parties. I can assure you that he has more than sufficient financial and legal resources to decline participation in such a project and to halt its airing if he or his handlers felt that it would be harmful to his long-term prospects. He clearly feels that he needs all of the current buzz he can get. He sees that he's rapidly slipping into a music history footnote.

Brian Pink · February 7th, 2003, 09:31 AM

that's a good call Ken. i fell victim to the marketing! ah well, right after watching i was just pretty discouraged about documentaries, which is not good since i'm working on one as we speak. but today is a new day!

Rick Spilman · February 7th, 2003, 10:25 AM

"Whether or not Mr. Jackson was treated "fairly" or "unfairly" in the program is immaterial to all involved parties."

This seems a lot less of a documentary than a single episode version of the Anna Nicole Show.

With the ratings that "Joe Millionaire", "Fear Factor" and this garbage seem to attract, it makes me wonder when Jerry Springer secretly took over televison. Why does anyone watch this crap?

Oh well.

Rhett Allen · February 7th, 2003, 11:25 AM

I did not watch it, never even had plans to. It was obviously a HUGE publicity stunt and it worked! Ken is right, MJ has enough money to have had this stopped if he really wanted to. He had to SAY he was upset just to keep the spin doctors and media hype active enough to boost ratings so the commercials that would play durring the show could be charged plenty of money. It wouldn't surprise me at all if it was entirely his idea to gain a little spotlight again and make people feel sorry for him for being a complete FREAK! (he does have talent though)

The tremendous amount of crap on TV these days just goes to show how stupid we are becoming as a people (especially Americans). I watch less TV than the average person (maybe 8 hours a week +or-, DVD's included) and from what I've seen, and the reason I turn off my TV, is that it is ALL a publicity stunt. Fear Factor is just "grose factor" (nothing really scary happens) and shows like Joe Millionaire just glamorize money grubbing, shallow, women and men who lie to them. Nevermind having and promoting a society of people who like each other because they are people, and not because they are greedy or stupid.

Jerry- Give back TV!

p.s. as much as I love "24", it even makes me crazy with the stupid people. I hope Kim dies off this season, she's dumb.

Don Bloom · February 7th, 2003, 02:18 PM

I really don't waste my time watching the "reality shows" but every once in a while when surfing I hit 1, and I have to admit that it can be easy to be drawn into them. I know people who set their lives around them and IMHO therein lies the problem. It seems that if people had a life of their own they wouldn't need to watch these shows. Now I'm not saying they are all bad, there are some very good ones on (mostly on cable; IE Discovery and TLC) but everyonce in a while the big 3 get 1 also. LAst year ABC had a pretty good one I believe it was called Houston Medical. However it seems that the ones on the major networks today are not even reality, I mean come on. People, get a life! Spend some time with your family, your own dog or cat or even heaven forbid with your spouse! Life is not Joe Millionaire or The Bachalorette, although she is cute! Let's get some good stuff back on TV. I don't know what but not the reality crap! (forgive me for making a general statement, I'm sure that some people watch for the inherent intrinisic or artisitic value)
OK, I feel better now that I've said my peace, back to decaf!

Matt Betea · February 7th, 2003, 08:40 PM

it's a shame with all these "reality" shows. i used to have respect for mark burnett when he was just pushing eco-challenge. now even that is garbage along with his other creations. a shame.

Nick Kerpchar · February 8th, 2003, 07:01 AM

IMHO, Rhett is right in his opinion of the viewing American public. TV has "dumbed down" to a certain level. I see this in many of the individuals at the place I work.... frightening. It is no wonder that one of the main camera techniques used on TV today is this whirly, twirley, zoom stuff. It is the same technique one can use with animals to keep their attention.

Nick

John Locke · February 8th, 2003, 07:41 AM

Whirly, twirley, zoom stuff? You ain't seen nothin' till you've seen Japanese TV!

Rik Sanchez · February 8th, 2003, 08:28 AM

I'm lucky in that I've never have seen all those reality shows, having lived in Japan for the last 12 years. Although I wish I could have seen the show Seinfield, I heard it was a great show.

Yeah John, Japanese tv sucks, I don't even watch it any more, about the only thing I see is star trek which I can catch three times a week.

My sister talks about some show, american idol or something like that, she's offered to tape those shows plus the reality shows and send them to me but I tell her not to, I have better things to do.

I'm sure most of us on this board have so much editing and shooting and stuff we want to make that we don't have time to sit in front of the tv to watch all that garbage. In fact I got some videos tonight but I'm tired of seeing those also so I guess I'll finish reading The Two Towers.

The only reason I got a video tonight is my wife heard about a movie that was shot in El Paso, the movie Committed, with Heather Graham. So I went out to Tsutaya to get it and it was great seeing a movie with footage from back home.

The good thing about bad shows on tv is there is a great way to avoid them, just don't watch them.

I haven't heard if they will show the MJ Doc here in Japan, if they do, I won't even see it, but when they have a show about him where his nose finally falls off, then I will check that out.

Joe Carney · February 8th, 2003, 12:29 PM

My original post was more as an interest to film and documentary makers. Not an endorsement or anything.
Ken, MJ did try to stop it's airing in the UK and lost.
Was it publicity? It always is when money is involved. I think MJ though he had more control over the final edit and realized too late he didn't.

I read with amusement the posts about the dumbing down of TV.

TV has been dumbed down starting in the late 50s. In the early 70s when Happy Days became a series based on the smash nostalgic hit 'American Graffiti' every one was decrying the dumbing down of television.
Same crap, different decade.
Of course there was ground breaking stuff like All in the family, which in todays PC facist environment would never get aired outside of premium cable.

After the investigation by the House committee on UnAmercan Acvtivities(McCarthyism), TV never again tried to take risks like in it's infancy. (I'm excluding premium cable networks, though they are not much better). We've been dumbed down for so long, we really don't know how dumb we are. Timidity and greed.

The end really came when news departments were requred to make a profit. Hence shows like the MJ documentary. There was a time when no self respecting news department would give stuff like that the time of day.

Rhett Allen · February 8th, 2003, 01:46 PM

I was reading an article over at the BBC yesterday and they commented on how this whole ordeal has earned MJ a ton of new sympathy from people because of his "unfair treatment" and they listed as an added bonus that "Thriller" and "Billy Jean" sales were up 463%!!!

I guess it worked just as planned.

I would have a hard time even considering something like that a "Documentary", from the way it sounds it should be a "Jackass" episode or an info-mercial.
I can understanding watching it from a film/video professional level, I mean, I've actually seen shows like Joe Millionairre and Fear Factor, that's how I know they suck SOO bad. I just can't bring myself to watch everything because I know from the commercials that it's gonna be for the bottom of the barrel. Can you believe I have never seen a Survivor show? Well not the whole thing, I see commercials for it and that pretty much covered every season, style, and episode.
And Rik, Seinfield was great, American Idol was a JOKE (and the record companies wonder why they a losing Billions when they sign no-talent like this) and I love Japanimation. It is starting to pick up an audience here. That is where TV ideas should come from, Animie, cartoons with a moral story.

The other thing I can't stand is that ridiculous SPAMMING of on-screen advertising for the networks other shows coming on. I guess they did that to maximize ad revenue and combat the guys like me who can just Tivo or skip over the commercials, BUT I HATE IT!...but I guess that's another story of disgust.

Nick Kerpchar · February 9th, 2003, 11:43 AM

Rhett, right again.

Nick

February 7th, 2003, 12:13 AM	#1
Brian Pink Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 94	MJ Doc - Reaction well, i watched it. and i came away disturbed alright. disturbed about the documentarian. disturbed about Joe Jackson. and disturbed that no one in the american media can understand what someone like michael jackson is about. clearly he's had some problems in his life. clearly his own appearance is a big one. but when he says "of course the kids sleep over! i sleep on the floor and give them the bed!", and no one on 20/20 can remember being a teenager and sleeping over at a friend's house, staying in the same room just so you could talk until you fell asleep, that is disturbing. i feel sorry for michael. that man has and continues to have some major issues. and i feel awful that the "documentarian" that brought us the story isn't even half human. ug. i don't want to post any more to this thread, i don't want to argue if you disagree, i just wanted to express my disgust with this piece of media. thanks for listening, i appreciate the opportunity to express myself. - brian __________________ This is the way the world ends.

February 7th, 2003, 12:37 AM	#2
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	Brian, I did not watch the program. All I know about comes from the thread Joe Carney started as well as from some of the press and teasers. I'm also not a Michael Jackson fan or close follower, being from a generation (or so) before his prime time. But I can say that the network, the program's sponsors and Michael Jackson would all be saying "Gotcha!" to anyone who watched the program. Mr. Jackson has built great wealth principally from publicity, good and bad, surrounding his eccentricities. This seems like just another instance of a very clever ploy to leverage the public's voyueristic attraction to boost a flagging public presence. Whether or not Mr. Jackson was treated "fairly" or "unfairly" in the program is immaterial to all involved parties. I can assure you that he has more than sufficient financial and legal resources to decline participation in such a project and to halt its airing if he or his handlers felt that it would be harmful to his long-term prospects. He clearly feels that he needs all of the current buzz he can get. He sees that he's rapidly slipping into a music history footnote. __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

February 7th, 2003, 09:31 AM	#3
Brian Pink Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 94	that's a good call Ken. i fell victim to the marketing! ah well, right after watching i was just pretty discouraged about documentaries, which is not good since i'm working on one as we speak. but today is a new day! __________________ This is the way the world ends.

February 7th, 2003, 08:40 PM	#7
Matt Betea Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: detroit, mi Posts: 187	sorta off topic it's a shame with all these "reality" shows. i used to have respect for mark burnett when he was just pushing eco-challenge. now even that is garbage along with his other creations. a shame.

February 8th, 2003, 07:41 AM	#9
John Locke Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Austin, TX USA Posts: 2,882	Whirly, twirley, zoom stuff? You ain't seen nothin' till you've seen Japanese TV! __________________ John Locke SursumFilms.com

February 7th, 2003, 10:25 AM	#4
Rick Spilman Major Player Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Jersey City, NJ Posts: 366	"Whether or not Mr. Jackson was treated "fairly" or "unfairly" in the program is immaterial to all involved parties." This seems a lot less of a documentary than a single episode version of the Anna Nicole Show. With the ratings that "Joe Millionaire", "Fear Factor" and this garbage seem to attract, it makes me wonder when Jerry Springer secretly took over televison. Why does anyone watch this crap? Oh well.

February 7th, 2003, 11:25 AM	#5
Rhett Allen Major Player Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Plano, TX Posts: 607	I did not watch it, never even had plans to. It was obviously a HUGE publicity stunt and it worked! Ken is right, MJ has enough money to have had this stopped if he really wanted to. He had to SAY he was upset just to keep the spin doctors and media hype active enough to boost ratings so the commercials that would play durring the show could be charged plenty of money. It wouldn't surprise me at all if it was entirely his idea to gain a little spotlight again and make people feel sorry for him for being a complete FREAK! (he does have talent though) The tremendous amount of crap on TV these days just goes to show how stupid we are becoming as a people (especially Americans). I watch less TV than the average person (maybe 8 hours a week +or-, DVD's included) and from what I've seen, and the reason I turn off my TV, is that it is ALL a publicity stunt. Fear Factor is just "grose factor" (nothing really scary happens) and shows like Joe Millionaire just glamorize money grubbing, shallow, women and men who lie to them. Nevermind having and promoting a society of people who like each other because they are people, and not because they are greedy or stupid. Jerry- Give back TV! p.s. as much as I love "24", it even makes me crazy with the stupid people. I hope Kim dies off this season, she's dumb.

February 7th, 2003, 02:18 PM	#6
Don Bloom Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,609	I really don't waste my time watching the "reality shows" but every once in a while when surfing I hit 1, and I have to admit that it can be easy to be drawn into them. I know people who set their lives around them and IMHO therein lies the problem. It seems that if people had a life of their own they wouldn't need to watch these shows. Now I'm not saying they are all bad, there are some very good ones on (mostly on cable; IE Discovery and TLC) but everyonce in a while the big 3 get 1 also. LAst year ABC had a pretty good one I believe it was called Houston Medical. However it seems that the ones on the major networks today are not even reality, I mean come on. People, get a life! Spend some time with your family, your own dog or cat or even heaven forbid with your spouse! Life is not Joe Millionaire or The Bachalorette, although she is cute! Let's get some good stuff back on TV. I don't know what but not the reality crap! (forgive me for making a general statement, I'm sure that some people watch for the inherent intrinisic or artisitic value) OK, I feel better now that I've said my peace, back to decaf!

February 8th, 2003, 07:01 AM	#8
Nick Kerpchar Major Player Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 211	IMHO, Rhett is right in his opinion of the viewing American public. TV has "dumbed down" to a certain level. I see this in many of the individuals at the place I work.... frightening. It is no wonder that one of the main camera techniques used on TV today is this whirly, twirley, zoom stuff. It is the same technique one can use with animals to keep their attention. Nick

February 8th, 2003, 08:28 AM	#10
Rik Sanchez ChorizoSmells Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Osaka, Japan Posts: 424	I'm lucky in that I've never have seen all those reality shows, having lived in Japan for the last 12 years. Although I wish I could have seen the show Seinfield, I heard it was a great show. Yeah John, Japanese tv sucks, I don't even watch it any more, about the only thing I see is star trek which I can catch three times a week. My sister talks about some show, american idol or something like that, she's offered to tape those shows plus the reality shows and send them to me but I tell her not to, I have better things to do. I'm sure most of us on this board have so much editing and shooting and stuff we want to make that we don't have time to sit in front of the tv to watch all that garbage. In fact I got some videos tonight but I'm tired of seeing those also so I guess I'll finish reading The Two Towers. The only reason I got a video tonight is my wife heard about a movie that was shot in El Paso, the movie Committed, with Heather Graham. So I went out to Tsutaya to get it and it was great seeing a movie with footage from back home. The good thing about bad shows on tv is there is a great way to avoid them, just don't watch them. I haven't heard if they will show the MJ Doc here in Japan, if they do, I won't even see it, but when they have a show about him where his nose finally falls off, then I will check that out. __________________ ChorizoSmells Video Barrio Tamatsukuri, Osaka, JAPAN

February 8th, 2003, 12:29 PM	#11
Joe Carney Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Centreville Va Posts: 1,828	My original post was more as an interest to film and documentary makers. Not an endorsement or anything. Ken, MJ did try to stop it's airing in the UK and lost. Was it publicity? It always is when money is involved. I think MJ though he had more control over the final edit and realized too late he didn't. I read with amusement the posts about the dumbing down of TV. TV has been dumbed down starting in the late 50s. In the early 70s when Happy Days became a series based on the smash nostalgic hit 'American Graffiti' every one was decrying the dumbing down of television. Same crap, different decade. Of course there was ground breaking stuff like All in the family, which in todays PC facist environment would never get aired outside of premium cable. After the investigation by the House committee on UnAmercan Acvtivities(McCarthyism), TV never again tried to take risks like in it's infancy. (I'm excluding premium cable networks, though they are not much better). We've been dumbed down for so long, we really don't know how dumb we are. Timidity and greed. The end really came when news departments were requred to make a profit. Hence shows like the MJ documentary. There was a time when no self respecting news department would give stuff like that the time of day.

February 8th, 2003, 01:46 PM	#12
Rhett Allen Major Player Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Plano, TX Posts: 607	I was reading an article over at the BBC yesterday and they commented on how this whole ordeal has earned MJ a ton of new sympathy from people because of his "unfair treatment" and they listed as an added bonus that "Thriller" and "Billy Jean" sales were up 463%!!! I guess it worked just as planned. I would have a hard time even considering something like that a "Documentary", from the way it sounds it should be a "Jackass" episode or an info-mercial. I can understanding watching it from a film/video professional level, I mean, I've actually seen shows like Joe Millionairre and Fear Factor, that's how I know they suck SOO bad. I just can't bring myself to watch everything because I know from the commercials that it's gonna be for the bottom of the barrel. Can you believe I have never seen a Survivor show? Well not the whole thing, I see commercials for it and that pretty much covered every season, style, and episode. And Rik, Seinfield was great, American Idol was a JOKE (and the record companies wonder why they a losing Billions when they sign no-talent like this) and I love Japanimation. It is starting to pick up an audience here. That is where TV ideas should come from, Animie, cartoons with a moral story. The other thing I can't stand is that ridiculous SPAMMING of on-screen advertising for the networks other shows coming on. I guess they did that to maximize ad revenue and combat the guys like me who can just Tivo or skip over the commercials, BUT I HATE IT!...but I guess that's another story of disgust.

February 9th, 2003, 11:43 AM	#13
Nick Kerpchar Major Player Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 211	Rhett, right again. Nick