Canon 7D low light wildlife clip - first impression - Page 2 at DVinfo.net
DV Info Net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Special Interest Areas > Under Water, Over Land

Under Water, Over Land
Tools & Techniques for Nature, Outdoors, Wildlife & Underwater Videography.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old October 19th, 2009, 08:05 AM   #16
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Wales
Posts: 104
Rolling shutter IS a problem. I know two professionals who have found this when using the EX3. An agency I submit to will not accept Canon 5D MKII because of this.

Andy
Andrew Davies is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 19th, 2009, 08:20 AM   #17
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Washington DC
Posts: 59
In what instances would rolling shutter be a problem for wildlife filming? From what I have seen, rolling shutter problems occur mostly during fast pans and when capturing camera flashes. Realistically, would pans during wildlife capture, for instance following birds in flight, foxes running, etc., cause jellocam? Flashes of light are obviously less of a problem, unless you are filming lightning flashes.

What problems would be most limiting in a wildlife setting?
__________________
Jon Betz
www.jonbetzfilms.com
Jonathan Betz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 19th, 2009, 03:24 PM   #18
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Wales
Posts: 104
Over to you Steve ...
Andrew Davies is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 19th, 2009, 03:31 PM   #19
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Wales
Posts: 2,130
I guess you mean me Andrew!
In my limited use of EX1 and EX3 I noticed "skew" when panning with moving animals, notably flying birds, where the background seems to lag behind the subject!
So from what I've seen the problem with rolling shutter is whenever your subjects move, and wildlife does tend to do that! From what I've heard the DSLRs are in a totally different league re skew to the the EX cameras, many leagues worse.
But, you can only try it yourself and see, as I know many people don't see the problems I do.
Ask yourself though, why aren't the BBC NHU using EX cameras or 7Ds on their raft of mega series? The cameras are cheaper and smaller, so why not, unless there were issues?
Steve
Steve Phillipps is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 20th, 2009, 10:19 AM   #20
Major Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Chicago
Posts: 706
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Davies-Patrick View Post
..............

To give you an example of a DSLR filming wildlife in extreme-low-light levels where most camcorders would struggle or give very grainy images, in this 'Summer Variations' video the digital FX sensor of the D3s provides great footage considering the conditions.
Obviously this is filmed at the extremes (pushed to 12,800 ISO instead of normal 200 ISO when used in average light), so with more light the D3 provides extremely clean footage and stills. The D7 and D5 Mark II also provide really nice clean footage at low to meadium ISO and any 'jello' affect is easily masked in most outdoors nature subjects.

YouTube - Vincent Munier - Summer Variations - Nikon D3s

.....................
Talented filmmaker
Nice video , but a notch below Canon in IQ. It's also 720p.
The new Canon 1D4 is the direct competitor to the Nikon D3s, and appears to beat it easily as a video camera. It appears to shoot good video at light levels that are at the extreme of human vision. Interesting times for nature shooters.
Canon's got the good mojo going. But we know how that changes.
Don Miller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 20th, 2009, 10:32 AM   #21
Major Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Chicago
Posts: 706
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Phillipps View Post
I guess you mean me Andrew!
In my limited use of EX1 and EX3 I noticed "skew" when panning with moving animals, notably flying birds, where the background seems to lag behind the subject!
So from what I've seen the problem with rolling shutter is whenever your subjects move, and wildlife does tend to do that! From what I've heard the DSLRs are in a totally different league re skew to the the EX cameras, many leagues worse.
But, you can only try it yourself and see, as I know many people don't see the problems I do.
Ask yourself though, why aren't the BBC NHU using EX cameras or 7Ds on their raft of mega series? The cam.eras are cheaper and smaller, so why not, unless there were issues?
Steve
The skew is worse, but not greatly worse IMO. The Sonys do many nice things the 7D doesn't. But the 7D is a $1700 camera. And a legally blind person will pick the 7D image as superior to the EX1/3.

We are apparently in a transition to a larger single CMOS sensors. But a lot of characteristics of these cameras need to get better.
Don Miller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 20th, 2009, 11:07 AM   #22
Trustee
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Worldwide
Posts: 1,589
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Miller View Post
Talented filmmaker
Nice video , but a notch below Canon in IQ. It's also 720p.
The new Canon 1D4 is the direct competitor to the Nikon D3s, and appears to beat it easily as a video camera. It appears to shoot good video at light levels that are at the extreme of human vision. Interesting times for nature shooters.
Canon's got the good mojo going. But we know how that changes.
Yes, I'm going to look very closely at the D3s & 1D IV this coming winter, and decide whether to keep one of them for my work or wait for the D4. It is indeed an interesting time for both stills & video at the moment.
__________________
www.WILDCARP.com
www.NIKON.me.uk
Tony Davies-Patrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 20th, 2009, 01:09 PM   #23
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Wales
Posts: 2,130
Interesting yes, but to my knowledge there's very little interest in the broadcast industry in these new DSLRs. I've certainly not heard anyone in the Beeb re-thinking their ideas for upcoming series based on these new cams.
Steve
Steve Phillipps is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 20th, 2009, 01:22 PM   #24
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 2,488
Nice footage but the image looks a tiny bit soft to me, which I'm thinking could be due to the teleconverter. Suggest trying similar shots with and without the converter and cropping in post as needed to see whether you can improve on the quality any. (Converter may be needed to get the shot, but test alternatives.)
Kevin Shaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 20th, 2009, 05:57 PM   #25
Major Player
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Sydney-Australia
Posts: 443
I am sure you are right Steve as based on my short experience with the 7D it won't work well for wildlife. At least not anywhere as good as the EX3.
However, for very low light situations - I don't think there is any alternative right now.
Please correct me if I am wrong.

On a different note - I am very excited about the new Sony PMW 350 with the 2/3 sensors!!
I bet it will be awesome to have it as a main camera and keep the EX3 as a backup. (Now I just have to figure out how to make the 20 grand it costs....(-: )

Cheers,

Ofer
Ofer Levy Photography
Ofer Levy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 20th, 2009, 07:42 PM   #26
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Washington DC
Posts: 59
It seems pretty clear at this point: DSLRs still have too many limitations to compete effectively with camcorders. I'm sure the time will come, but we're not there yet.
__________________
Jon Betz
www.jonbetzfilms.com
Jonathan Betz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 21st, 2009, 02:00 AM   #27
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Wales
Posts: 2,130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ofer Levy View Post

On a different note - I am very excited about the new Sony PMW 350 with the 2/3 sensors!!
I bet it will be awesome to have it as a main camera and keep the EX3 as a backup. (Now I just have to figure out how to make the 20 grand it costs....(-: )

Cheers,

Ofer
Ofer Levy Photography
I'm really not so sure about that. I would have thought that unless the picture quality is sensationally different you'll lose a couple of benefits for wildlife shooting that the EX3 has over other cameras, especially full-size ones like the Varicam, small size and weight (including accessories like batteries and tripods needed), and extra magnification due to smaller sensor. If the only thing you'll gain is extra low light sensitivity then I'd sacrifice that for the other benefits.
It could be though that the apparent lack of noise in the picture will mean that the image [I]is[I] a lot better and so make it worthwhile.
Interesting that it has a viewfinder socket for pro finders too, as even though the EX3 viewfinder is good, it's still not quite upto a proper large VF, so at least you've got the option.
Steve
Steve Phillipps is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 21st, 2009, 05:53 AM   #28
Major Player
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Sydney-Australia
Posts: 443
Hi Steve, I am very pleased to hear this from you. I LOVE the EX3 and since I always use it coupled with the Flash XDR the image quality is simply mind blowing – much better than what the camera does without the Flash XDR. There is absolutely no noise especially since I only shoot with gain set to -3.

I guess the EX3+Flash XDR for daily work and the 7D for night/low light work is the way to go for me.
Look how easily you just saved me 20 grand....(-:
Thanks Steve,
Cheers,
Ofer
Ofer Levy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 21st, 2009, 02:02 PM   #29
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Wales
Posts: 2,130
I think for non-wildlife shooters though the 350 looks really good. It shows that Sony are listening as it's pretty much what a lot of folks have been asking for.
Steve
Steve Phillipps is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY USA

Scan Computers Int. Ltd.
+44 0871-472-4747
Bolton, Lancashire UK


DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Special Interest Areas > Under Water, Over Land

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:26 AM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2024 The Digital Video Information Network