Nature Doc :-)

Helen Habib · April 17th, 2008, 01:42 AM

This is a very nice suggestion Allan. I am going to include some music as you suggested and thanks for even detailing how to approach it.

My intention is to sell the program to the TV station(s). As for a particular audience, I'm trying to appeal to a certain disposition rather than an age group - an audience who's interested in something educational. But I get what Mat was saying about the script being a little too simple. I'm working on adding in more.

(Still trying to upload another clip but at 9 kb per second upload speed it's going to take 26 hours....and they call this broadband! ha ha!)

Colin McDonald · April 17th, 2008, 02:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helen Habib

What do you think about 15 minutes of nature sounds, water and bird sounds, without music?

Some would dismiss this out of hand - I say go for it and see if it works. If your images and sounds are interesting enough it could reinforce the atmosphere and view like a more traditional BBC style doc. But I'd really like to see it.

Mat Thompson · April 17th, 2008, 04:43 AM

I have to agree with Allan. When somethings got a very regional flavour like this...local music could really make things fly! Go easy though, I think its brave to go without it but a little will really add some flavour. Best thing is to go and study something you aspire to and see how they've used the music to effect the flow and mood. One that springs to mind is the Andes to Amazon series!

Annie Haycock · April 17th, 2008, 09:59 AM

Even better would have been Flight of the Condor (again a BBC three-parter, but just about the Andes) but unless you happened to see it when it was aired twenty-odd years ago . . . . . . and maybe my memory of it isn't brilliant, but there didn't seem to be a lot of music in it, or else the music just wasn't intrusive enough to be noticeable.

Helen Habib · April 17th, 2008, 11:32 AM

Colin, I'm trying to upload a piece taken on two of the river channels, it's a minute and some seconds long. Will put the link up when it uploads.

Mat and Annie, I will try to get a hold of those documentaries.

Hugh Mobley · April 17th, 2008, 03:35 PM

Tried to look at vimeo clip but it says its not there!, when you upload to vimeo the clip should be approx the size of Vimeo, somewhere 550x400 or in that range, definitely an mpeg 4 at 1 mbps, I use 3mbps, although the clips start getting large. but vimeo is closer to hd than most so the bit rate has to higher. You might have to experiment a little, put a short one up at different bit rates to see what it looks like.

Helen Habib · April 17th, 2008, 04:24 PM

My connection is super slow, when I get can get it uploaded I'll come back and post. Hugh, I was in the process of replacing the clip so it isn't there.

Helen Habib · April 18th, 2008, 08:33 PM

Here's a clip on the river channels with just natural sounds. I hope the sounds come across clearly, but I think I have to raise the volume. I was too conservative with the volume of the bird sounds thinking they would compete with the narrator, but I was looking at "Getaway" on Discovery Travel & Adventure and while the host was talking, there was this screaming cicada (or another insect) and I was surprised at how loud it was yet it didn't collide with listening to the host. I had toned down the cicada that I'd recorded while in the forested area but it's now too soft.

(I already know what the comments about the narrative will be, this clip is for an analysis of the imagery combined with the nature sounds.)

http://www.vimeo.com/914593

(If you can't see the video just yet, Vimeo is still converting, but it's been uploaded.)

Colin McDonald · April 19th, 2008, 01:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helen Habib

Here's a clip on the river channels with just natural sounds...

(I already know what the comments about the narrative will be, this clip is for an analysis of the imagery combined with the nature sounds.)

http://www.vimeo.com/914593

Apart from the shots at the Nariva swamp notice, I'm hearing more engine and water sounds than anything else - not what I would call wildlife :-). Basically that is the equivalent of your room tone, and is in effect, silence.
Out of 1' 17" in the clip there's only the 18" at the Nariva swamp notice which has the kind of interesting and atmospheric sounds needed to carry it. I think you may have to use some more music.

Also, while it might be appropriate in places just to cut the video without transitions, it might help to crossfade the audio a bit to avoid a "bump" effect unless you want to emphasise a sudden change.

Hope that didn't sound negative - it's a great bit of work.

Annie Haycock · April 19th, 2008, 03:05 AM

Helen - have you noticed that if you are driving along, it can be hard to hear someone's voice above the noise of the engine, but a birdsong will come across quite clearly? The birdsong is at a completely different pitch range to the human voice and car engine, so it doesn't compete. But if you have lots of birds singing at the same time, it can be hard to pick out one individual from the crowd.

The same applies to a soundtrack. The natural sounds often do not compete with the narrater's voice, so you don't need to reduce the volume.

The boat engine noise is somewhat annoying because it changes volume between clips. You really need to find a section of video where the boat engine isn't running and you have plenty of natural sounds - preferably 30 seconds or more. Then kill the sound in the individual clips and just run the continuous "wild" sound as one layer of your soundtrack.

A fairly good rule is "listen to the original sound in the clips - then replace it"

Helen Habib · April 19th, 2008, 06:04 AM

Good, thanks for both coments!

Helen Habib · September 3rd, 2008, 10:29 AM

Here's a short demo of the program. Added in narration and music. I've been trying to shop it around to get it on television here, however, sponsors are difficult to come by.

I'm looking forward to learning more, this is just the beginning, as time and experience goes on, it'll get better, but I'm satisfied with the effort. And I still welcome your comments and suggestions.

:-)

http://www.vimeo.com/1366934

Steve Siegel · September 4th, 2008, 06:06 PM

Hi Helen,
Lovely footage, easy to understand narration. Having been to Trindad, I think I might be correct in suggesting that a large number of tourists who come there are birders. I would have put more birds in the mix. Pearl Kite, Parrotlets, Trogons, and some of the many species of Antbirds, Woodpeckers, etc. would make this video much more inticing to that group of tourists. Everyone has seen a Blue and Gold Macaw, if only in a zoo or pet shop, and Black-bellied Whistling Ducks are common in many places. Put in some of those hidden swamp gems, likw Common Potoo and watch the birders salivate.

Bob Safay · September 5th, 2008, 05:45 AM

Helen, it is looking better each time I see it. Great job. Bob Safay

Helen Habib · September 5th, 2008, 07:13 AM

Thanks Steve. Great observation about birding! My equipment and budget only allowed for seeing some of the bird species, but it's a great angle to present for another project - however, I do have the Purple Gallinule if that counts as uncommon. :-)

Thanks Bob!

April 17th, 2008, 09:59 AM	#19
Annie Haycock Major Player Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Pembrokeshire, Wales Posts: 734	Even better would have been Flight of the Condor (again a BBC three-parter, but just about the Andes) but unless you happened to see it when it was aired twenty-odd years ago . . . . . . and maybe my memory of it isn't brilliant, but there didn't seem to be a lot of music in it, or else the music just wasn't intrusive enough to be noticeable. __________________ Canon XH A1; Canon XF100; Nikon D800

April 17th, 2008, 03:35 PM	#21
Hugh Mobley Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Placentia, Calif Posts: 549	Tried to look at vimeo clip but it says its not there!, when you upload to vimeo the clip should be approx the size of Vimeo, somewhere 550x400 or in that range, definitely an mpeg 4 at 1 mbps, I use 3mbps, although the clips start getting large. but vimeo is closer to hd than most so the bit rate has to higher. You might have to experiment a little, put a short one up at different bit rates to see what it looks like. __________________ Hugh Mobley www.petplanetvideos.com http://exposureroom.com/members/hmobley.aspx/

April 19th, 2008, 03:05 AM	#25
Annie Haycock Major Player Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Pembrokeshire, Wales Posts: 734	Helen - have you noticed that if you are driving along, it can be hard to hear someone's voice above the noise of the engine, but a birdsong will come across quite clearly? The birdsong is at a completely different pitch range to the human voice and car engine, so it doesn't compete. But if you have lots of birds singing at the same time, it can be hard to pick out one individual from the crowd. The same applies to a soundtrack. The natural sounds often do not compete with the narrater's voice, so you don't need to reduce the volume. The boat engine noise is somewhat annoying because it changes volume between clips. You really need to find a section of video where the boat engine isn't running and you have plenty of natural sounds - preferably 30 seconds or more. Then kill the sound in the individual clips and just run the continuous "wild" sound as one layer of your soundtrack. A fairly good rule is "listen to the original sound in the clips - then replace it" __________________ Canon XH A1; Canon XF100; Nikon D800

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April 17th, 2008, 01:42 AM	#16
Helen Habib Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Trinidad Posts: 173	This is a very nice suggestion Allan. I am going to include some music as you suggested and thanks for even detailing how to approach it. My intention is to sell the program to the TV station(s). As for a particular audience, I'm trying to appeal to a certain disposition rather than an age group - an audience who's interested in something educational. But I get what Mat was saying about the script being a little too simple. I'm working on adding in more. (Still trying to upload another clip but at 9 kb per second upload speed it's going to take 26 hours....and they call this broadband! ha ha!)

April 17th, 2008, 04:43 AM	#18
Mat Thompson Trustee Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Kent UK Posts: 1,397	I have to agree with Allan. When somethings got a very regional flavour like this...local music could really make things fly! Go easy though, I think its brave to go without it but a little will really add some flavour. Best thing is to go and study something you aspire to and see how they've used the music to effect the flow and mood. One that springs to mind is the Andes to Amazon series!

April 17th, 2008, 11:32 AM	#20
Helen Habib Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Trinidad Posts: 173	Colin, I'm trying to upload a piece taken on two of the river channels, it's a minute and some seconds long. Will put the link up when it uploads. Mat and Annie, I will try to get a hold of those documentaries.

April 17th, 2008, 04:24 PM	#22
Helen Habib Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Trinidad Posts: 173	My connection is super slow, when I get can get it uploaded I'll come back and post. Hugh, I was in the process of replacing the clip so it isn't there.

April 18th, 2008, 08:33 PM	#23
Helen Habib Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Trinidad Posts: 173	Here's a clip on the river channels with just natural sounds. I hope the sounds come across clearly, but I think I have to raise the volume. I was too conservative with the volume of the bird sounds thinking they would compete with the narrator, but I was looking at "Getaway" on Discovery Travel & Adventure and while the host was talking, there was this screaming cicada (or another insect) and I was surprised at how loud it was yet it didn't collide with listening to the host. I had toned down the cicada that I'd recorded while in the forested area but it's now too soft. (I already know what the comments about the narrative will be, this clip is for an analysis of the imagery combined with the nature sounds.) http://www.vimeo.com/914593 (If you can't see the video just yet, Vimeo is still converting, but it's been uploaded.)

April 19th, 2008, 06:04 AM	#26
Helen Habib Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Trinidad Posts: 173	Good, thanks for both coments!

September 3rd, 2008, 10:29 AM	#27
Helen Habib Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Trinidad Posts: 173	Here's a short demo of the program. Added in narration and music. I've been trying to shop it around to get it on television here, however, sponsors are difficult to come by. I'm looking forward to learning more, this is just the beginning, as time and experience goes on, it'll get better, but I'm satisfied with the effort. And I still welcome your comments and suggestions. :-) http://www.vimeo.com/1366934

September 4th, 2008, 06:06 PM	#28
Steve Siegel Major Player Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA Posts: 839	Hi Helen, Lovely footage, easy to understand narration. Having been to Trindad, I think I might be correct in suggesting that a large number of tourists who come there are birders. I would have put more birds in the mix. Pearl Kite, Parrotlets, Trogons, and some of the many species of Antbirds, Woodpeckers, etc. would make this video much more inticing to that group of tourists. Everyone has seen a Blue and Gold Macaw, if only in a zoo or pet shop, and Black-bellied Whistling Ducks are common in many places. Put in some of those hidden swamp gems, likw Common Potoo and watch the birders salivate.

September 5th, 2008, 05:45 AM	#29
Bob Safay Trustee Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 1,557	Helen, it is looking better each time I see it. Great job. Bob Safay

September 5th, 2008, 07:13 AM	#30
Helen Habib Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Trinidad Posts: 173	Thanks Steve. Great observation about birding! My equipment and budget only allowed for seeing some of the bird species, but it's a great angle to present for another project - however, I do have the Purple Gallinule if that counts as uncommon. :-) Thanks Bob!