Which of these bogens for small Camera? at DVinfo.net

Tavis Shaver · February 23rd, 2004, 06:46 PM

I'm going to pair a 501 head with either the 755b MDeVe legs or the 3181 legs. Which one would be best? The camera is a Panasonic PV-DV953.
The 3181:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...=191747&is=REG

The 755B
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...=272836&is=REG

The Centre column on the 755 looks like it could provide some cool options by offsetting the camera from the centre of the legs, but i'm worried that it will make the whole thing less sturdy.

Thoughts?

Frank Granovski · February 23rd, 2004, 09:40 PM

I have the Manfrotto 055pro legs with the Manfrotto 128RC head---a perfect combo for the MX300 and DVL9500's.

http://www.manfrotto.com

Tavis Shaver · February 23rd, 2004, 10:20 PM

yeah? Can it compare with a 501 head though?

What do you think about the two legs i posted?

Frank Granovski · February 24th, 2004, 03:11 AM

Quote:

yeah? Can it compare with a 501 head though?

The 501 is a true fluid head whereas the 128RC is a fluid-action head. Why do want a 501 for such a small, light cam?

Quote:

What do you think about the two legs i posted?

What are the Manfrotto codes for those USA/Bogan legs?

Tavis Shaver · February 24th, 2004, 09:00 AM

well i thought that the 501 would last a long time and if i ended up getting a bigger camera, or making a static35 with rails, it'd take the other wieght.

http://www.manfrotto.com/product/tem...99&itemid=1976

The 3181's are the 351MV legs outside the US. And the 755b is just called the MDeVe ALUMINUM VIDEO TRIPOD outside.

Frank Granovski · February 24th, 2004, 03:05 PM

I would go to Leo's, Downtown Granville, and take a look at them. This will help you decide what you need.

Carlos E. Martinez · February 24th, 2004, 07:06 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Tavis Shaver : I'm going to pair a 501 head with either the 755b MDeVe legs or the 3181 legs. Which one would be best? The camera is a Panasonic PV-DV953.
The 3181:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...=191747&is=REG

The 755B
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...=272836&is=REG

The Centre column on the 755 looks like it could provide some cool options by offsetting the camera from the centre of the legs, but i'm worried that it will make the whole thing less sturdy.

Thoughts? -->>>

You reasoning, your guesses and your worries are basically right.

The only reason to go for single telescopic legs (755B) is lightness. Everything else will be worst.

The reason for using a tripod is absolute steadiness when you are doing a pan or a tilt or both. Thinner legs or a column will hold your camera more lightly and less "isolated" than triangle-telescopic legs (3181).

A basic fluid head is also essential, even if the camera is the lightest you can find. People use to think of the camera weight as essential to picking a fluid head, and it's not. This should be firmly stated. If you could afford the price and weight of a REAL fluid head (Miller, Sachtler, Cartoni), you should go for it.

The basic thing is that the head should do the movement, and between it and the tripod they should filter/isolate external factors, like vibrations or unsteadiness in the movement. Think of the head/tripod as a boompole/suspension holding a microphone. That's the principle.

Get the best fluid head your budget can afford, but start with sturdier legs, like the 3181.

Carlos

Frank Granovski · February 24th, 2004, 08:10 PM

Manfrotto 055pro legs are very sturdy and the Manfrotto 128RC head is very smooth.

Tavis Shaver · February 24th, 2004, 09:52 PM

hmm i think that i might go with the sturdier 3181's with the 501 head, i don't have the budget for a true fluid head.

Frank Granovski · February 25th, 2004, 01:35 AM

Isn't the 501 a fluid head? I had the 136, which was a fluid action, but it was pretty smooth, but not as smooth as my wife's cousin's 501. (He uses the 501 for the XL1, mainly.) I suggest going to Leo's and having a look. They pretty much have all the Manfrotto's in stock and are the Miller Canada distributor---so you can check out Millers also, to compare them with some of the Manfrotto's.

Tavis Shaver · February 25th, 2004, 01:43 AM

apparently the 501 and the 503 aren't actually fluid heads, if you look on the manfrotto website i think it has them down as "fluid action" but i could be mistaken about the actual wording.

How are the prices on the millers at leos? Would there be any decent miller head/pod combos around the $500 cdn mark? Can you recommend some model#'s? Maybe i'll go there and check em out after class tomorow.

Frank Granovski · February 25th, 2004, 03:27 AM

I'd forget the Millers, they're way over $500. I believe the DS5 is the smallest Miller head. But in all honesty, you shouldn't go wrong with the Manfrotto 055pro/128RC for your cam. These legs are about $220 and the head $129, so this will be under $500 Canadian (after you include the 14.5% GST/PST tax). It's probably cheaper from B&H, but you'll also have to factor in the exchange and shipping. Our Dollar is now at 75.22 US.

Carlos E. Martinez · February 25th, 2004, 06:12 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Frank Granovski : Manfrotto 055pro legs are very sturdy and the Manfrotto 128RC head is very smooth. -->>>

You are absolutely right on the sturdiness and the smoothness of the setup you propose.

What I say is that it may not be enough. What I stand for is steadiness and "cushioned" movement.

A proof of steadiness might be to shake the tripod and see how it takes it. In every test I have done, triangle shaped legs were always more steady than telescopic legs.

Knowing what is a real fluid head and what is not may be trickier. It's quite likely the less priced types are "improved friction types", instead of real fluid. The word fluid heads comes from the liquid trapped inside separating the moving parts. They act as a cushion, a thick liquid like on Citroën cars, that prevent parts touching each other and filters the movements.

The "fire test", which you don't really need a camera for, is to make sudden and movements and counter-movements with the candidates and see which take it "cooler". A good tripod/fluid head combo shouldn't even be there for what you are doing. They should be "indifferent" to your trying to make them show their weaknesses.

Don't expect less priced types to be invulnerable to these simple tests, as they will have some weak points.

After this first test that will separate the mice from the men, you should do a final one. Put your camera on each one and go to maximum zoom, even if it's digital. Then do your movements reading letters or details, doing sudden stops or direction changes. This would be the real acid test. If possible remember how you felt with each combo and look at your test on a monitor.

The one that does better will fit your particular way to do pans and tilts.

Carlos

Tavis Shaver · February 25th, 2004, 10:44 AM

now i'm thinking that the removable center column on the 755b might be cool to have as a kind if a handle thing for the cam. Any thoughts on using it for that? The stability of the triangle legs would be cool tho.

Frank Granovski · February 25th, 2004, 02:40 PM

Wouldn't the bottom of the tube have to be weighted?

February 23rd, 2004, 06:46 PM	#1
Tavis Shaver Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Vancouver, BC. Canada Posts: 209	Which of these bogens for small Camera? I'm going to pair a 501 head with either the 755b MDeVe legs or the 3181 legs. Which one would be best? The camera is a Panasonic PV-DV953. The 3181: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...=191747&is=REG The 755B http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...=272836&is=REG The Centre column on the 755 looks like it could provide some cool options by offsetting the camera from the centre of the legs, but i'm worried that it will make the whole thing less sturdy. Thoughts?

February 24th, 2004, 07:06 PM	#7
Carlos E. Martinez Trustee Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brasil Posts: 1,138	Re: Which of these bogens for small Camera? <<<-- Originally posted by Tavis Shaver : I'm going to pair a 501 head with either the 755b MDeVe legs or the 3181 legs. Which one would be best? The camera is a Panasonic PV-DV953. The 3181: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...=191747&is=REG The 755B http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...=272836&is=REG The Centre column on the 755 looks like it could provide some cool options by offsetting the camera from the centre of the legs, but i'm worried that it will make the whole thing less sturdy. Thoughts? -->>> You reasoning, your guesses and your worries are basically right. The only reason to go for single telescopic legs (755B) is lightness. Everything else will be worst. The reason for using a tripod is absolute steadiness when you are doing a pan or a tilt or both. Thinner legs or a column will hold your camera more lightly and less "isolated" than triangle-telescopic legs (3181). A basic fluid head is also essential, even if the camera is the lightest you can find. People use to think of the camera weight as essential to picking a fluid head, and it's not. This should be firmly stated. If you could afford the price and weight of a REAL fluid head (Miller, Sachtler, Cartoni), you should go for it. The basic thing is that the head should do the movement, and between it and the tripod they should filter/isolate external factors, like vibrations or unsteadiness in the movement. Think of the head/tripod as a boompole/suspension holding a microphone. That's the principle. Get the best fluid head your budget can afford, but start with sturdier legs, like the 3181. Carlos

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February 23rd, 2004, 09:40 PM	#2
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	I have the Manfrotto 055pro legs with the Manfrotto 128RC head---a perfect combo for the MX300 and DVL9500's. http://www.manfrotto.com

February 23rd, 2004, 10:20 PM	#3
Tavis Shaver Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Vancouver, BC. Canada Posts: 209	yeah? Can it compare with a 501 head though? What do you think about the two legs i posted?

February 24th, 2004, 09:00 AM	#5
Tavis Shaver Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Vancouver, BC. Canada Posts: 209	well i thought that the 501 would last a long time and if i ended up getting a bigger camera, or making a static35 with rails, it'd take the other wieght. http://www.manfrotto.com/product/tem...99&itemid=1976 The 3181's are the 351MV legs outside the US. And the 755b is just called the MDeVe ALUMINUM VIDEO TRIPOD outside.

February 24th, 2004, 03:05 PM	#6
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	I would go to Leo's, Downtown Granville, and take a look at them. This will help you decide what you need.

February 24th, 2004, 08:10 PM	#8
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	Manfrotto 055pro legs are very sturdy and the Manfrotto 128RC head is very smooth.

February 24th, 2004, 09:52 PM	#9
Tavis Shaver Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Vancouver, BC. Canada Posts: 209	hmm i think that i might go with the sturdier 3181's with the 501 head, i don't have the budget for a true fluid head.

February 25th, 2004, 01:35 AM	#10
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	Isn't the 501 a fluid head? I had the 136, which was a fluid action, but it was pretty smooth, but not as smooth as my wife's cousin's 501. (He uses the 501 for the XL1, mainly.) I suggest going to Leo's and having a look. They pretty much have all the Manfrotto's in stock and are the Miller Canada distributor---so you can check out Millers also, to compare them with some of the Manfrotto's.

February 25th, 2004, 01:43 AM	#11
Tavis Shaver Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Vancouver, BC. Canada Posts: 209	apparently the 501 and the 503 aren't actually fluid heads, if you look on the manfrotto website i think it has them down as "fluid action" but i could be mistaken about the actual wording. How are the prices on the millers at leos? Would there be any decent miller head/pod combos around the $500 cdn mark? Can you recommend some model#'s? Maybe i'll go there and check em out after class tomorow.

February 25th, 2004, 03:27 AM	#12
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	I'd forget the Millers, they're way over $500. I believe the DS5 is the smallest Miller head. But in all honesty, you shouldn't go wrong with the Manfrotto 055pro/128RC for your cam. These legs are about $220 and the head $129, so this will be under $500 Canadian (after you include the 14.5% GST/PST tax). It's probably cheaper from B&H, but you'll also have to factor in the exchange and shipping. Our Dollar is now at 75.22 US.

February 25th, 2004, 06:12 AM	#13
Carlos E. Martinez Trustee Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brasil Posts: 1,138	<<<-- Originally posted by Frank Granovski : Manfrotto 055pro legs are very sturdy and the Manfrotto 128RC head is very smooth. -->>> You are absolutely right on the sturdiness and the smoothness of the setup you propose. What I say is that it may not be enough. What I stand for is steadiness and "cushioned" movement. A proof of steadiness might be to shake the tripod and see how it takes it. In every test I have done, triangle shaped legs were always more steady than telescopic legs. Knowing what is a real fluid head and what is not may be trickier. It's quite likely the less priced types are "improved friction types", instead of real fluid. The word fluid heads comes from the liquid trapped inside separating the moving parts. They act as a cushion, a thick liquid like on Citroën cars, that prevent parts touching each other and filters the movements. The "fire test", which you don't really need a camera for, is to make sudden and movements and counter-movements with the candidates and see which take it "cooler". A good tripod/fluid head combo shouldn't even be there for what you are doing. They should be "indifferent" to your trying to make them show their weaknesses. Don't expect less priced types to be invulnerable to these simple tests, as they will have some weak points. After this first test that will separate the mice from the men, you should do a final one. Put your camera on each one and go to maximum zoom, even if it's digital. Then do your movements reading letters or details, doing sudden stops or direction changes. This would be the real acid test. If possible remember how you felt with each combo and look at your test on a monitor. The one that does better will fit your particular way to do pans and tilts. Carlos

February 25th, 2004, 10:44 AM	#14
Tavis Shaver Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Vancouver, BC. Canada Posts: 209	now i'm thinking that the removable center column on the 755b might be cool to have as a kind if a handle thing for the cam. Any thoughts on using it for that? The stability of the triangle legs would be cool tho.

February 25th, 2004, 02:40 PM	#15
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	Wouldn't the bottom of the tube have to be weighted?