Re: Tales of wonders and woe - UWOL #21
 

Hmm, only 3 minutes, well that is a challenge for me, this round.
Wish I had 5 minutes, but I wont give up my original plan yet.
Shot my last scenes yesterday and previous day, down by my fathers boathouse and at Runde island.
My problem is how to cut together clips from Crete and Norway,
into one sensible piece within 3 minutes?
Also I'm not that used to Vegas yet, may I come over Dale so you can teach me a trick or two :)
Hope everyone is doing fine out there?

Re: Tales of wonders and woe - UWOL #21
 

I know that feeling, Geir Inge. Sometimes I can tell the story I want in three minutes, but only by rushing to get it all in and ruining the timing. I often wish for another minute or two so I can work on the pace. I think Marj has said this as well. I hope it works out for you. I’d like to see your footage from Crete!

Trond- Perhaps try feeding the gulls some fish. The gulls I see will overcome their fear of many things if they think something to eat is possible.

Re: Tales of wonders and woe - UWOL #21
 

I watched deleted scenes on a feature film with the director's commentary. There was one scene he cut that I thought it would have helped me understand part of the movie better if it had been left in; however, it certainly wasn't crucial to the story. Try to keep that in mind when you are paring down your entry.

A few times I've wished I had finished a 4-5 minute film to my liking and rendered that before slicing the extra minutes off. You might consider doing that, then after the contest giving us the full version to compare. Oftentimes, our leaner version is actually better, but not always.

Re: Tales of wonders and woe - UWOL #21
 

Just thought of another thing to consider: If you've cut as much as you can bear and it still laps over the time limit, ask someone whose judgment you trust to watch it and suggest further cuts. I did that for a friend once who said he just couldn't cut more without ruining his film. It tightened up the piece and he ended up liking it better. He didn't win that time, but judging by the feedback it wasn't because of the edit. ;)

Re: Tales of wonders and woe - UWOL #21
 

Good tip, I'll try that out next time.

Re: Tales of wonders and woe - UWOL #21
 

Thank you for supporting comments :)
First I must "tailor" my manuscript, then I must consider what scenes I want from Crete.
Right now I think I will use some underwater clips and some more "spacious" clips.
Not so much to see from the island itself, or creatures - some fish maybe.
The challenge lies in linking the clips from Crete, to the clips from Norway, without extending the limit of 3 minutes and to make a sensible story out of it.
But I'm working on it :)

Re: Tales of wonders and woe - UWOL #21
 

I do agree with you - three weeks is a horrible rush especially for working folk. Trying to put something together that is hopefully worthwhile watching takes time. I really hope a month to complete our films will become the norm rather than the exception . . . now if only I had known this at sign-up time . . :)

Funnily enough, while I had a major headache squeezing my latest entry, I don't believe the films should be longer than three minutes - most folk here find it difficult enough to fill three minutes, never mind five.

I always spend a good deal of time cutting out stuff, so five minutes won't help the likes of me. Sometimes it needs a radical re-arrangement of clips to shorten what is being said while at other times I just have to simplify my thoughts to make it more concise. Sometimes it requires a mangle - like changing three-syllable words to single syllable words (e.g "difficult" to "hard" ) to get it to fit!! All part of the learning curve I guess.




Trond - Ideally you need some sort of hide, then you can move about without causing any disturbance. Even a hide needs to be set up slowly and carefully and eased into place.Preferably it should be set up outside of the area and moved in. It takes a while for the birds to get used to it. Your tripod should also be set up and the camera attached to it out of sight and long before you get anywhere near them particularly if you don't use a hide. Birds seem to be sensitive to noise as well as movement.

Re: Tales of wonders and woe - UWOL #21
 

Yesterday I went to Kvamsoy island for some more shooting.
I thought I had enough, but was in need for some new "ottershots".
And I was lucky to get some close ups, never been so close to a otter before, that is with my camera rolling.
Who did say the otter is not a fish? At least they have some delicious fish and crab for lunch ;)
But relax the otter is not the main issue in my video this time.
How's everyone doing?
I'm waiting in anticipation to see what you all will bring to "surface" this round.
I have also ordered a new extender to my XlH1, anyone out tried it?
Canon 1,6 Extender TIL XL-1 / XL-H1.

Re: Tales of wonders and woe - UWOL #21
 

Wow. This is tough - I'm glad there was an extension!

Is anyone here gunning for a full-house (all four classes)? I'm going to try and do it, but I've only managed to shoot one class so far. I'm really going to have to get in gear this week; I have a couple of interviews lined up, along with some field shoots close by. One of them is going to be really problematic though....

It's going to be tight!

Re: Tales of wonders and woe - UWOL #21
 

Geir,

I used the Canon 1.6 extender. It really is a good piece of equipment. It gave a sharper image than any other extender I tried on the system.

Re: Tales of wonders and woe - UWOL #21
 

Thank you for respond on the extender.
I've allready order it, but I'm not sure I'll get within the timelimit of this round though.
By the way; do you know if the ZR-2000 zoom/focus remotecontrol will work together with the extender?

I'm still in the edit process when it comes to my video for this round.
Maybe I'll take another trip to Kvamsoy island to do a underwater scene, but the water is running cold these days, so far north, so I have to think about it once or twice, before I jump to conclusion :)

Re: Tales of wonders and woe - UWOL #21
 

Thanks Marj,
I was able to get a few usable shots from about 200 meters away yesterday.
Still working on how to improve my skills of filming birds in flight. Think I might need some advise from our master Dale there. But practice makes master. :)

Re: Tales of wonders and woe - UWOL #21
 

Good evening,

I have about 30 seconds of usable video, that means about two 6 second cuts, ug. I may have to rethink my theme.

Tronde, Shooting birds in action takes a lot of practice!! I have been doing it over a decade and I still do not get it right as often as I would like!! Practice, practice, practice. and then now and then you will get amazing footage!!!

After 20 formal uwol's and 2 fun shoots, I may swim this round if I do not change my theme.


As I typed this I had an epiphany, linking birds, flying, sailing, and kiting, HUM, may have to go with that.

I hope others are having an easier time than I have had this round!!!!!!

Re: Tales of wonders and woe - UWOL #21
 

I’m having a bit of a tough time this round too. As of today, though, I think I’ll have enough to finish something- it just won’t be much to be proud of. I’m feeling pretty foolish for choosing to feature an aquatic creature during an epic drought. The high temperatures aren’t just uncomfortable for me, they are really limiting the behaviour I can record. I’m also dealing poorly with my anemia and the attendant bad attitude (which you have no doubt noticed).

Re: Tales of wonders and woe - UWOL #21
 

I have filmed and edited 50% of what I need so far. I've tried to feature all four classes in the theme (at 3 minutes this works out at 45 seconds per class). All four creatures are linked through a common thread, as told by 4 different people. The last 2 interviews are this week followed by the last 2 location shoots.

The problem I am having is that I am filming way too much footage. For example, last week I filmed a snake expert who rescues snakes from houses and farms (they are usually killed when seen; he has convinced people to call him instead so he can catch them). I filmed over an hour of footage of him searching for a snake, catching it, and then talking to the family about it. The end result: 4 jump cuts (at 2 seconds each) for the final cut!

Just to reconfirm; final run time is 3 minutes PLUS credits allowed extra time?

Re: Tales of wonders and woe - UWOL #21
 

Dale,
Thanks for the tips. Practice will hopefully make master. :)
Found it actually "less difficult" to film some of them handheld than with tripod.

Simon,
Yes, you are right. Credits are allowed in addition to the 3 minute limit.

Re: Tales of wonders and woe - UWOL #21
 

OK, I have a rough edit and things aren’t as bad as I feared. I don’t have any really outstanding shots, but what I have should work. The “story” has a bit of everything- a little action, loss and recovery, nudity, and even more salamanders…

Simon- It’s a lot more comfortable to have too much footage than not quite enough! I also will show all four classes (and mention the missing fifth) though not quite in the systematic fashion you seem to be doing. I’m looking forward to seeing your video.

Dale- C’mon, Dale. We’ve seen you pull off some miracles under conditions that would have been impossible for me! You can do this. I hope your new idea works out for you.

Trond- I’m glad you got the shot you needed. Besides practice it is also good technique. This is how it was explained to me by John Bax (who was a Master, I am not). Start with your feet well apart. Brace the camera to your shoulder. Point the toe of your front foot in the direction you want the shot to end. Keep your back foot at ninety degrees to the front foot. As you pivot at the hip, shift your weight from the back foot to the front foot. Practice, practice, practice.

Geir Inge- Have you decided to take the plunge? (Into the cold water, not into the Shark Tank!)

I hope everyone we haven’t heard from yet is doing well. I still hope to see a round where everyone that signs up finishes!

Re: Tales of wonders and woe - UWOL #21
 

Well, I've just come home from a short visit to Kvamsoy island.
I was propper dressed for the occasion, as you all can see :)
Warm and nice with my 7 mm thick wet suit.
Now I'm browsing through the tape to see if there's something I can use for uwol 21.
I have changed manuscript a little bit along the way, so I've tried to listen to what you said Marj,
about shorten down a bit ;)
Here's a photo taken by my brother (cell phone picture).

Re: Tales of wonders and woe - UWOL #21
 

OK. It's done!

I finished the edit this afternoon: 3 minutes on the dot (excluding credits). I wanted to try and get it finished in time for the original deadline (as practice for future competitions).

I'll use the extra time to do some fine tuning to the edit, and to rework the score to match the visuals a bit better. I might try and get a couple of extra pick up shots too if I have time.

The main hurdle for me is getting it off the damn computer with decent compression. Does anyone know what the guidelines are this time around (I guess we can just go with the Sorenson specs from previous competitions)?

Not sure if I'm entirely happy with the end result however...

Re: Tales of wonders and woe - UWOL #21
 

Way to go, Simon! Compression guidelines have not be determined yet. We'll try to get a decision soon. Because you have the time perhaps you could go with the old UWOL guidelines on one version, then try one using the Vimeo guidelines or something similar and compare.
Compression guidelines on Vimeo

Re: Tales of wonders and woe - UWOL #21
 

Simon - you certainly seem to be very organized!

Geir - really looking forward to seeing how you construct this one - two very different types of locations in one film - sounds fascinating.

Re: Tales of wonders and woe - UWOL #21
 

So, I drive about 60 miles to this place outside Macon, GA to do some videoing. Get all the way there, go to turn onto the road...Hello, road closed for construction. Anyway, it was a nice drive. Back to plan B. Oh wait, that was plan B.

Re: Tales of wonders and woe - UWOL #21
 

Still one week to come up with a plan C, Bob. :)

Maybe I should say that to myself as well. Filmed a little, but I'm afraid most of my birds will get the audience a bit "sea sick", and can't be used.
Staying away from the sharks will be the goal. But the good part... I've learn something new about the local birds and their behavior.

Re: Tales of wonders and woe - UWOL #21
 

I spend this morning in the sea to shoot the last bits and pieces I needed. I now think I got all my shot. Need to fix some graphic and then editing.

Thanks Lorinda for you help with the VO (should have sad that some time ago, but to much work...), I think it will fit the pilot...

… Just got a call from Swedish national TV and the wild life show... two days filming this upcoming week.

Re: Tales of wonders and woe - UWOL #21
 

Actually shot some footage for a UWOL video! First time in four tries!

Of course, it's all in my backyard, and I had a window of about an hour to do it... so there's substantial chance the edit may be slightly less majestic than crashing waves of the Baltic Sea, but oh well. I'm a happy fellow.


EDIT:

Wonder quickly becomes woe... for some reason, my mind inserted "insects" somewhere in the theme announcement... DOH!

Well, aside from a few incidental shots of a fence lizard, I've currently got nothing... later, maybe something... just maybe...

Re: Tales of wonders and woe - UWOL #21
 

Puh!
Then I have to rewrite the manuscript after having rejected several scenes that I found useless.
The reason is that I have to adapt the story to fill three minutes or less - shorten, shorten, shorten ...
Thank you for giving us a few days more (31.August), because I think I have to shoot some more scenes,
thanks to the turnaround of the manuscript. And then back to the editing prosess.

Re: Tales of wonders and woe - UWOL #21
 

Wow, I think many of us have run into difficulties this round. At the first place I went to, I found my animals, but the water levels were so reduced that they were too far from the areas I was allowed to be in to record even with the 600mm lens. The second place I went was completely dry. I finally found a place to get some shots (at longer telephoto than I wanted) but the subjects were completely inactive. Boring. The story is weak. (To make matters worse, I know that some of you literally have these guys crawling around your back yards!) I ended up using less than the full three minutes and finishing a little after the original deadline. I should be using the extra time, but I think I lack the objectivity to improve anything. I’m basically waiting for “the word” about compressing and uploading, and already looking forward to next time…
Good-luck everyone!

Re: Tales of wonders and woe - UWOL #21
 

I finished editing this night and is waiting for rendering right now. I think it turn out ok... The animation is a bit ruff, but ok I hope :)

Re: Tales of wonders and woe - UWOL #21
 

Hi Mike,
Thanks for the above info. I have done what you suggested, and created an uncompressed version of the movie. What is confusing me is what type of project to create to work with it (the footage is very small and centered when played on SD projects)?

*Sorry Mike, just saw you had provided detailed info in your link! Going to try and do this tomorrow - just had a big power cut which took out my desktop editing computer (laptop running on batteries). Pulling my hair out!

Re: Tales of wonders and woe - UWOL #21
 

Hi Trond,

Thanks for the tips above. I tried doing the same settings at a bitrate of 1500, but the video came out rough (like some sections were slow motion, and jumps) - strange. That video came out at about 32mbs.

The video at bitrate of 21.6 came out at about 92mbs - does lowering the bitrate increase the size of the video?!

I can see this thing slipping away from me now, because of my compression issues (as I predicted in the beginning!).

Re: Tales of wonders and woe - UWOL #21
 

I haven't heard any updates on the new guidelines just yet, but to save some hassle with the current setup, I have some advice.

If you're willing and able to export an uncompressed (or losslessly compressed) version of your footage, you're in great shape; first, download the version of Handbrake that applies to your OS (Windows, OS X, and Linux all supported). Then grab a copy of the preset I've put together: http://www.mediafire.com/?s6o2xicyh2iguui

Install and run Handbrake, then click Source->Video File and choose your uncompressed clip. Wait a moment for it to load, then go to the Presets menu and choose Import. Open the "UWOL 60MB 428x240.plist" file you downloaded. Once it loads, be sure to choose the preset by clicking its name in the presets pane over on the right.

Now, it seems that Handbrake's ability to properly export and import presets is incomplete (I had to hand edit the PLIST file just to get the proper width and height values, as they didn't export correctly), so you'll need to make some adjustments yourselves.

The only things you'll need to change are on the Picture tab, which is open by default. Make sure that Width is set to 428, Height is set to 240, and Anamorphic is set to None. Next to Modulus (one value I couldn't successfully export), choose 4. I'm not sure if this setting affects anything but the auto-calculation of image size when using Keep Aspect Ratio, but 428 is not a multiple of 16 or 8, and I don't want any unexpected resizing to take place, so I prefer to be safe. This may not be an issue, but I'm not a Handbrake expert.

Cropping should be set to Custom, with all sides set to 0 (these are the other values that wouldn't stick). Strictly speaking this means your video will be distorted, since 428x240 (1.78333...) is not 16:9 (1.777...). Nonetheless, it's imperceptible, and better not to crop off parts of your frame unnecessarily.

Everything else should be properly imported from the preset. On the Video tab, you can see that Target Size is set to 60MB, and two pass (with turbo first pass) is enabled, since we're targeting a specific bitrate. The audio tab shows AAC audio set to 160kbps, which is quite nice, and over on the Advanced tab you'll see that this preset is based on Handbrake's builtin "Universal" Apple preset, which means this file should play on damn near anything. If you can't play back a file using as few features as are available in Baseline H.264 at Level 3.0, you're working with some seriously Stone Age equipment.

With everything set up, just choose a destination file and click Start. Once the encode is finished, you're all set!

More generalized advice, not specific to Handbrake, is to stick with H.264 video and AAC audio in an MP4 container; in 2011 there's no excuse to be wasting time with MPEG-1 or Sorenson 3, unless you know your audience is using equipment that absolutely cannot handle anything better. Frankly, if I had my way the UWOL compression guidelines would bump the resolution up to 640x360, as all examples I've seen from prior competitions convince me that the quality is already maxed out at 428x240; the soft, mushy look is due only to the low resolution (at least, when that low resolution is stretched up to fullscreen on playback), and throwing more bits at the video won't help. Increasing the image size, while keeping the filesize limit intact, should make things look better, strange as it may initially sound.

Use the highest bitrate you can within the filesize restraint. Figuring out that bitrate by hand, if necessary, is very easy. Target Size in Handbrake, like any other application, is only a convenient way of calculating a constant bitrate. The formula is simply:

desired filesize in kilobits / length in seconds = kilobits per second

You can use Google to do the conversions, just type "60 megabytes in kilobits" into the search bar and it'll compute the answer for you. Or just work out the answer the old fashioned way if you prefer. In any event, the filesize limit here is 60 megabytes, or 491,520 kilobits, and the time limit is three minutes, or 180 seconds. 491,520 / 180 = 2730 (rounded down to avoid an oversized file). Assuming an audio bitrate of 160kbps, that leaves 2570kbps for video, which for H.264 at 428x240 and 24, 25 or 30 fps is an embarrassment of riches. If your video is below the maximum length, you'll of course be able to up the bitrate, but as I said, unless your video content is exceptionally complex, 2570kbps is already quite generous given the UWOL restrictions, even with Baseline@L3.0.

Re: Tales of wonders and woe - UWOL #21
 

Robert, thanks for your detailed response; I appreciate you taking the time to explain it. I'm traveling at the moment so I am unable to give this a try, but I will do so when I get back to my editing computer next week.

Re: Tales of wonders and woe - UWOL #21
 

Sorry I didn't get around sooner. This guide is much appreciated, Robert. I've got a different project that may benefit from all of this, although, it's a bit complicated for my brain. As always, thank you so much for your willingness to help.

Re: Tales of wonders and woe - UWOL #21
 

Hi you all.

Need a little help from my friends (ref. Beatles).

It's how to render from Vegas Pro.
I try to render a wmv file, but when I try to play it back, I get some noisy lines (like shaking or stripes)?
How to render best possible from Vegas (Dale?)?

Geir Inge

Re: Tales of wonders and woe - UWOL #21
 

Geir, I use Vegas...got these render settings from my DVC pal Robert Martens (see post 71 above) that have always worked for me:

Use Main Concept AAC/AVC
Leave Template as is
click on Custom > Video > Frame size > Custom
make the width 1280, the height 720
click on Constant Bit Rate choose to your liking (Robert had me use 3,000,000)

Maybe Dale or someone else has another solution, as well.

Re: Tales of wonders and woe - UWOL #21
 

Thank you very much Lorinda, I'll try it out :)

Squeezed to wrong with in vimeo pro?
 

When I play back my video from Vimeo Pro it is squeezed, wrong with for some reason, but not when I play it back from my own vimeo account?
Geir Inge

Re: Tales of wonders and woe - UWOL #21
 

Hmm...a couple other videos seem to be all right, but let me check out the settings again. In the meantime, let's experiment a bit. Go to your video in Vimeo Pro, within the Settings click on video file, use your own player, and put in the link to your file in Vimeo Plus. Hope it works!

Re: Tales of wonders and woe - UWOL #21
 

Hi again.
It didn't work, so now I will try to delete the file and then upload again, thumbs up :)

Re: Tales of wonders and woe - UWOL #21
 

I can't imagine what the difference would be! In checking the settings on the Pro account I didn't see any way to change it.

If reuploading doesn't work, Geir, try rendering it again using the compression guidelines Mike Sims posted from the Vimeo site: Compression guidelines on Vimeo. The only thing I can see that might cause aspect problems would be the square pixel setting. But why your video looks fine on your Plus player and not Pro is beyond me.