New challenges for wildlife videographers
 

No, not a conservation issue...this is strictly equipment. I've been shopping around looking for something to replace my trusty Canon XLH-1 and it's noisy soon-to-break-tape-drive. As usual the camcorder manufacturers are being led around by people other than wildlife folks. The trend seems to be toward bigger chips, up to 14 megapixels, 4/3 inches, to give huge detail and a shallow depth of field with a puny 2x crop factor. Who can film small critters with a 2x crop factor?

Tele-converters might help, but they always degrade the image. Blowing up the image from those 14 megapixels in post is a thought, but how to focus on the tiny dot while shooting? I know that Mat Thompson has been grappling with this; probably others too. Any thoughts?

One option would be to buy a nanoflash - which should squeeze a couple of more years out of your XLH1: you get a higher quality codec, no noise, tapeless, and you get to continue using your existing lenses and set-up...

Yes, I have used Nanoflash. It's good, but I already have more than my two hands can do. For me was a bit cumbersome.

I rather like the EX3 with its ½” sensor. For “small critters” I either use the standard lens fitted with the 77 mm Canon Close up lens 500D, which gives excellent results but has a very limited working range. Although it vignettes at short focal lengths the ability to zoom makes finding the subject much easier. I also use Micro Nikkors - particularly the 55 mm and the 105 mm. To get the same angle of view with a 4/3” sensor I would need to multiply these focal lengths by a factor of nearly 3. Another drawback for the 4/3’ system would be a good zoom.

For the subject matter I am interested in the problem is that I have too little depth of field rather than too much. A 4/3” sensor would make matters worse.

I think the ½” sensor is a good compromise.

Steve,

Have you considered sending the camera in for servicing?

Of the 136 XL-H1 series camera users/owners on this forum, does anyone happen to know what it costs to replace the tape mechanism?

I have recently been through this. I had a XLH1 and recorded to a Sony HVR-MRC1K CF Card Recorder .
The problem with the canon is there is no way to overcrank. I looked at the ex3 but eventually went for the the JVC gy-hm700 as you could still use reasonable size lenes. A 300mm on ex would be 1500mm on jvc 2100mm. Also the JVC records in xdcam format and now to mp4 to sd cards meaning I edit with my existing system (Edius) Anybody looking at an early hm700 model you can now get a firmware update to facilitate this. Another consideration was a £1.500 uk price difference.
I was about to splash out on a 80-400mm nikon lens when I tried my wife's 70-300mm f4.5-5.6 lens and was surprised by the results of this cheap lens. The results were certainly on a par if not better than my canon h1 with the sigma 100-300mm or the canon f2.8 70- 200mm zoom lenes.
Only time will tell if I have got it right
Mick
.

Have a look at the Red Scarlet. Soon to be released (NAB?)

Features 2/3" sensor, overcrank 120 fps, small size, RAW footage, high dynamic range (18 steps) and more.

Low price for the brain, but you´ll have to buy some add-ons. Depending on what lenses you want, it could be more expensive than the EX3.

Since no one else has mentioned it, the Panasonic GH2 has an Extended Tele-Crop mode. It give you an extra 2.6x TC factor in 1080p, and 3.9x factor in 720p. That's over and on top of the 2x crop factor of the 4/3rd sensor. That's a full 5.2x in 1080p, 7.8x in 720p, There's been some really nice footage with the GH2 and the new Panasonic 100-300. That gives you an effective 1500mm in 1080p, 2200mm in 720p. Basically you end up with a 2/3 sensor in a smallish form factor, great ISO performance and even AF works (quite well too).

I've been using the GH1 and 7D, and as you've observed, it's not enough focal length, so I'm definitely considering the GH2.

I'd also stay away from the external storage solutions. I'm my own crew and so products easy to carry, manage and power are high on my list. I bought the Sony NX5 because of its 20x zoom, great storage, relatively light weight and it shared batteries with my now defunct VX2100. I took it ot Vietnam in September and was pleased.
Beware all that huge chip/shallow depth of field stuff for video. If you are using something like a Canon 7d its recording video by throwing out most of the pixels. And though the shallow depth of field is great, it gets tired and if something is moving around (I was recording monkeys moving through the forest) keeping them in focus can be pretty challenging.

I've been using the 7D for a while with the Canon 100-400mm lens and a 2x teleconverter.

Not sure how a smaller sensor is a good idea since you would start to see really poor quality from the lens at high crop levels. I'll actually get to see this first hand with a T2i shortly. It has a crazy digital zoom that shoots SD resolution video, but you get something like a 7x crop factor. But then, you're at the literal pixel to pixel level on the sensor instead of line skipping, so I'll really see how much my lenses can get away with.

I'm anxious to see what it would cost to get the interchangeable Scarlet and what kind of inexpensive glass I can effectively use.

I am very keen to see what's around the corner at NAB. I really hope there will be some new cams coming out that will fill the role for wildlife. The high crop factor of the 1/3" sensors have been really great, & although i haven't had the privelage of shooting with an interchangeable lens camera like the XLH1 or JVC100/200 type cams, i am now in the hunt for something like these cams but ideally without the limitations of the HDV codec. Hopefully we will see some new things soon, i would love to see a competitor to the 1/2" chip EX3 from Canon or JVC i think that would be great. Not sure i want to go to a larger sensor than 2/3", the DOF becomes too hard to control & crop factors mean getting closer to the wildlife is more of a necessity. I prefer to stay as far away as i possibly can when i can, simply to let the wildlife do there thing in their own comfort zone. A new interchangeable lens version of the Sony NX5 might be an option??
Oh well, guess i'll just have to wait & see what's around the corner. Just don't want to be waiting too long, i could really use this type of cam now!
Regards,
Bryce

The new T3i that has been announced has a 1:1 1080p sensor crop function. In theory, this will maintain true HD integrity, perhaps even better than the line-skipped 1080p from the whole sensor, and will provide incredible "crop" psuedo-teleconversion.

The Panasonic GH-2 also has this, but the T3i will accept all the Canon EF glass you can throw at it.

This is a huge development for those wanting to film from afar. I'm excited it is included with the T3i, it shows some excellent trending for us long lens enthusiasts.

Ryan,
Would you provide a bit more detail in your explanation? A 1:1 crop factor sounds to me like no crop factor at all. What does "line-skipped 1080p" mean? Do you know what the T3i, as a DSLR, does about the well known drawbacks of DSLRs in video, such as inability to use the viewfinder when filming, out-of sync audio, and "jello-like " motion artifacts. Sorry for the inane questions, but I am unfamiliar with the DSLR/video medium and want to learn.

Hey Ryan,
Well the T3i does look interesting, i've just been reading up about it. Still, it is a DSLR & not really ideal for video in my mind. I would love to see a some new dedicated video cameras come out in the near future that will suit our needs as wildlife videographers.
Maybe i will dabble in one of these DSLR's if nothing is announced at NAB, but i really hope i don't have to.
Regards,
Bryce

Hey guys. DSLRs certainly are not "video cameras" in the traditional sense. Their HD capability, coupled with their large sensor and lens mount essentially have come together in a happy coincidence that makes them little digital cinema cameras. In many ways, they're most similar to a small film camera. But even that comparison draws ire from some quarters.

The T2i & T3i sensor is 18 megapixels, so 5184 x 3456 pixels (on the T2i, I assume the T3i will be the same or similar). To get the 1080p, which is 1920x1080, the camera will record the information from a pixel (or photosite? whatever...you get the idea...), then skip several pixels and record another pixel, and so on, thus creating a 1920x1080 sized image, from an 18 megapixel sensor with a native resolution of 5184 x 3456. So it "skips" lines to create the 1080p image.

The 1:1 crop factor I'm talking about is where the camera does not skip any lines. Instead, it will only record the central 1920x1080 pixels. Effectively "cropping" the sensor down to a point where from 1 pixel to 1 pixel to 1 pixel, it is recording the image. It still creates a 1080p image, but ignores most of the sensor outside of the very center 1920x1080. The normal 1080p mode that line skips utilizes the whole sensor, but skips intermittently, thus preserving the sensor size's optical qualities, like depth of field.

As far as drawbacks with DSLR video, they're mostly in the form factor (you need accessories to simulate a normal video camera, like a mic, external monitor, audio monitoring, etc...) but some of those are being mitigated in cameras like the T3i. The LCD screen has always been visible while recording, but the T3i now has an articulating screen, thus enabling easy use in whatever postion you're in, just like a HPX 170 or EX3. So the viewfinder is unnecessary. I wouldn't even want to have to look through that while filming.

Audio is getting better, but you still can't monitor it without accessories. But the T3i has manual audio control as far as I understand it, so you can at least be sure you're getting even and steady audio.

"Jello like" motion artifacts aren't bad at all compared to other prosumer video offerings. As long as your work does not require whip pans, you'll be fine. I've never had a shot ruined because of "jello" or "rolling shutter" with a DSLR.

The biggest drawback of DSLRs currently is the aliasing and moire caused by line skipping. It creates hard pixel stair stepping along straight lines and angular stuff. Typically not a big deal. The moire comes into play on tight patterns, like fabrics or mesh screens. The only time it has been an issue in nature for me was filming a lake with light wind that created very small and intricate wave patterns. It came out looking weird and unusable. But again, that is fairly rare to run into that. You simply have to know about it getting into DSLRs.

I'm young, way interested in electronics and am not using my equipment for paying jobs typically, so I'm both eager and free to "experiment" with DSLRs. There are times where they fail to produce a good image, but that is rare. They are typically stellar and I've had great success and look forward to them just getting better and better.

Most of my videos were shot with the 7D here: Ryan Farnes on Vimeo (T2i & T3i sensor is essentially the same as the 7D)

Thanks Ryan,

If the usual suspects fail to produce at NAB, this may be the way to go.

Re: New challenges for wildlife videographers
 

The more I learn about the T3i, the more interested I am to learn about the 3-10x zoom option.

Re: New challenges for wildlife videographers
 

I've been waiting for the GH2 (body only - I already have the GH1 + 14-140), and now, the T3i shows up with widespread availability and cheaper.

Re: New challenges for wildlife videographers
 

It might sell out. Who knows. Certainly a testament to the GH2's popularity, the fact that you can't buy one anywhere. They'll come though.

Re: New challenges for wildlife videographers
 

It's a DReb.... a mass market item. It's available in Best Buy and Walmart. It would not surprise me if Canon sells more T3i's in one month than how many GH2's are sold in a year.

The problem with the GH2, is that Panasonic simply isn't making that many, and most would seem to be selling in the 14-140 kits. Doesn't help that it's only available at 1/10 of the retailers that carry the T3i.

Re: New challenges for wildlife videographers
 

I suppose that is a testament to the fact that video in DSLRs or EVILs are viewed by the market essentially as an extra feature, not the main purpose of the cameras. (duh, I know....)

When the GH2 can shoot stills like a Canon Rebel and uses abundant glass options, perhaps then it would be more available.

Re: New challenges for wildlife videographers
 

I agree with most of the thoghts on the T3i as i too am tempted to get it, since i only do wildlife the past year collecting equipment has been a big challange and now the T3i comes up.


On the various focal lengths i use the Canon 5D M II with the 100-400, 105 sigma macro, and a 17-40 canon even have a canon 2x TC

to get more reach i went and added the Manual focus Nikkor 800 f/5.6 could get it in Japan and got a Nikon D7000 for it

Then i felt the base need to be able to shoot the travelling shots like driving through the roads and some under water POVs also some of my shooting is going to be in this Monsoons when i go with my car across various mountain roads and hence needed a POV which can shoot in Rains and under water , i went ahead and got a GoPro HD Hero kit and am pleased with its use which i planned.

however doing all this while shooting pans and zoom in zoom out were issues so were following the flight , there i got a PAnasonic HMC 82 to tied that gap. It just seems a unending list but i tell you i am very happy with the results that i am getting with this equipment

The T3i is typically what i am looking for if its what it really says the 3x and 10x since i use the 800 on my 5D with the mount i want to use the 800 over the T3i and i would get the closeups i need and also for places that i cant reach.

I guess with the whole DSLR world coming up and the sheer quality that it produces i would always make it with a DSLR however would use a POV camera for specific work and the proper video camera for specific uses including the pans that get me the jello effect in the DSLRs.

Anyone has any comments on the T3i (3x and 10x ) zoom

Re: New challenges for wildlife videographers
 

Interesting discussion about T3i zoom feature here:
http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/canon-eo...ing-moire.html

Re: New challenges for wildlife videographers
 

What an intersting thread!!!

For some shots or certain films a DSLR can do the job.

For action type outdoor filming I just do not see it for a number of reasons.

While waiting for the scarlet and it has been a couple years now (and one has to wonder about that) there is no guarentee that it will fill the bill for this kind of shooting, much of which is off the should.

Rather than thinking about a new camera it seems that a ki pro mini or a nano flash will keep numerous fine cameras in the field producing high end quality video.

Shooting off a 3ccd camera via sdi or hdmi at high bit rates will produce great images, even if it is a xlh1 or perhaps a sony Fx 1000 prosumer camera!!

When I get things right the footage I get from these cameras is as good as most stuff you see on TV.

For most of my shooting I actually want deeper depths of field.


We all obsess about getting better images, Think I can improve myself more than a new camera can improve me!

Rreckon??!!

Re: New challenges for wildlife videographers
 

"We all obsess about getting better images, Think I can improve myself more than a new camera can improve me!"

Dale, you nailed it with this one. Right on. Bob

Re: New challenges for wildlife videographers
 

With the continued shortage of the GH2, I gave up and picked up a T3i. It's paired up with the 50-500 but I also have the option of using the 120-300/2.8 depending on the light conditions.

So far, I'm quite impressed with the 3x digital zoom/crop. Hopefully the weather and the birds will co-operate for a good test soon.

Coming from a photography background rather than a video background, this is a big leap forward.

Re: New challenges for wildlife videographers
 

Kin-
I would be very interested in hearing how the 10x end of the 3-10x zoom looks. There has been a lot of reports/speculation on the GH2 x10 modes that it is really a 1:1 pixel sampling in video mode. It would be valuable to know if the T3i does the same or introduces zoom artifacts at the 10X end of the digital zoom.

Thanks
Rick

Re: New challenges for wildlife videographers
 

3x is definitely a crop mode, but I don't know about 10x. It's not just 1/10th the resolution, but it's a true 10x magnification and I know the T3i doesn't have that much resolution available. On the T2i, the 10x crop mode was only 640x480, but that probably wasn't a full 10x. The 18mp sensor is 5184 x 3456, so 1/10 would be 518 x 346.

3x looks pretty good, and 1920 out of 5184 is about 2.7x - close enough. Everything else is just up-rezing.

From stuff I've shot so far, 10x is a "better than nothing" fallback.

Re: New challenges for wildlife videographers
 

True. I just got into the telephoto realm about a year ago...and with the tech moving the way it is, substantially different options are introduced every few months. But there is something to be said about the technique of a shooter has little to do with the camera and everything to do with the shooter himself.

Re: New challenges for wildlife videographers
 

Shooting Wood Ducks today, I'm really appreciating that more. It's a lot easier to keep things in focus when DOF is deeper. I'm thinking I may use the tele-crop mode more on my T3i even when my lens is long enough... having a 50-500 zoom helps a lot too.

Re: New challenges for wildlife videographers
 

Well with NAB done for another year, & with no new interchangeable lens cameras from any of the manufacturers, it looks like i am stuck with the same choices. Go with a DSLR & work with less than ideal ergonomics & less than ideal video compression. Or do i buy either a Sony HVR-Z7 or a Canon XLH1s or even an EX3, & work with an external recorder?? I can keep filming in the meantime with my XH A1, but a camera with a lens i can change would be ideal for greater focal lengths & something i can bypass the HDV codec with is what i'm after.
What opinions does everyone have on which way to go?
Thanks in advance,
Bryce

Re: New challenges for wildlife videographers
 

I'm currently playing with a Canon 60D. I just shot the Sitka Alaska Sac Roe Herring Fishery with it in a pouring rain storm. The quality of the video is stunning. I'm currently shooting Bald Eagles and waterfowl with it using the 100-400 lens. 1920 x 1080 at 30p. The camera will shoot 1280 x 1080 60p, but I haven't tried it yet.

For wildlife and birds, I wish I had a camera like the 60D years ago. Having the DOF for wildlife and birds is no big thing for me. But, again, the video quality! The video looks much better than from a Canon A1 or any other camcorder I have seen.

Due to health problems which effect my vision, I am forced to use the AF, which seems to work great for me. I did have problems with it once trying to shoot a gray sea otter on gray seas on a gray day.

This week I'll try a close up Macro Lens.

If you get a chance, borrow a 60D for awhile like I did, and give it a try.

The only drawback are the Raw .mov files which require a hefty cpu. I have been using the Canon Bundled Software which comes with the 60D to load the clips onto a computer, then as a first edit, I trim each clip using the same software. Adding the already trimmed clips to the Vegas 8c timeline to create a intermediate file for further editing.

Re: New challenges for wildlife videographers
 

Hi David,
Thanks for your input. How are you finding the ergonomics of the 60D compared to using the XH A1? Also, have you been doing any long range stuff with it? I just wonder if there is enough reach with these larger sensor DSLR's for doing long tele work. I also have a bit of a worry with the compression of the video. While i also think the footage looks great, i would imagine trying to push it in post would create problems not unlike using HDV footage.
I was really hoping for a smaller sensor camera in the 1/3" or 1/2" range recording to solid state media from one of the big boys to be announced, but allas, it didn't happen.

Re: New challenges for wildlife videographers
 

My physical limitations force me to always use a tripod. So I have no idea how the camera would do hand shooting on the run.

I use a canon 100mm-400mm lens for birds. I'm experimenting with 1.4 Extender.

I can edit the Raw .mov files in Sony Vegas 8.c, but it's slow, and a little jerky in the preview window.

I'm importing from a Scan Disk 16 gig flash card using the Canon ZoomBrowser EX which shows the clips as thumbnails, which is nice. I also use the "Trimmer" function in the Zoom Browsers which works very well. I review and trim the clips in the ZoomBrowser, discarding what I don't want to keep.

I can do basic editing with the .mov files in Vegas 8.c. I have rendered from Vegas 8.c to: CineForm v6.0, MainConcept mp4 1280 x 720 30p, Sony AVC Blur Ray 1920 x 1080 60i, and HDV 30p, and it all looks great.

When I get a chance, I'll make a demo mp4 1280 x1080 30p and put it up on YouTube.

Re: New challenges for wildlife videographers
 

Here are some clips from the Canon 60D.



Original 1920 x 1080 30p files from the camera. Dropped unto Vegas 8.c timeline, and rendered to mp4 1280 x1080 30p.
No additional editing.
Original sound.

The 5:27 minute clip took 22 minutes to render to the mp4.

Lens: Canon EF 100-400mm and a Canon EF-S 60mm Macro

The close-up head shot of the Bald Eagle was with a Canon 1.5 Extender.

Re: New challenges for wildlife videographers
 

Hmm, thanks David. You sure have some nice clips there! When you say 1280 x 1080, do you mean 1280 x 720, as in 720p? Do you find this setting to be what you prefer?
Another question. How far away are you from the bald eagles in the beginning of the video with the 100-400mm lens & is that with the 1.4x extender?
With the XH A1, i find i am wanting a much greater focal length even with the 1.8x Raynox extender, so i was thinking along the lines of a smaller chip changeable lens camera. Only problem is that i would really like to go tapeless, & the only 2 1/3" chip cameras are both HDV. Leaving the EX3, which i think is a very nice camera, but i was hoping for something new to have come out by now, that's all. Oh well, maybe i have to look at trying out something like a 60D as you suggest, & see if it will do the job for me until something more like i'm after comes to market.
Regards,
Bryce

Re: New challenges for wildlife videographers
 

do you mean 1280 x 720, as in 720p? Yes, my brain short circuits sometimes.

My advice would be to try and borrow a 60D for a few hours. Try it out first.

Anyway, I have decided to buy one.

Re: New challenges for wildlife videographers
 

Without a doubt, if you cannot repair the XL-H1, I would go for a DSLR. Either the Mk IV, 7D or 5D. My choice is the full sensor 5D Mark II. The huge crop factor was always an advantage with the Canon XL range of camcorders, but it also added many other problems. Filming without that crop factor means that you need to get closer to the subject, but with less distance between lens and subjects comes a massive increase in quality - less air turbulence and heat ripples, more contrast, less problem with wind, and a host of other adavantages. I've learnt through decades of SLR stills photograhy how to get closer to subjects, so know how difficult it can be... but it is always worthwhile. I found that fitting a 300mm or 600mm Nikkor to the Canon XL body or with the 20X lens, often brought me extremely close to wildlife, but it also sometimes made me lazy, and I always knew in the back of my head that if I spent more effort getting closer, or waiting in the right place longer, then that same wildlife shot with a shorter lens would increase 10-fold in quality and impact.

Re: New challenges for wildlife videographers
 

The Canon 60D has the Fully Articulated LCD Display which was a big selling point for me over the 7D or
5D.

Re: New challenges for wildlife videographers
 

Swinging the LCD Liveview screen (if the 5D had one) would mean that I would need to remove my Hasselblad chimney finder each time. I prefer to leave this in place to aid manual focus. Whenever I need to view the screen at awkward angles or for even viewing and framing the screen at a distance (behind or in front of the camera) I simply use my remote Liveview screen.