Why do people use tripod legs with spreaders?
 

Hi all:

As the former owner of Sachtler Video 18, current owner of a Bogen 503 with the mDVe aluminum legs and of a Miller Solo DV with a Sachtler DV-6SB, I can't figure out why anyone would want tripod legs that use spreaders?

I guess if all you ever do are studio shoots on flat ground, fine, but every time I am in a hurry or I am shooting on uneven ground, around stairs, etc. I thank my good fortune that I bought legs without spreaders. The newest addition to my arsenal are the Miller Solo DV carbon fibre legs, which I paired with a Sachtler DV-6SB. It is a dream setup, except for being too heavy, with the Panasonic HVX-200.

If you are on the broke end of things, the Bogen 503, teamed with the aluminum mDVe legs are a good compromised and still give you all of the advantages of non-spreader legs. I often shoot with two cameras (HVXs) right next to each other, often inserted in to the same teleprompter screen and it is so much easier with the non spreader legs.

I can also go down to hi-hat levels with the Miller legs, about 6" off of the ground. Saves hauling an extra piece of gear (hi-hat or Cinesaddle).

Just wanted to throw this out there, why do you use or do no use a tripod with a spreader? I think most people just buy them because they look traditional and they don't think about it until the really begin to use it. We have the POS Bogen legs at work that use Bogen ultra cheap mid-level spreaders. They are so bad, it's not even funny. You can barely collapse the sticks enough to fit in the bag with the stupid spreader and then you take it out, leveling and getting the legs extended is a nightmare because the spreader is in the way.

The Miller and Gitzo non-spreader legs are so superior to everything else on the market. The Gitzo 1325 legs and the Miller Solo DV legs are 75mm bowl and the Miller Solo VJ legs are 100mm bowl so you are pretty much covered as far as being able to interface with different heads.

Discuss?

Dan

YOu mean tripods with a "Built IN" spreader, right?

Try using a 12 foot crane that weighs 32kg on a standard tripod without spreaders and you'll see why .

BTW i can't say i've ever had any bother leaveling a tripod with spreaders on uneven ground.You could level a tripod with spreaders on a 45 degree angle no bother.

Andy

I have never *not* used a spreader. Too many slick auditorium floors in my past. While I can understand how a mid-level spreader can get in somebody's way if they're in a hurry, I honestly can't see how a ground spreader can get in the way. The nice thing is having the choice, whether it's a mid-level spreader, a ground spreader or none at all.

I'm with Chris on this one. Choice is good. I always carry my spreader with me. Don't always use it, but it's always handy. I can see how a built in mid level might stymie you though. I HAVE spread my legs way far apart, to get a foot or two off the ground, and you probably couldn't do that with some of the mid level spreader models I've seen.

Tripods designed for smaller video cameras generally are designed not to need spreaders, but when you're talking about a heavy 35mm camera and heavy tripod head, you need a stronger pair of tripod legs and more support to keep them from spreading apart from the weight & downward pressure, unless you can spike them into the ground or a carpet.

Replies
 

Hi all and thanks for responding.

Andy:

For jibs, I recommend not using your video legs with a jib. I just ordered the LWT (lightweight tripod) with the Porta-Jib, it was under $400.00 or I would buy some cheap Mnafrotto legs. http://www.portajib.com/columns_tripods.htm#lwt

These legs are designed for the Losmandy spider dolly and are really beefy and cheap and very steady. Personally, I am a bit paranoid to raise any legs with a jib, extension, counterweights, camera, etc. And yes, they do have a spreader, I agree, I would not use my Miller legs with a jib.


Chris:

I agree, choice is good. I just find mid level spreaders a hassle and I find ground spreaders a nightmare. Once again, try putting two HVXs right next to each other for a two camera shoot where you want the cams about 2" apart for a simultaneous medium and CU with any tripods with spreaders. Impossible.

The Miller has angle leg locks with rubber feet (with spikes when in soft stuff) that would preclude any slippage on a slick floor.

Thanks for input guys. I would say with spreaderless tripods, try one, you will never go back, except for a jib or really heavy camera.

Dan

I have two Bogans with mid-level spreaders. I had one Bogan without a spreader, and after the first couple of weeks, I sold it! Just not as stable, and felt chinchy. (SP?) Fine for my 35mm Nikon!

If you want to put two cameras that close together, get a head kit that has multiple mounts on it. One tripod and two or more cameras. Are you doing 3D?

I have one spreaderless tripod left, a carbon fiber one that I intend to use for a crane mount, as it has a greater load capacity (77 Lbs), but I intend to put it on a wheeled spreader I have.

Good Luck

Mike

These new tripods such as the Miller Solo are not the same as the older kit minus a spreader. These lock the legs in place using a catch in the hinge. The legs can be locked at various angles, something you cannot do with a tripods designed to use spreaders.

Because of this new design all manner of situations can be coped with. Add to that how much easier they are to rig and they're a real step forward for the solo shooter. Plus the carbon fibre material doesn't get burning hot or freezing cold.
The way the telescoping legs lock seems much more rigid than the traditional approach. I can with a little practice rig a Miller Solo with one hand. In a crowd being able to keep the camer in one hand while I rig the tripod is a big step up in security.

My Bogan had the locks with multiple settings too, but I just didn't care for it. That's why we have choices, so everyone can have what they like. :)

Mike

I've used tripods with mid-level spreaders, and ground spreaders. Personally, I love a good set of spreaders. Gives me a place to stand on to hold the tripod onto an angled ground, has locks on it so that I can setup on pretty much anything uneven (for one of my previous jobs, I was setting up on bleachers at sporting events, with ground spreaders), and because of the adjustability of spreaders, not only can I set the tripod at just a few adjustable angles, but I can actually angle one or two legs a touch farther out, a touch farther in, or whatever I need for my rig to get stable. And about working outdoors? Pop some gaffer's tape on the bottom of the feet! Simple enough, keeps your nice spreaders from getting too dirty, and gives you a little bit of grip, should you need it. I've never had the opportunity to work with many tripods without spreaders, but personally I just don't feel the need to. My big ol' Vinten does me fine. (King of overkill here putting a 7 pound camera on a borrowed Vinten Vision 10)

"The Miller and Gitzo non-spreader legs are so superior to everything else on the market."

I don't necessarily agree with you there! I have a set of O'Connor 35B legs that set up in a matter of single digit seconds. I find that it can be very tedious loosening, extending, then re-tightening every single leg extension with the Miller and Gitzo legs. The Miller and the Gitzo do have some advantages, but for 99% of my work, the O'Connor 35B kicks ass.

For jib work I have a Quickset Gibraltar tripod. It has a 200 lb capacity so I don't worry too much about overloading it!

I have an O'Connor 50 and a Gitzo 1338. I can move with the O'Connor, raise it up or down to the exact level I want in a fraction of the time it takes for doing the same thing with the Gitzo. If you're using a lightweight camera and don't need to move up or down, the Gitzo is a great light tripod, and the head seems just as smooth as the O'Connor.

I just bought a Canon XH A1 for some personal documentary work, and it's a bit light for the Gitzo (which has the 22 pound spring), so I got the mid-spreader Libec-22; just ordered it from Zotz Digital. With a mid level spreader you can move quicker than the old type of ground spreader. My ancient O'Connor 50 has low spreaders, but they attach to the legs a couple of inches off the ground, and when you pick up the tripod you kick them up from the middle and they fold up just like mid level ones. This is probably the ultimate in a well designed spreader.

One thing you can do with the Gitzo is, if you need to go up a bit, you can just pull the legs in, which makes it taller. But when you do that you don't want to walk away from the camera because somebody might walk by and kick a leg (happens all the time), and you'd lose it all.

I'm going to drag this one out of mothballs to ask:

Does the Miller solo have the option to add a spreader? I don't see a compatible spreader on the Miller website.

Here's my issue: I've been using a set of Gitzo CF legs with my HV-20. No "bowl" just a plate with a stud; they're for stills heads +the lowest end Bogen pan/tilt. It's time for a better head since I'll be adding to my kit. That means a tripod upgrade.

The Miller Solos get good reviews except: folks complain about not having spreaders and that the legs might be a little too light when you start adding adapters, matteboxes etc. In my experience with the Gitzo legs, it's easy for people to bump into a leg and get it to move.

I'm thinking that having the option to add spreaders would be nice, but don't see that option with the Millers.

Also: does having spreaders make it easier to get all the legs at the same length quickly? My only other issue with the Gitzo is that it can be a little fiddly to get all three legs to the correct length quickly. Operative word is "quickly" it's not a major hassle just wondering if spreaders makes it easier.

Comments, please
Bob

Hi Bob.................
 

No, there is no spreader option for the Miller Solo's.

People complain about the Solo's because, good tho' they are, they're simply incapable of being as rigid as the conventional twin tube design (of comparble quality) and are thus more susceptable to movement.

Whether a spreader would help is a moot point.

As for getting the legs the same length quickly, with the upgrade to a half ball head the issue is a bit of a dead duck, no matter what length the individual legs (within reason, of course) the half ball will allow the head to be leveled.

If anything, a mid level spreader slows things down as it's yet one more thing that needs to be fiddled with before you can start shooting, not much maybe, but more nevertheless.

Mid level spreaders do, however, significantly aid rigidity and are thus a GOOD THING.


CS

Thanks Chris. Can you point me at a twin-tube tripod of comparable quality and price?

I hadn't given the twin tube design much thought but, as I poke around through theads to see pix of what people are using, I see that they are more common than I originally thought.

I was hoping to stay in the same range as the Miller CF legs and head, about $1,500. Sticks don't have to be same maker as head.

It ain't necessarily so........
 

There are some combinations out there with a big (and expensive) "gotcha" attached for the unwary, but more of that later.

Is that $1500 just for the sticks or combined sticks/ head?

Have you decided on a head?

What are you intending to park on it/ them, size and weight wise?

Three years time?

How tall are you?

What style/ type of shooting do you do?

That should do for the moment.


CS

Chris, I've never had an issue with QUALITY (read: EXPENSIVE) mid spreaders like the ones on Sachtler Video 20 tripods. The notched ones that sometimes appear on older, cheaper Millers? I agree.

When I shot news, most of our tripods had mid-spreaders, which easily and quickly allowed setup on level ground OR on steps. The key is to keep the adjustment screws on the mid-spreader tight so they don't "flare" out.

The reason I'm adamant about spreaders, mid or bottom, is I've seen too much "flex" outward of tripods without spreaders if one puts too much downward pressure on the tripod. This adversely affects the "level" of the head.

Thank you. The very first spec I look at on a tripod is max height. THEN I look at capacity. I have seen so many tripods that don't even reach 6 feet, which is ludicrous if you ever expect to do a standing interview with anyone over 5'8" or so. BTW, I'm 6'3".

Yes, I'd like to stay under $1500 for all. I'm not opposed to a hybrid purchase of used legs + new head or everything used. No I haven't decided on a head, though the Sachtler FSB 6 head is nice but that pretty much crushes the budget!

This is my "three years time" acquisition and, as such, I may be asking too much of one set-up. What I roll with now is a miniscule HV20. In the next few weeks, I'll be deciding whether to upgrade to an EX-1 or add a Letus adapter (and all the do-dads that go with it) to the HV-20. Two very different options. In the end I want both the EX-1 and Letus but cannot acquire both simultaneously. So the max load is the EX-1 with rods, adapter and such. I'd rather not purchase separate tripods.

I don't see myself going larger than an EX-1, in terms of camera size.

I'm 6 foot 2 inches. Yes, I know to check max heights! Got screwed on a stills tripod when I was younger by not checking.

Most of my shooting is: pull it out of my car, set it up indoors and shoot. I shoot educational material in a hospital setting. Sometimes on and off the tripod to be mobile, so having a nice plate system is meaningful to me. I really don't care for the plates on the low-end Bogen heads.

Bob

Well, going for best bang per buck..........
 

I suppose checking on the usual suspects (DVinfo Trading Post, e - bay et al) would be a good way to start.

Also B&H second hand, not usually a huge selection but at least it's guaranteed.

I'm not really up there with Sachtler priceing, could you get a decent setup S/H for $1500?


CS

I think this is the least expensive B&H sells and it goes to 5ft 2, though I heard the leg locks are a little wonky.

I think...........
 

you may have left out a link there Bob.

Could it have been to something like this:

Sachtler | 0475 FSB-6 Carbon Fiber Tripod System | 0475 | B&H


CS

DOH! I had the link for the Aluminum version copied but must have inserted somewhere else? Shouldn't participate in web forums while truing to write research proposal!

Yes, that's it. People seem to dislike the leg locks and I get the sense---based on the price of the head alone at $1250-- that the legs are probably not the star of the kit.

This looks tasty..........
 

Cartoni | F102 Focus Aluminum Tripod System | F102 | B&H Photo

That continuously variable counterbalance is worth the money!



CS

Sexy at the price but only 5' tall...

Seems to be................
 

an awefull lot of midget videographers out there judgeing from the line up I'm seeing on B&H.

Herein lies the rub, can he get the height, the quality of construction and the decent head for that budget?

You got any suggestions Shaun?

Haven't found squat second hand anywhere obvious.


CS

Yes, I've poked around in the used threads. Not much.

I'm using Manfrotto 501 heads on 525 MVBII legs (2 sets) until my next purchase, a Sachtler that will likely cost me $5k. Sorry.

I find Vinten's and Miller's too light for my needs. The Manfrotto's are hold-overs from my PD150 days and I'm making them work until budget permits.

Admittedly, my first two Manfrotto 50x tripods have mid-level spreaders. But, my new Miller DS20 is beyond cool. With single tube graphite legs, it's more rigid than either of my Manfrotto's. I can get set up 14 inches from the ground, a whole new perspective from down here. And no spreaders.

I'm not an aweful lot more help.........
 

I bought a set of these with all the bells and whistles, plus a Vision 3 head earlier this year, ran me well over US$4k.

It hurt, but what a support system!

Vinten | 3498-3 ENG/EFP 2-Stage Fibertec Tripod Legs | 34983

Absolutely gobsmacked they're still on the B&H site, they were supposed to be discontinued.

Still only 5' high tho'.

CS

PS: Hmm, what about:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...specifications

OR

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...specifications

Aaah, I'll let you guys check this one out, I don't "do" craigslist:

http://longisland.craigslist.org/pho/897011519.html

That latter one could be a bit much, the counterbalance doesn't kick in till 15.4 pounds, so, less you're putting your HV20 on a "super size me" diet, probably overkill.

I also should have been more specific: I'm not saying my Manfrotto's are all that stable. I was comparing the Vinten's and Miller's to the Sachtler I will be buying next. Good to hear you're having luck with the Miller, Bill. I may need to try that one out before I make my final purchase.

In all honesty, a spreaderless leg system will never be as solid as one with spreaders. That's simple engineering. However, spreaders will keep the support system quite tall. The beauty of a spreaderless system is the ability to get quite close to the ground. I love the perspective I get from 14" AGL.

Re: Why do people use tripod legs with spreaders?
 

sorry to reignite an old old thread but I have been trying for the best part of a decade to find a tripod system I'm happy with and it all comes down to the spreader. Not for stability (although this is a plus) but for ease of extending the legs quickly. I shoot weddings and find it a pain with no spreader to set my 2 legs with my 2 hands and then need to move my hand to the third leg to extend it. When you're moving around constantly this is a real grind so I'm basically after any recent additions to the tripod selection with a spreader that would work as a fast way of extending legs like the cheap velbon dv700 does (probably my favourite tripod, I use it more than my £500 carbon manfrotto legs and my old gitzo and benros)

Any suggestions very much appreciated! One thing I would say if if the spreader lays flat and sort of locks into place it makes it harder to use for the speed purpose so one that sits kind of diagonally down the center columb would be a bonus (yes a center column with a flat head is also preferably to just a high tripod with a bowl for me)

thanks!

Re: Why do people use tripod legs with spreaders?
 

@David.. Interesting.

I have three tripods, the one I like the best is a Libec - it has a mid-level spreader that some say is "flimsy" but I don't agree.

I turn it upside down, grab two legs, pull gently and the setup is done..

For dismantling, I lift one of the tripod legs off the ground, put my hand under the spreader and gently push up.

Is this not the protocol everyone uses? I don't know.

I use my Manfrotto 028B exactly the same way but with the metal spreader it's more effort.

Re: Why do people use tripod legs with spreaders?
 

The spreader position makes a big difference to the setup speed too. My old Libecs (can't remember the models) had the spreader fixed to the top stage, so when you set the tripod up the spreader and legs are always locked at the same width/angle.

My newer Manfrottos (546B) have an adjustable spreader attached to the middle stage which leads to 2 big problems when setting up:

1) The height of the tripod will effect the angle of the legs. As you go higher, you need to adjust the spreader (make the spreader arms longer) to get the tripod legs wider and maintain stability.
2) If you're on uneven ground, your legs will often be extended to different heights and the spreader ends up with it's 3 arms at different lengths, and pointing at different angles.

The adjustable arms on the spreader should theoretically overcome these problems but in reality they introduce another massive problem: Unless all the arms are set to the same length (and I mean EXACTLY the same length, to fractions of a millimeter) the tripod will not properly fold up. You basically need to reset all the arms to their mimimum length in order to get the tripod to pack up again. Very awkward for fast moving shoots where you are constantly in and out of vehicles - like a wedding, for example.

I guess this is why so many of the big ENG tripods only have 2 stages - it makes a mid level spreader more effective, at the expense of minimum height.

Re: Why do people use tripod legs with spreaders?
 

David,

There is a technique for spreading tripod legs without a spreader that you may find useful. Put the front leg on the ground, grasp the other two legs and spread them while pulling away from the grounded leg and voila! Three spread legs, one pull.

Dave

Re: Why do people use tripod legs with spreaders?
 

But that doesn't work well in the opposite way, it happens I have to push the legs closer to eachother when I have to reposition, with a spreader below the tripodhead I just need to grab the spreader joint that connects the 3 legs and lift it up and all 3 legs will reposition in the same angle.

Re: Why do people use tripod legs with spreaders?
 

I'm glad others use a spreader in the same way as me. Yep Dave I do try that technique with my non spreader tripods but it's nowhere near as simple. This is why I love my cheap Velbon DV7000 the spreader is a diagonal one it's just so flimsy due to the center column design. I think I'd be willing to lose the center column if the rigidity was improved but ideally a center columb with solid stability would be great.

Any suggestions of specific models? I'd love to put my 10 year hunt for a tripod to bed at last!!

Re: Why do people use tripod legs with spreaders?
 

Lately I've taken to using these legs

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/556158-REG/Manfrotto_536_536_4_Section_Carbon_Fiber.html

It was the reviews that tempted me to try these them. Loving the freedom without the spreader and having anywhere from 10" to 80" height is amazing, I can walk under them! They are plenty rigid up against the dual tube two stage Miller, Schatler and Vinten legs.

The Manfrotto 536's combined with a Vinten

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/238090-REG/Vinten_3466_3_VISION_100_Fluid_Head.html

are giving me the best I've ever had in ENG type camera support for years.

I've been using Vinten heads for ages now and I have found nothing to beat their Perfect Balance and TF (Thin Film) Drag Control control systems. Perfect Balance any camera setup to sit at any angle with NO tilt lock or NO drag wound in and you can let go and it won't move. No heartbeat thumps at 30x zoom as you don't have to touch the pan bar until you are ready to move. Fantastic for football and stage performances.

The Thin Film Drag allows you to have any amount of drag dialed in but if you have to whip away to an incident as often happens in motor sport the head breaks free from the drag but as you slow down on your new target the pre-dialed in drag returns.

Every now and again I have to use use a Miller or Schatler on other production shoots but can't wait to get back to this Vinten / Manfrotto combo.

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney