Sims_OverTheMountain_UWOLLongForm Feedback Thread
 

As I stated before, the story I’m working on involves a lone Turkey Vulture that leaves her normal territory and flies to the other side of the mountain to forage. Along the way she passes over several different habitats as the altitude changes. The vulture is a means to “look down” into the lives of various other animals in each habitat as she passes over. I think this is called the “chocolate box” approach. I won’t know what other animals are involved until I see what I can find. It makes it difficult to write, but I’ve made a good start. In January I was able to get enough footage for a short sequence. I think it is suggestive of what I’m trying to do even if it probably won’t make the final edit in this form- for example two shots are hand-held.

360x240 Mpeg1 71.5MB
http://www.hotspot-online.net/Video/...OLLongForm.mpg

720x480 Mpeg4 139MB
http://www.hotspot-online.net/Video/...OLLongForm.mp4

I welcome any and all feedback. I would especially like to know:
1) Does the sequence work? Would it interest you to see more?
2) The sound is only ambient sound and Foley. You may need to turn up the volume to hear all the Foley tracks. A finished sequence would have more layers of Foley like feather scratching and feet on branch etc. Since the Foley work is new to me I’d like some input on what I‘ve done so far.
3) I used color replace on the Cottonwood leaves so I can cross edit with green leaves later in the year- could you tell?
4) Encoding for the web is not my strength. Did these files work for you? What should I do different next time?

Mike, I was able to open it with no problems. I like the footag. It does give you the impression that he is sitting there just watching the world go by and all the little interactions below. I especially like the other bird wacking the snot out of that lizard. Very good footage. Bob

HI Mike,
Footage looks great, no problem from what i could see with the encoding for the web. Sequence looked good, i was sort of expecting the turkey vulture to fly down & pinch the lizard from the other bird! Great close ups too. What camera are you using? I thought the filey sounds were great. If you are adding more, then it should work out fantastic. I liked that although these were probably all shots from different days the sound tyed them all together. I can't wait to see what you do with the arial shots you've been talking about, i think that will work fantastically if you can pull it off.
Good luck with the project,
Bryce

Mike, I thought the sequence flowed quite well. Gave the impression of some story progression, whilst creating a scene of other animals around, either watching or simply inhabiting nearby. It looks like you found some hard subjects to film - and have managed to capture them quite well despite zooming in lots.

I forgot about the foley bit before watching it, and the sound seemed fine. Maybe as you get further along and learn more it will be easier to come back to, and maybe redo the bits you really want to stand out.

Mike, nice footage. I think the sequences was good, but would like some narrating too. Maybe tell something about the different species while the footage run. For me the species shown are totally unknown, so it's important to inform the audience what's going on.

Hi Mike.
Great footage.
I am not familiar with these birds you're showing, but it all seems very exiting.
I would like some narration, explaning what's going on.
Looking forward to see more of your film.

Geir Inge

Mike,

Ahhh the turkey Vulture. An interesting bird. I have a picture i took not that far from you of about 30 turkey vultures all lined up on some power poles. With all the road kills in Texas you should be able to get some good feeding footage!! I used to frequent the south down by eagle to brownsville every fall. Astounding amount of wildlife!!

You have some nice footage already, I can't wait to see what you get over the next 6 months.

Like the footage and your story is a novel idea. I think some narration would help the piece.
I think the sound was great. Very natural.

Bob- Thanks. Could you tell on the web version that the lizard was very much alive through the whole ordeal? It actually escaped later.

Bryce- Yes, different days and locations. I’m using 5 cameras on this project. Most of what you saw was shot with my main camera-still my workhorse XL1s (I’ve been budgeted twice to upgrade it and life intervened. If nothing else untoward happens I should do in a couple of months. Wish me luck!). Second camera is an old 1-chipper Sony Digital8. I mostly use it in a camera trap in IR mode. The bird with lizard clips were shot hand-held with it. I had just driven 10 hours to get there and pulled up to my campsite. As I stopped the car I noticed them 5 feet out the driver’s window. This was the only camera I could reach without making a fuss. The shots you saw were at a distance of about 12 feet with my elbows jammed into the window frame of my little Metro for support! The other cameras are for special shots. A Canon still and intervalometer for time-lapse. A bullet cam for “down and inside things”. The little light weight one I mentioned earlier for aerial shots. I’m going to try flying it from a towed helium balloon soon. More on that later…

Andrew- I wasn’t sure what you meant by zooming so I took another look. I don’t think you mean the zoon where I follow the running bird so as to keep it at the same relative size. I think you mean where I cut from a wide view to a closer one with no change in camera angle or cutaway. In retrospect I found it annoying as well. Less so for the last instance since there was a slight angle change (different birds). Let me know if you disagree and thanks for pointing that out.

I’m surprised no one has pointed out the “jump cut”. In one clip the vulture in the tree makes a rapid movement of a tail feather. Only about an inch. It starts on one frame and finishes 2 frames later. On the compressed file it looks like a horrible jump cut. Gotta fix it.

Per Johan and Geir Inge- Thank-you. Yes, there will be narration and music. Please allow me to apologize. I actually left the voice over out on purpose. It was selfish of me. I wanted feedback about the Foley sounds (after all it’s really just me mucking about in a box of dirt!) and didn’t want to distract from you hearing them. I should have taken the needs of the viewers into consideration. Sorry about that- it won’t happen again. Please allow me to now introduce you to some Chihuahuan Desert fauna in order of appearance:

Turkey Vulture- this is a New World vulture and not related to your Old World vultures, but with similar feeding habits. It is called Turkey because it’s red head resembles that of a wild Turkey.

Roadrunner- Doesn’t look much like the beep-beeping cartoon! It is a ground dwelling member of the cuckoo family and a voracious predator on insects, rodents, other small birds and reptiles including snakes and lizards.

Western Diamondback Rattlesnake- This is the poisonous snake from all the cowboy movies. Roadrunners kill and eat them.

Desert Spiny Lizard- The second one on a rock is doing a territorial display.

Western Screech Owl- A small Otus owl not unlike, I think, your (in Europe anyway) Scops Owl.

Gray Fox- Widespread from southern Canada to northern South America. It is our only fox to climb trees.


I hope this helps. Thanks for being patient with the newcomer.

Dale- An interesting bird indeed. And an unlikely hero of the story? They’re here year around but in winter we have lots of them. There is a microwave tower nearby that has 150-200 roosting on it every night. Next time you’re down on my patch give us a holler, or as we say in Texas- “Y’all come.”

Mihali- I’m feeling better about the sound now. Thanks for your input. I’m not sure how novel the idea is. At this point I’m just hoping people will find it interesting!

You have many great shots for your long form.
I like The Turkey Vulture´s red head against the blue sky.
You have a good cut where the T.V. raises its head and looks at the snake.
When the T.V. is folding out the wings and you in the next cut show us the birds back from a different angle, that is very good.

Finn-Erik

Hi Mike,
That was nice of the bird with the lizard to make it so easy on you. It's funny how it just happens like that sometimes.
I was thinking all along for some reason that you would be doing the arial shots with a remote controlled helicopter or something. Funny thing is, i was thinking the other day how cool it would be if i could get some arial shots myself. A remote controlled helicopter would be out of the question both for the financial reason & having to learn to fly it. I was then thinking about the possibility of a helium balloon. Now i have seen your response to me i see that that's what you're actually doing. I will be very interested to see & hear how it goes especially how much control you have over where it faces & how responsive you can get it. Great idea, & i'm really looking forward to seeing more of your film.
Regards,
Bryce

Hey Bryce,
Like you say, sometimes it just happens. I was once able to document a new bird for our state list like that. The bird had been seen several times but no one had managed any shots of it. There were about 150 people waiting for it to return- most with cameras. I was on the edge of the crowd and had pointed my camera a different direction to help keep it out of the sun. After several hours of waiting I looked up and realized it was sitting on a branch in my field of view. I reached over and hit record and managed to get 10 secs before it flew. It was the only image recorded and got the bird accepted. No telling how long it had been there before I saw it. Just think of all the things we’ve all seen when we either didn’t have a camera or weren’t set up to shoot!
I’m still going to try those other ideas I mentioned. I also would like to try RC helos but the expense and near vertical learning curve prevent it for now. I got the balloon idea from this guy:
Information on Killer Camera Rigs That You Can Build
Don’t let the kitsch put you off. He has some really good ideas (like cranes and dollies that are easy to build) and very detailed instructions. I found it well worth the cost. I’ll definitely let you know if it works, or not, and post photos of my rig.

Sounds like you have an interesting movie in the making, Mike.

I have absolutely no idea what is causing the problem, but no matter what I try I cannot get your movie to download. It chews up bandwidth, so it appears to be going through the process of downloading, but absolutely nothing materializes - no site, no movie. I am sure I could get it downloaded from the Uwol site but you haven’t uploaded it there for some reason.

Sounds like you have an interesting movie in the making here Mike.

I have absolutely no idea what is causing the problem, but no matter what I try I cannot get your movie to download. It chews up bandwidth, so it appears to be going through the process of downloading, but absolutely nothing materializes - no site, no movie. I am sure I could get it downloaded from the Uwol site but you haven’t uploaded it there for some reason.

Marj,
I’m sorry you were unable to download from my server. I didn’t get any other reports of problems, but no doubt others probably also had difficulties. With the help of Kevin Railsback, I have now uploaded my round one video to the UWOL server. Thanks for pointing out the problem.

Thanks Mike - will download it and post my comments.
Marj

Second Round
 

I've uploaded second round videos:

UWOL server- 56MB


Larger Version- 160MB
http://www.hotspot-online.net/Video/...ain_Round2.mp4


I'm not ready to start putting together final sequences yet. Here are some clips to show what I've been up to. Sound has location, ambient, Foley, voiceover, and music. How is the mix? Can you hear the hummingbird at your normal listening level? Thanks.

Hi Mike

I will slip this in now before others comment on your new submission.

I would go along with much of what has been commented on already. I think your story has potential and I like the approach you have adopted in this particular submission - splitting each of your scenes and spreading them across the sequence. This gives the impression that there are a number of birds and animals continually present in the scenario all witnessing the goings on, even though you don’t see all of them at the same time. Splitting scenes does make things busier so be careful how much you use it.

I do find the bird call repeated so often a bit of a problem however - probably because it is constantly calling and yet one never gets to see the bird that is making the call. It may be better to repeat it less or perhaps you could use three or more calls in the background to create your ambience. A lot of time has gone into creating the sound for this sequence which certainly adds depth to the scene. I have to admit this is first time I’ve heard of a Foley box. (I’m learning.) The sound of the bird whacking the lizard could perhaps change in volume as you point your camera away from it to make it a bit more realistic.

Your owl looks quite a bit like our little African Scops-Owl.

Second Round Links
 

Second round videos:

UWOL server- 56MB
http://www.uwolchallenge.com/longfor...ongForm1-2.mp4

Larger Version- 160MB
http://www.hotspot-online.net/Video/...ain_Round2.mp4


I'm not ready to start putting together final sequences yet. Here are some clips to show what I've been up to. Sound has location, ambient, Foley, voiceover, and music. How is the mix? Can you hear the hummingbird at your normal listening level? Thanks.

Mike:

Well, well, well. You are putting together the pieces for a spectacular documentary. This was captivating and very enjoyable to watch. Beautiful footage, interesting commentary and species diversity. The richness of the desert colors and birds are almost to the point of saturation! I have no idea how you are going to follow a turkey vulture bird's eye view to move through your documentary, but I'm looking forward to seeing the results of your efforts.

I know this is a show of cobbling footage for now, but there was a cut away to a scenic shot just after you introduced the rattlesnake that seemed a bit distracting. It's interesting, but here in Colorado, our broad-tailed hummingbirds look very different from yours. I'll have to go back and listen for its sound. I was expecting the beating of its wings so I may have missed it.

Fine filming throughout. The opening pan of the rock cliffs aglow was spectacular, and the time-lapse was also very well done. Following the white-tailed deer on the run was masterful.

Looking forward to our next works in progress.

Cat

Hi Mike

Well, what a display of species, I'm super jealous. How I'd love a few days out shooting here !!! I've just been reading about the Pronghorns actually, amazing animal, and the fastest on the planet over a sustained distance. What is even more interesting about that is WHY ! This evolution of speed must have been for a reason, can you imagine the cat that must have chased them....some sort of super cheetah maybe! Maybe this is something of a back story to follow.

What I didn't get was anything about your story from this. I understand these will be items that are covered on the way, but they should still relate back to the main story in some way. Think of them as sub-plots within your main premise.

The photography is nice but some more use of 'levels of detail'/alternate angles/reveals would be nice to turn some of these into even tastier sequences.

You seem to have a bird call audio that repeats throughout a lot of the differing shots.


Really nice stuff, looking forward to seeing your film take some shape in round 3.

Mat

Mike, very nice looking footage/sequences and so many species you got there! Cat and Mat already commented about the details in your entry. But I think you will work out a fine piece from this one Mike. Looking forward to your film in the next round.

Wow Mike,
what an opening shot. Those mountains were truly beautiful in that light. I loved to see all the different animals, & am really interested in seeing how you put all these clips together. The footage of the white tail deer was awesome, & to have those pronghorn antelope come right up to you must have been a fantastic surprise! You certainly seem to know a lot of the animals in your area, i hope you will be filling us all in with some more info on each of them in your final piece. I can't wait to see your future submissions.
Regards,
Bryce

Mike, I was captivated by your footage and impressed that you were able to capture a typically nocturnal animal in the day time. You must have a lot of patience.

Even though this is not a final product it still kept my interest with the pacing and the large variety of wildlife shots. Really quite interesting especially with your commentary which I laughed out loud at when you said "The obligatory rattle snake shot" and how the disposable camera tourist stepped in front of your shot during the deer scene.

Nice job looking forward to seeing more!

Absolutely wonderful footage especially your scenery and the birds. How many hours have I spent unsuccessfully looking for that owl? And as I was wondering "Is he going to show a Montezuma Quail" There it was! I'll have to call you next trip. By the way, do you know Carolyn Ohl?
You might want to cut back on the red in the Vermilion Flycatcher, it bleeds.
Also there is visible interlace artifact on the ears of your deer. Can you deinterlace it? I like the continuity of the voice of the (Cassin's?) Kingbird. You might want to show the bird at some point to establish it as a player. Can't wait to see what you come up with next.

Marj- Thanks for your good advice. My storey calls for quite a bit of that and it leaves me vulnerable to continuity problems or just plain confusing the audience. I’ll discuss the bird call in a later post so please keep reading. As I understand it, Foley was the name of the sound man on an early live radio show. He invented lots of the sound effects techniques. When Hollywood began making sound pictures they copied his methods and named the entire process after him. I’ve been experimenting some more and found that panning the effect in stereo space adds a lot. Stay tuned!

Cat- Thank-you for your nice comments. You’ll get a better idea how the vulture’s eye view hopefully works in the next round.
The best guide to identifying our hummers is Peregrine Video’s DVD- Hummingbirds of North America. I have a lot of footage in it as does Don Desjardin who’s a regular around here. It was produced just down the road from you in Niwot. If you don’t know PV’s John Vanderpoel, look him up. He’s a great guy. The sound I was referring to is the Foley I added of the bird scratching it’s chin.

Mat- Come on over! I’ll not only guide I’ll carry your tripod. Have a look at the fossil genus Miracinonyx. They’re often called the “American Cheetahs”. Although they diverged from cougar stock after true cheetahs diverged from the cougar-jaguarundi line, they have many of the same specializations. Very probably they ran at least as fast. Another good question to ponder- Why did the pronghorn survive when the rest of the antilocaprid fauna (which was just as species rich as the African true antelope fauna) didn’t? Also, why didn’t they radiate from North America when horses and camelids did?
In the next round my plan is to show an almost finished sequence. Hopefully it will have the levels of detail you (and I) seek. I’m beginning to despair that I won’t have the time to get as many sequences like that as I’d hoped.
I’ve been finding your comments very helpful. Please keep them coming. Thanks.

Per Johan- Thank-you for your kind words and encouragement. It means a lot to me.

Bryce- Thanks. I’m pleased you liked the opening pan. It was inspired by the pans you and Chris used in your first round submissions. It’s a series of still shots stitched together into a panorama in Photoshop and animated in AE. It was fun to do but I’m not sure there’s a place for it in the final video.
The pronghorn encounter was almost a much bigger surprise. As I said, the blind was atop my little Metro. When I heard them approaching I leaned forward to look out and see what it was, lost my balance, and myself the camera and blind almost came ass-over-teakettle off the car! Even though they look kind of scruffy because they are losing that winter coat, I like the higher than usual camera angle. I think it might turn out useful to the storey.

Jeff- The pocket gopher footage was just a whole lot of luck and a little bit of sacrifice. I awoke that morning to find him working at his burrow entrance about a foot outside the door of my tent. Of course, I was in the tent and the cameras were locked in my car. I used my pocket knife to cut a slit in the back of the tent and crawled out and circled wide around. The car was still packed for the highway and the only camera I could get to without making a lot of noise was the little one-chip Sony. The car was only about a dozen feet away from the tent. I spent a very frantic couple of minutes getting to a blank tape. When I returned he was still there. I got about 20 minutes hand held out the front flap. Range from glass to nose was about two feet.
I’m just lucky that the girl fired her flash while she was in frame or I’d have had two bad spots to cover. I hope she got her shot.

Steve- Next time you’re in Texas be sure to give me a holler. That goes for all of you! Carolyn is an old birding buddy. The snake clip in my first round video was shot a stone’s throw from her Christmas Mountains oasis. I’m not allowed to tell anyone where to find the owls, but there’s nothing preventing me from giving directions to “a good spot to watch birds” (wink).
I desaturated the flycatcher until the background looked terrible. I shouldn’t have used it. It’s my only clip from this year. I mostly put it in out of nostalgia. Ghost in the machine. That was the bird that got me started watching birds when I was a boy. Forty some odd years later and I’m still at it.
You have a good ear. That’s a Cassin’s. It’s just about the only audio I’ve had a chance to get this year. I used it as a continuity track, but while it made sense in the first round where everything is supposedly taking place at the same location, the shots from the second round were so obviously at different locations that it bothered many. I don’t yet have video of the bird from this year. I need to get busy recording audio. As Marj said, the ambient sound beds need to be multilayered.
Not sure about that deer ear problem. I could have sworn that was shot as progressive. I’ll have a go at it as soon as I get a chance. Thanks.

Thank goodness the monsoon has finally arrived. With the rain and lower temps the desert should be greening up. Many animals in the area time their reproduction to this “fifth season” since there is generally more rain in late summer than in spring. Now if I can just clear up a few things around here (like UWOL #14) and get out there!

Hi Mike.
I think your on to a great and spectacular documentary film.
All those species, I envy you.
I fell off a bit, trying to keep up with your org plan. I miss the connection to the turkey, but maybe it'll all come to sense in the final version.
Keep up the good work.

All the best
Geir Inge

Here’s my Round 3 submission. It’s a bit closer to a final version, or at least, it gives an idea what I’m shooting for. Some of the shots are poor but they’re all I’ve managed to get. Some I can re-shoot, others no way. I’ll need to give some thought to how to re-edit without them. Once again the audio is all added in post. When I compressed it messed up my audio mix again. The VO is too loud in the mix.

Larger version:
http://hotspot-online.net/Video/Over...ain_Round3.mp4

Mike,
This section is really good, especially the rock steady owl footage. I would guess that video of fledgling Mexican Spotted Owls is rather rare. Also I would love to see more of the absolutely spectacular scenery of your chosen area. The purples are gorgeous.
One suggestion is that your highlights tend to burn when shooting in sunlight. You might try to shoot a little darker, which would also intensify the colors some.
What was the bird giving that double-note whistle during the owl scenes?

Hi Mike.
I think your nr 3 video is fine.
Loved the shot of the owl, very good.
Isn't difficult to shoot/follow the action when things suddenly happens?
Like when the owl is catching the mouse, it's hard to focus and follow the action, eh?
I think you shall keep a bit of the action scene, is it in slow motion? If not, maybe you should make this particular scene in slow motion?
Maybe the average viewer won't pay attention to these things, but I have seen some norwegian owls and they don't make wing flapping sound when they fly. That's why their so good at hunting, their flight is almost complete silence. Just an idea, but what about changing the wing flapping to something more like a short/momantary windy sound?
Well done Mike, cant wait to see the final version.

All the best.
Geir Inge

PS
Is it possible to short'n the size of your file?
420 MB is almost too big for downloading at this stage in the contest.

Steve- There are so few Mexican Spotted Owls in the country I guess footage of them is unusual. I’m going to be shooting more wide shots of the mountains next week. I’ll try processing the shots with the blown out backlight with a luminance trash matte and maybe replace the highlights with a blue sky shot. We’ll see.

Geir Inge- That shot was tough. I was out of breath and my hands were shaking because I had just sprinted up the mountain, the tripod was still on my back, and then the bird pounced right in front of me (3 meters) and flew to 25 meters. To make matters worse there is a big (half the frame missing) dropout towards the end of the shot were I was finally in focus. That is why there is a cut away in the wrong place. I hadn’t thought of slowing it down. Thanks, I’ll give it a try.
I was wondering if anyone would mention the wing flaps. You are correct. Owls have a specialization where the feathers on the front edge of their wings have no barbs. It makes their wing beats almost silent. The sound is from a captive hawk recorded in a large quiet room. I had turned the volume down so they could barely be heard but somehow they came out way too loud!

The contest file on the UWOL server is 170 mb, but I’ll try to get a smaller “large” file up soon.

Thanks for the encouragement guys.

As promised, here is a smaller(248mb) large file. I didn’t fix anything, merely recompress.
http://www.hotspot-online.net/Video/...in_Round3b.mp4

Mike,

Here you have good footage for your long form video.
I like the hummingbird in different angels and situations. Some of the owl shots are impressing.
Maybe you can darken some shots a bit, in the mid and lower range, to get some higher contrast?

Thanks Finn-Erik. That’s a good suggestion. I’ll give it a try when I get back from the desert.