Re: Why do people use tripod legs with spreaders?
 

thats exactly the manfrotto legs I have. I liked them at first but soon the lack of a spreader and awkward action to set up and collapse/move around really pushed me away from them..

I also use a slider on my head most of the time so when I give one end a bit of a push to level it up a flat base head adjusts accordingly but a ball head moves from the ball point meaning I think I'd prefer the flat base head

Re: Why do people use tripod legs with spreaders?
 

Fully understand David.

I don't have a call for sliders on tripods so I couldn't comment on that observation. Where I find the 536s ideal is setting up shooting positions amongst seating in stadiums. It's something we have to do quite often if there is no proper camera platform.

It's these locations where the ground level spreader is useless and the mid level ones not a lot better. Doing a broadcast boxing one a couple of weeks back meant having two legs down on the level below us and the back leg passing back under and behind and through to the next row behind. This was a basketball stadium with telescopic bleacher seating. So two legs steep on the normal lock position and the third back leg locked at its flattest position. Then the whole lot was locked down with octopus straps. The camera was carrying a top viewfinder, 24x studio lens, rear controls, external recorder and three radio mics. A fairly heavy load. We couldn't get a two stage ENG with spreaders anywhere close to securely locked down in that position.

Different sticks for different jobs. I still have a set of heavy wooden Miller sticks which are the best for damping high frequency vibration. I use these filming for the Navy as some of their ships under full throttle battle stations exercises are running up to 33 knots and vibrate quite savagely. Alloy and carbon legs almost start to hum vibrate under those conditions. Regardless of legs it's always the Vinten head though.

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

Re: Why do people use tripod legs with spreaders?
 

Totally agree the manfrotto is a fantastic set of sticks and if speed wasn't an option the minimal weight, huge max height and rigidity would win over most.. It's just sadly not very quick when setting up a shit and then moving to the next 10 seconds later..

On the topic of the 536c do you know how to adjust the rigidity of the leg angle? I find when I lift mine up one of the three legs flops back down slightly but the others remain out in position..

Re: Why do people use tripod legs with spreaders?
 

Go with the best tool for the job. In my case as a nature videographer working on uneven terrain I have no use for a tripod with a spreader. More important is being able to go high and low to the ground and light weight.

Re: Why do people use tripod legs with spreaders?
 

Morning, Gents..................

Been trying to make head or tail of this update to a VERY old thread - heck, there's a post from me from 2008 fercrisakes!

Having read all the comments at least 4 times I'm still not entirely sure I've got a handle on it, but I'll give it a shot nevertheless.

First thought: A tripod, by definition, is one gigantic compromise; trade offs of rigidity vs. weight, versatility vs. rigidity, max/ min height vs.everything etc etc.

Ergo, no tripod can be perfect because perfection implies doing everything better than the camera levitating where it's put, all on its own with no support whatsoever, cool as that would be.

I'll cut to the chase and leave out the boring stuff, but lets make a few assumptions first.

Weight vs. rigidity = Below a particular weight any tripod of any design will fail to pass your rigidity pain threshold; ergo if you're anal it will be on the meaty side.

Speed vs. versatility = Spreader and leg locks. Without spreader more versatile, with spreader faster to spread legs if correctly designed; this does NOT apply to ground level spreaders as I simply have never found a use for any of the three I own!. Locks - the more of 'em there are, the bigger the pain in the ass and the slower it will be.

Assuming that ultimate versatility is NOT a primary concern, from the above we're looking for a meaty system with mid level spreader and as few leg locks as possible. Nice would be a 2:2:2 parallel tube configuration for the ultimate rigidity/ weight ratio.

The only contender I know of, gentlemen, I give you, tara............drum roll:

Speed Lock CF HD - Sachtler

No, I've never tried a set BUT I do use it's baby brother, the 75 CF's for stills work. They're light and fast to set up/ break down, only one lock per leg and that's at the top of the mid section so not too much bending, yay!.

The down side is they're only a 2:1:1 configuration which leaves them sadly lacking in the rigidity stakes and the spreader is, sob!, permanently attached. That 2:1:1 is the reason I wouldn't (and don't) use them for video.

Whether the indicated system matches your criterion David I'll leave up to you. As you're in the UK from where Sachtler gear is distributed, why not fire a mail to: Barbara.Jaumann@VitecGroup.com (I'm assuming she's still the product manager) and ask to have a trial - IF they look like a possibility.

If I've missed by a country mile, have another stab at your criterion list as I've obviously not grasped the point.

Regards,


CS

PS: These do have an intermediate sibling that's lighter and cheaper BUT bear in mind that neither comes stock with a spreader of any sort, and they're eye wateringly expensive;

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/201202-REG/Sachtler_5586_Speed_Lock_CF_Carbon_Fiber.html

These are not quite as rigid as big bro' as they're only a 2:2:1 design

Re: Why do people use tripod legs with spreaders?
 

Thank you Chris. I totally agree with everything you have said and I have indeed looked at the speed lock range in the past but got confused with the different variants at majorly fluctuating prices.. For example.. How does this compare?

Sachtler Tripod Speed Lock 75 CF - Sachtler from Tnp Broadcast UK

Re: Why do people use tripod legs with spreaders?
 

Personally I find mid-level spreaders a pain, and normally much prefer ground level spreaders. Problem with mid-level (which I had to use today - someone else's kit) is that if you want to extend the legs, the feet have to move out as the angle is fixed. And if in a restricted space that can be a pain. (Correction - WAS a pain! :-) )

With ground level, the base is fixed in size. Extending/reducing the legs doesn't alter the tripod footprint, so it tends to be much easier if working amongst obstructions.

Picking up on Christopher Young's point (uneven ground or amongst stadia seating) then yes, a ground level spreader is of no use - but in such a case I'd just take it off, possibly off just the one leg, so the two legs on the same level are still fixed relative to each other.

Re: Why do people use tripod legs with spreaders?
 

Hi, David.....................

Those 75 CF's are the very ones I mentioned I use for STILLS ONLY.

They are, IMHO, way too floppy for video and even for stills I have to ensure I'm between them and any good breeze (we get a lot of them) otherwise they wave around like a three cornered flag.

They're only a 2:1:1 configuration, the alternatives I gave you are 2:2:2 (best) and 2:2:1 (not so good). At 2:1:1 the 75 CF's are hopeless. Great theory, shame about the practicalities.

However, you're pain threshold may be way different to mine and the chance of freebie testers from Sachtler will give you a chance to have a play with any or all the three mentioned sticks.

See if any of them cut the David mustard!


CS

Re: Why do people use tripod legs with spreaders?
 

Chris do you know of any speed locks between the 75 and the $2400 2:2:2?

Re: Why do people use tripod legs with spreaders?
 

Yep, the very ones I highlighted as a PS on my second to last post:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/201202-REG/Sachtler_5586_Speed_Lock_CF_Carbon_Fiber.html

They're only 2:2:1 though, but you might like to try 'em, heck, it's free, apart from the return shipping.


CS

Re: Why do people use tripod legs with spreaders?
 

That's a pretty hefty fee from the UK to USA! I dunno.. they still look very heavy duty.. I'd be inclined to try the 75's first I think, the size of them seems much more what I'm used to.. Are they really that terrible? Bare in mine my favourite tripod to date is still this cheapo one!

Velbon DV-7000N Video Tripod (DV-7000N) - Wex Photographic

Re: Why do people use tripod legs with spreaders?
 

Hmm, I've been using the Sachtler FSB6 with CF Speedlock since 2008 with a Sony EX1 mostly. I have no issues with the spreader. It's easy enough for me to un-tighten the spreader to shift the legs. I'd much rather that then having to bend all the way down to the ground. I've used it both for indoor situations in tight places where I needed to narrow the angle as well as out door press conferences. Perhaps I'm just used to it.

I do have a much lighter Benro carbon fiber tripod when I use a light camera (BMPCC and Sony X70) and I need to move quickly.

Re: Why do people use tripod legs with spreaders?
 

OK, now I'm officially confused.

Sachtler & Vinten products destined for European countries are distributed from the UK; London, I believe.

Products destined for America (North & South) destinations are distributed from the USA, where, I don't know, possibly New York.

Your DVinfo tag says you're based in the UK, so there should be no shipping to/ from the USA.

Ah, he's where that pain threshold comes in.

You have to remember my first set of pro HD sticks was a set of Vinten FiberTec's, which are still my "rock solid support of a Mack truck required" system. Also in my arsenal are two other Vinten sticks, nearly but not quite as grunty as my FiberTecs.

Add a Manfrotto 528XB which is stronger than any of the other 3 but weighs more than any two of the others combined.

Compared to that lot the 75 CF's are the 7 stone weakling. Squirreled away somewhere I have an antique aluminium spreader-less center column Velbon set of stills sticks and even they are gruntier than the 75's.

However, everything I shot prior to the FiberTecs was standard def on a set of Manfrotto 520 or 525's. Standard def pretty well hid the worst of the 520's behaviour BUT when I made the switch to HD the wheels fell off on the very first shoot and stayed there till I seriously upgraded my camera support system.

Cue Vinten.

Using the 75's for HD video just takes me back to that first HD shoot on the 520's when the first 30 seconds of footage shows the camera waving around like corn in a stiff breeze. No thanks.

Are you as touchy on the subject as I am? Don't know.

Game plan: Get a set of the 75's and see if they do the job required. If they do, job done. If they don't, step up to the next set and try again. Repeat if necessary until you run out of wallet.

It might be worth asking whomever for an estimate of shipping costs to get whatever back to them if they don't suit.

Can't see you've much to lose and it sure as heck beats the "buying - oh shit" scenario.

However (there's always one) what are you gonna do about a decent head? No point spending big on a set of sticks and parking a 20 buck hunk of junk on the top.

Better game plan: Contact Sachtler, tell them what camera system you shoot with and ask them to suggest an appropriate head to accompany the first set of sticks.

Head's great but sticks don't cut it? Send back the sticks and try the next step up, keeping the head. New set of sticks do the business but now the head doesn't cut it? Send back the head and try the next step up.

Continue till wallet has been reduced to whimpering wreck hiding under the bed.

You should at least have a decent support system by then.

Just one more thing. The 75 CF's have a 75 mm bowl, the other two CF sticks are 100mm so you'll need a 100mm to 75mm reducer if you make the step up with a 75mm ball head. A Manfrotto unit will be significantly cheaper than the Sachtler alternative and perform exactly the same function.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/374313-REG/Manfrotto_319_319_75mm_to_100mm.html

CS

Re: Why do people use tripod legs with spreaders?
 

Preemptive Strike

To terminate your probably inevitable next question, which you'll get around to sooner or later; yes, you can use your existing flat based head on a half bowl tripod if you absolutely must.

You simply source one of these: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/553993-REG/Manfrotto_520BALL_520BALL_75mm_Half_Ball.html

Screw the 3/8" bolt on adapter into the (hopefully) 3/8" hole in the base of the head, screw in the 3 lock screws located underneath the adapter half ball to lock the head in place, remove adapter clamp knob, insert 3/8" adapter clamp bolt into hole in center of tripod bowl, replace clamp knob.

Job done.

If the hole in the head base is only 1/4" you're kind of, well, screwed. Before you buy the adapter, remove the flat based head from your existing tripod and check on the fitting size - the easiest way is to see if the tripod head bolt will fit perfectly into the tripod attach hole in the base of your camera. If it does it's a 1/4" X 24, game over. If the bolt is way to large it's a 3/8" X 16 and you're good to go.

Of course, if the head simply will not be removed from the tripod without physical destruction, which is the case with some of the real cheapo's, it's back to the drawing board.


CS

Re: Why do people use tripod legs with spreaders?
 

At least with good sticks and a cheap head, one can lock it down and push buttons and adjust focus without the image jolting about. It's only when you pan and tilt that a head really comes into play (unless it's so bad that it wobbles when locked.)

Back to spreaders, I used to use a floor spreader for our corporate speaking events. Unfortunately, one of the meetings was on carpet and my lens (EF 200/2.8 II) didn't have stabilization. I felt like I needed to hold my breath for 90 minutes.

Since then, we got a 70-200 with IS and a mid-level spreader. We haven't shot these events on carpet since, but I'm now prepared!

And yes, the mid-level spreader needs to be adjusted when changing height, but I don't find that to be a problem. I found the floor spreader to be a much bigger hassle as it had three separate adjustments, didn't attach all that well, could flop over center when nearly folded up, had to be compressed to stow the tripod, and required flat surfaces. It's one advantage was that I could lift from the center ring and hold the head with the other hand to move the tripod quickly from here to there.

For the mid-level spreader, I bit the bullet and got a Vinten Spread-Loc. One twist unlocks it. Adjust the legs, re-lock, and done. Night and day compared to the cheap 3rd party floor spreader I had been using.

Re: Why do people use tripod legs with spreaders?
 

I don't think the spreader made any difference there, surely? All it does is stop the legs splaying apart - any vibration would be transmitted straight up the legs, and a mid level would be just as bad?

But normally you shouldn't need to make any adjustment - simply have all three sections compressed. Then open the legs and the base is fixed by the (locked) spreader. Adjusting height is then simple - the bottoms of the legs don't move. The only time you should need to unlock the spreader adjustments is for absolute max stability, and normally with max leg extension. Then adjust all three to max, and you get a bigger (but also fixed) base triangle.

Re: Why do people use tripod legs with spreaders?
 

One of the best set of legs that I ever used were the Manfrotto 542ART legs, maybe seven years back. A unique design and very fast to deploy and adjust. Problem was they were too expensive and were discontinued. There is a Korean outfit that is still selling new 542ART legs on eBay but in excess of US$2K. If I ever see a cheap set I will grab them.


Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

Re: Why do people use tripod legs with spreaders?
 

This sounds excellent to me. Although I have to admit I didn't consider having to readjust the spreader when you change height because I'm so used to the spreader on the Velbon that seems to be more for ease of extending 3 legs with 2 hands rather than stability as it moves up and down the center column itself when you extend the legs. This is the sole feature of the velbon that I really like.

Re: Why do people use tripod legs with spreaders?
 

Sorry, I was referring to specifically the B&H link you posted. I see what you mean now.

Re: Why do people use tripod legs with spreaders?
 

Don't worry, I binned the velbon head on all 4 of my DV7000's the day I got them. I use Manfrotto 502HD's on my slider (which I really only use if I want to angle the camera when sliding - possibly overkill in a weight/usage scenario) and I use (I think...) Manfrotto 502AH (I have one flat version on the velbon and one bowl version on the Manfrotto 536CF sticks but this never gets used because of my issues with the sticks and the bowl system)

The problem I have with bowl and why I wouldnt consider using an adapter as I assume the issue would remain is that if I want to level out my slider after moving to uneven ground for a quick shot (saves me adjusting the feet - i only do that for more severe terrain) on a flat head even when locked down, with enough force on one end the slider will move and I can level it with a bit of a "whack" (I can see people rolling their eyes... sorry.. it's just the way I've gotten used to!) however the same whack with a bowl head results in it potentially moving in the forwards/backwards pane also and you end up with the head on a totally bizarre diagonal finishing position and I then sit there wrestling with the head to get it level before I give up, losten it and level before re-tightening. Totally understand this is the way I SHOULD do it, however, this takes 3 times as long as a quick wack on one end of the slider.

Without the slider I have no real issues with the bowl head (but also no major preference for one over flat head either) but I can't see myself ditching the slider any time soon.

I'm impossible to please aren't I? I think in short I'm happy with my head setup, I just need to find a flat based sturdy lightweight tripod with a similar center spreader to the velbon DV7000 where it can be used more for quick leg extension and retraction (I dont mean quick extensing and collapse of the legs like the speedlock although this would be a nice bonus).

I wouldn't be surprised if you guys bail out of this thinking "this guy will never be happy" but whether you do or do not I am overwhelmed by the amount of info and the time you've taken with your replies, thankyou so much

Re: Why do people use tripod legs with spreaders?
 

The instability on carpet was due to the inherent flat bottom on that particular floor spreader. With a mid-level spreader, I would have been able to use either pads or spikes as needed. I really needed spikes on that bouncy carpet.

So that's something to consider with a floor level spreader. Does it preclude the use of spikes?

Re: Why do people use tripod legs with spreaders?
 

got my manfrotto 535 and velbon dv7000 next to eachother yesterday and i'm still none the wiser! Might start just wasting some money on all of the mid level spreader legs I can find until I get one I like. I've been doing that for 10 years anyway!