Marshall V-LCD70P-HDMI-SB vs Ikan V5600
 

A quick poll:

Price aside, which of the 2 monitors in question is better to use with EX1 (unfortunately have no opportunity to check them both)?

- the Marshall is only 800x480, but has peaking and false color functions
- the Ikan is 1024x600, which together with its even smaller size (5.6" vs. 7") gives a better "dpi" factor...

Both can be configured with the Sony BP-U battery plate, or be fed from external battery (both have regulated inputs - very important, with today's batteries capable of 20V when fully charged).

Comments welcome!

PS. Please narrow your opinions/recommendations to the 5-7" size monitors; as far as larger screens are concerned, there is probably nothing to beat the price/performance ratio of the SmallHD and Manhattan offerings!

Did you get any further in your search Piotr? I too am on the lookout for a monitor of that size, I'm looking for an HDMI one though so that I can use it with my EX1 (via component) and my 5dmkII.

I really like the look of the newer Marshall 6.5" monitor, but I'm concerned that it's 4:3 aspect will make the 16:9 output from the EX1 look not much larger than the built in LCD.

After trying the DP1 and not being very happy with it I'm keen to make the right decision this time.

Piotr and Paul I am in the same boat and need to purchase a field monitor in the next week.

The Marshall V-LCD70P-HDMI, V-LCD70P-HDA, V-LCD70P-3GSDI are the ones in my sights. The reason for this is the peaking function they all offer. I shoot with the EX1 and Nano, and also have a PMW-350 on pre-order, and will be getting a Canon 7d in the next month for a few other jobs.

The problem I am dealing with is when I use the EX1 with out the Nano which won't be often there is no HDMI output. But the Canon 7d and the PMW-350 both have HDMI.

I'm in the same also. I've a ex1 but my first needs is for my 5dmII. The Marshall have a problem with false colors via hdmi. Doesn't show red as overexposed. Martin from Marshall said me that are working in a fix for this and it will be avalible soon. I need it for the 5dmII. Trough components or hdsdi don't have this problem (no problems for the ex1). I'm waiting because I prefer the features of this monitor vs other with more resolution.

Carlos,

Did he say whether the fix can be applied by the user, or does the monitor go back to the factory servicing?

Good question Piotr,

If we can update the monitor then it is a go if not I with you and have to wait for the fix. I will also contact Marshall.

Piotr are you not happy with your Manhattan HD monitor?

I asked this and they said that don't guarantee that it will be a user upgradable firmware. I'm from Spain. Too far to send the monitor and he advised me that is better wait for the fix.
I hope it will be done soon.
Contact Marshall, are a very good people with a great support (another thing I like)

I am looking at the HD-SDI version since this does not have the false color problem and I am being told a better signal. Can anyone confirm that the HD-SDI signal is higher quality then the HDMI?

HDMI and HD-SDI are the same quality (effectively they are the same other than the HDMI is the so called prosumer version with much more expensive cabling.

I'm after a field monitor that outputs true 1080p with both HD-SDI and HDMI. Ceen looking at the SWIT S-1080HU HD-SDI TFT Monitor. This version allows you to use the Sony BP-U30/60 Batteries.

Interesting Paul Abel Cine Tech told me the signal from the HD-SDI was superior. Also the Marshal will let you use the Sony BP-U30/60 Batteries.

As I said above the peaking puts the monitor at the top of my list.

I will decide in the next 24 hrs.

I just ordered the Marshall V-LCD70P-3GSDI-SB 7" LCD Field Monitor that takes the Sony BP-U30 or 60 batteries.

HD-SDI and HDMI have the same high-quality uncompressed signal. However, HDMI doesn’t support timecode, whereas HD-SDI does. Furthermore, the SD-HDI cable is more durable and has the ability to lock apposed to HDMI. What more, HD-SDI can be used up to 150 meters while HDMI is limited to a mere 25 meters (greater distances can be obtained by using repeaters though). The last difference is the cost. HDMI is far more expensive then HD-SDI. Hope that clarifies the difference.

Thanks Paul,

Interesting I am being told different but either way I am using the HD-SDI.

The monitor arrived yesterday and had its first test in studio. So far I am very impressed with the calibrating, and most of all the peaking runs hand in hand with the peaking on the EX1 which I am sure it will also do with the new PMW-350.

As I learn more I will post my findings.

Now to find the best solution for mounting with my different setups.

I prefer HD-SDI simply because the cable is cheaper and lighter along with the biggest boon that the connectors are lockable.

Glad you got your monitor sorted.

Agree Paul I like the secure connection with the SDI cable also the time code is needed for most of my shoots.

Now to figure out the best mounting while keeping it light. I have my wireless receivers on the hot shoe and am looking at this 16x9 Inc. :: J-Clamp since I try not to use rails.

That looks pretty neat Paul. I am looking at mounting options for a monitor, nanoFLASH, Shotgun, Wireless and cam light.

I already have the J-Rod Super Strong Twin Mount on my EX-3 leaving two hot shoes free. I like to leave the front for an onboard light when needed. I have the nanoFLASH mounted on the back shoe. However that leaves me with no where for a monitor. But that J-Clamp could solve the problem. Thanks for the link.

Glad I could help Paul,

I have been looking today while waiting on clips rendering to a client. I have Olof's new EX1 bottom support for the camera and mount the Nano off the back or to the side. Great piece of gear.

Tried the Hot shoe for the monitor with the Sony battery and it is too heavy. Hate to have it fall. So I will keep using the hot shoe for a double wireless receiver setup i put together that works well.

The J-Clamp will solve the Monitor mounting and I like how secure it looks. I will use their arm since the Ikan 6" is backordered everywhere for now.

Will let you know how it goes since I will place the order today.

OK guys - have my Marshall now, and am delighted!

- weight ans size perfect (even for hand-held/shoulder mount)
- resolution just OK
- user-assignable function keys with False Colors, Peaking, Underscan and Pixel-to-Pixel make it a really Pro tool!
- and the added benefit: when not using my PAG brick, I can feed it from my BP-U30 battery that was gathering dust so far; with only 12 W of the Marshall power requirements, the little battery has enough juice to power it for a couple of hours.

BTW Still keeping my largish Manhattan 109A with 1366x768 resolution for those occasions when size doesn't (or DOES ?) matter, i.e. on the tripod with Letus, etc. But frankly, I think now that all this "true HD" for a field monitor is just a hype (including DP1). Of course, 800x480 in a 11" factor would be too low, though ! But for a 7", it's just enough.

PS Information from Robert Foster of Marshall: the HDMI flaw in False Color mode can be fixed by your local Marshall dealer (also in EU).

Hi Piotr,

Glad you got your monitor sorted. If you don't mind me asking, how are you mounting it on the camera for hand-held work?

Not at all, Paul. Here are 2 pics of my Redrock shoulder mount rig. Please note the huge counterbalance (the PAG battery - 2kgs); also, when needed, I can still use the extended functionality of my EX1's own LCD thanks to the Hoodman loupe.

Thanks for the speedy reply! WOW! That’s a neat rig you have there! Thanks for sharing! Looks heavy, but that's not a bad thing for a shoulder rig,

It IS heavy, Paul - but as you say, it's not bad for a shoulder-mounted rig. And it's now perfectly balanced, too!

When I need to go lighter, I just take off the mate box and the battery/counterweight; it's really lightweight then.

Paul I received my J-Clamp and it works great on the EX handle. The 8" arm give me loads of options on where to mount the monitor for viewing/balance.

Yesterday I used the monitor for the first time on a 5 hrs flight. I powered with the Sony BP-U60 in cold temps 35F with up to 110 kts of wind 1' from the monitor and it ran well. The battery was still 1/2 full when we landed.

The monitor did have one problem. About 4 hrs in it starting giving a little flash every once in a while. We were shooting in low light at that time and it was cold. But the flash was not as bright as a still camera flash but similar with about 1/5 the intensity. I will run the monitor for hours today while I edit in my office and see if something similar happens. Just to check since it has to work again tomorrow in a studio. More on this as I learn what is happening.

Paul (Cronin) - it sounds like you're happy with your Marshall purchase. I'm thinking about a monitor purchase for my EX1 and 7D and Marshall's capabilities seem to be the right thing for the 7D since it lacks peaking and exposure support in-camera...

Questions given your experience:

1) Your post mentioned you purchased the LCD70P for your EX1 - one of the biggest concerns I have about the Marshalls is the relatively low resolution-per-dollar compared to their competitors. Have you found that the non-HD resolution of the 70P is a hindrance at all for you with the EX1's 1080p signal, or is the peaking and exposure capability enough to make up for that shortcoming? My belief is that the "full HD" capability on other monitors is kind of like the "more megapixels!" feature of consumer cameras - more isn't necessarily better for what you truly need to use it for, especially since you need more resolution for focusing, which the peaking feature solves anyway. For getting critical focus and properly using a follow-focus, I have to imagine peaking really helps there too, where more resolution won't necessarily make that easier. I usually focus on my EX1 with peaking and it's a lifesaver - I can't imagine using the camera well without it. Conversely, the 7D is really difficult to use without focus support as even with the Z-Finder on the back the low resolution of the LCD and no idea of sharpness bites me frequently - peaking would solve all of that...

2) do you use your Marshall with a 5D or 7D? Any thoughts there? I'm considering the HDMI version of the Marshall so I'll be able to support the 7D directly and the EX1 using the component inputs. Any suggestions about that approach versus purchasing an SDI-capable Marshall and finding another way to connect my 7D?

3) Do you find using the 70P outdoors to be a problem? The LCD651 is a good looking monitor and has the "reflective coating" thing to make using it outdoors without a sunshade possible. However, it's also quite a bit more pricey - but you also get more resolution in that package as well. Just wondering if you had any problems with the 70P in the outdoors.

4) Any regrets about the 70P at all that makes you wish you had considered any of the other options (SmallHD, Ikan, etc) instead?

Thanks for your help, Paul - I really think the Marshall is the right answer, but figured I'd get some more input from folks with direct experience before I lock that down...

Hi Ryan,

I have used the LCD70P SDI monitor now for three weeks with my EX1. I do like the monitor but you bring up some great questions that show you are doing your research.

1. As for the resolution it has not bothered me yet. Peaking is excellent and for me was the main feature for going with this monitor, it works very well. I set it to red.
As a mater of fact there have been a few times under tough conditions that the Marshall has peaked when the camera has not and the shot was fine. Also you can correct the Marshall with color bars which lets you know you are close. Right on I don't think so but close.

2. Good question and no have not used it with my Canon 7d since I purchased a HD-SDI connection. It would be very helpful to use with the 7d for timelaps, stills, and some short clips. I purchased the 7d after the monitor so Ugrr I should have went with the HDMI. The HDMI cable is a bit of a problem with some of my shoots since they can fall out and the HD-SDI is a positive connection. But I need to look into a cost effective way to go HD-SDI to HDMI. As for component I am not that interested. But then again I might not be using my EX1 much when my PMW-350 arrives in the next few days and that has HDMI.

3. Now here is the clincher. Yes on two shoots in high light it was not bright enough. So YES I would go for the LCD651 HDMI for this reason if it is really that much better. This would allow it to be used on PMW-350, Canon 7d, and in bright conditions while still having the Peaking and False Color which I also like in the studio for skin. Extra resolution is a bonus.

4. No regrets on brand since peaking is so important to me in the helicopter with fast moving objects. The others don't offer this but then again I have not tried them.

Interesting you asked these questions I have been thinking of selling mine and going for the LCD651 HDMI. Maybe I will rent one for a day and see if it is that much better.

Hope this helps and let me know if you have more questions or a cheap effective way to go HD-SDI to HDMI for the 7d?

Ryan did you decide which monitor you will purchase?

Hi Paul - sorry I haven't responded. I read your post and have it marked as something I needed follow up on, but I'm in the middle of development and pre-production for a shoot starting tomorrow, and I'm buried. :)

I haven't honestly made the exact decision but I'm leaning almost entirely towards a Marshall at this point. I believe the capabilities of the Marshall for peaking and exposure are critical to an effective camera support monitor, especially for the 7D. More resolution will help with effective focus on a camera, but at some point it becomes difficult to manage even with higher resolution. I've been discussing in another thread the SmallHD DP1 for the 7D and the poster has beautiful images coming from his 7D with great focus using the DP1. However, he admitted that focusing during a crane or jib move was difficult still - peaking would make that easier.

So I think my decision comes down between the 70P and the 651, and I'm thinking if I can afford the stretch, the latter is the way to go. It performs better in the outdoors and has more resolution. I'm guessing I go for the HDMI to more properly support the 7D - and I can't find a truly cheap SDI->HDMI converter - the ones I've seen start at $350.

1. I agree with you - peaking is the killer feature for the Marshall. If it didn't have it, I'd be looking at the SmallHD DP1.

2. I don't like the idea of the HDMI over SDI connection either, but there's just no inexpensive way to solve that problem, it doesn't appear. I'm not interested in component vs. SDI either, but there's no unit with SDI and HDMI that I can tell, so I don't get to have my cake and eat it too. I'll have to basically use the EX1 with component to the monitor, which isn't ideal, but it's the only way to have the monitor serve two masters. Perhaps if I win the lottery I'll buy one of each. Or just get a RED. :)

3. Phillip Bloom mentioned the LCD651 as the perfect 7D monitor because of it's brightness in outdoors. I have to admit not having to worry about covering it when you go outdoors would be a HUGE win. I'm with you - extra resolution is a bonus, the killer feature of this monitor is that TFT display. It's a serious contender for me. Additionally, another nice bonus is the ability to use these monitors as small desktop color-correction monitors. Not huge, and not ideal, but it can save you a bit of cash if you wanted that capability and you'd only need an output from the computer in the form of the Matrox mxo2 or AJA or something.

I'm in Austin and I've been looking for a place that rents the LCD651 or even the 70P. So far I haven't found anyone. I'd love to get my hands on one to try it out. Perhaps I'll post on Craigslist to see if I can find an individual that's willing to hang out so I can get my hands on it - that worked for me with the Sony EX1 as well... :)

Honestly the SmallHD would be my choice if peaking and exposure weren't important to me in the monitor. I'm not a huge fan of its ergonomics - the menus and controls look a little cumbersome to me - the "blue only" feature requires pulling down the reds and greens to zero and jacking up the blue and saving it as a preset. To me, that appears more of an afterthought than a true blue-only capability that you can quickly get to when you need it. Interestingly, although the other monitors state that resolution is one of the biggest differentiators between their monitors and other monitors offerings at the same price-point (i.e. Marshalls) - even without peaking the Marshall as pixel-for-pixel mode so you can do critical focus at the true resolution of the image coming in. The SmallHD doesn't appear to have that feature if I recall, so it's another pseudo-moot point on the resolution front...

So thanks for following up, Paul - the question is still out and I think this is the next big item on my purchase list early next year but I'm all but narrowed down to the LCD651 at this point. If there were any other monitors with peaking and exposure stuff, I'd be all over it.

Good deal Ryan,

I did not mean to pull you off paying work just checking back in. This has me thinking I am going to sell my 70P and go for the 651 in HDMI. I will check with the retailer and see if I can exchange but I bet it is too late.

Oh, it's not paying work, so fear not on that front. This one is a labor of love. With guns. And blood (via VFX - I don't have the time nor energy to clean up fake blood...). And a non-actor cast and a non-crew crew. I'm shooting a film for a film contest for my day job at a software company, and as usual I'm going well-overboard for what's called for - but that's the fun part, right? :)

Uh-oh - I hope my questions didn't shake the foundation of your earlier decision for the 70P - that's one reason I research to death - fear that I might regret the purchase after the fact. If you weren't so far away I'd suggest we get together and figure it out... :)

On another note, if I may, Paul.

Does your 70P also flashes full white (very bright) the moment it's switched on, before it displays the Marshall logo? Mine does, and I'm not quite sure it's normal...

Speaking about the 70P vs. the 651: although I agree the 70P isn't bright enough in high light, I suspect the 651 will also need a sun hood. I do have and use the Hoodman H700 sun hood with my 70P, and the brightness is just OK also outside.

Piotr yes my 70P does the same thing. Never noticed that before I guess I was busy.

Agree not matter which monitor I still use my H700 Hoodman but that is not enough with the 70P in a few of my flights where I am shooting backlit. Just can see it well enough to nail focus.

No worry Ryan I needed a monitor quick and researched but not the way i usually do. Yea Texas is a bit far.

Another issue:

The main reason I have chosen the 70P Marshall as my second monitor (in addition to the 10.9", 1366x768 Manhattan) have been its peaking and false color functions. However, I find the peaking to be a bit too "aggressive", i.e. it also displays on edges that aren't necessarily in perfect focus (it's enough for them to be contrasty enough).

The same can happen with the EX1 peaking when set to "high", but here you can decrease the sensitivity to medium or low, which gets rid of the problem and displays the peaking on truly sharp edges only.

Do you have the same problem, and if so - is there any way to alleviate it (I can't see any peaking "tuning" functions in the Marshall menu)?

Thanks for letting me know Paul! Don't know how I missed this at the time (mind you I wasn't getting any notifications for a while).

Piotr I will have to check on the Peaking on the monitor to see if it can be adjusted.

Paul, did you an the opportunity to check the peaking?

On another note:

- for monitor like the Marshall 70P (with only 250 nits brightness), is it better to use the glossy or matte screen protection?

The matte one is supposed to reduce reflections (welcome in sun light), while the glossy one is supposed to better preserve the contrast and colors... Difficult choice, so I'd do with some advise from those who actually tried both!

Piotr just checked it and you can only turn peaking on and off no fine tune adjustment like the EX line of cameras.

The 250 nits is the problem I have with the monitor. I think i will sell it and go for the 6.5 HDMI so I can use it on my EX350, and 7d. As for EX1 i would go component. Also i think it is 500 nits.

Hi Paul,

If I were you, I'd rather go for the SWIT S-1080FYU HD/SD-SDI/HDMI/YUV 8" TFT Monitor:

SWIT S-1080FY HD/SD-SDI/HDMI/YUV 8" TFT Monitor - Proactive

With peaking, waveform display, BP battery plate as well as XLR DC input, and 400 nits, it could really be worth selling your current Marshall! The 6.5" Marshall I somehow dismissed right away not only because of its higher price, but also due to the fact that, at its 4:3 aspect ratio, the higher resolution real estate is not being fully taken advantage of with 16:9 picture from the EX1. You however will be using your monitor with the 7d as well, so the last point doesn't apply.

I considered this one even before buying the Marshall, but it's too expensive for me at this moment...

Interesting monitor. I don't see peaking?

From the Proactive page I linked to (in the 'Description' tab - look for Focus Assist; BTW I just noticed it also has the meters display for SDI-embedded audio!):

Common Key monitor Features are :-

HD/SD-SDI Input x 2
HD/SD-SDI Output x 1
HDMI Input
YUV Input
Composite Input
Waveform Display
Focus Assist Function
SDI Embedded Audio Bar Display
Overscan and Underscan Function
Safety Marker
Flip image
16:9/4:3 Switchable
Blue Only
12V DC XLR Connection
Internal Colour bar
4 x Custom Pre Set Configuration Keys
Tally Lamp
Title Edit- Name the monitor ( Camera 1 etc)
Stereo Phono Analogue Audio Input
In-Built Speaker
Headphone Input (3.5mm Jack)

Waveform Display - The monitor has a Waveform display showing Luminance Levels (HD-SDI Only)

Focus Assist - Unique Focus Assist that displays a colour fringe around the subject when in focus. (HD-SDI Only)

Customise key edit of 4 main F1 Buttons. Selection can be: - Bar Display, Zoom, Blue Only, Title, Overscan/Underscan, Aspect Ratio, Flip, Colour bar, Zebra, Monochrome.

Multi-Function Menu - Quickly access and change the source inputs, Marker size, Contrast, Brightness, Hue, Saturation, Sharpness and Volume.



The Monitor is supplied in a stylish pre-moulded case with AC-DC 12V Adapter, Operation Manual, Screen Protector, Shoulder Strap, UK Mains cable, Sun Hood, Mounting Bracket, Phono Audio Cable, 1.5m BNC Cable

Thanks Piotr I missed the info above doing too many things today. Thanks I will look into this option.