Color Graded Monitor

[Charles Papert]

Sharing my experiences on this:

I've owned a Dreamcolor for a few years. As a studio monitor connected via DVI, it's a well-documented performer, with 30 bit performance. As a location monitor via HDMI, it's complicated. You need the right interface box to process the incoming signal to activate the Dreamcolor engine. There's a white paper on the HP site about this. The various boxes hover around the $500 mark. You can still work with either an HDMI source or SDI via HDMI converter if you have one, and the image quality is OK, but it's not taking advantage of the goodness of the Dreamcolor processing.

I will also add the following: I bought mine refurb from HP directly. It died after 15 months, 3 months out of warranty. HP was no help at all, they don't offer service for it. Nor would any third party service shop I contacted. I even tried to activate that one year extension on warranty through my credit card, which took a lot of paperwork but finally got rejected because they don't cover refurbs, even factory direct ones. The monitor still sits forlornly in my garage--I find it tough to accept that I have a big expensive brick on my hands, but I do. I recommend either purchasing a warranty extension, or not buying this monitor at all.

I now use a Flanders 24" monitor and am very happy with it. The features set and I/O is much better suited for location work. I considered the PVM 24" but I had heard from some DIT's that it is essentially "too good" with the blacks, it resolves more than most monitors and thus you can get fooled that something is in there that may not reproduce elsewhere.

As far as a grading monitor--if you are inclined, you can get a used broadcast HD CRT for a song!!

I can't quite see grading off a 7". It just seems like eyestrain in the making. Especially if you get into windows and keys and the like--just too hard to see small details.

[Josh Bass]

Which CRTs are you referring to? I remember back in the "old days" of the early/mid 2000s seeing 8 or 9 inch CRTs commonly used with F900s and such, but I will swear that last time (and it was fairly recently) that I searched for those on ebay, they were still going for $2000! That's one hell of a song. Like, a "November Rain" or something. I would imagine larger monitors would be even worse.

[Paul Cronin]

Charles are you using the Flanders 24" DVI, or SDI out of the edit machine?

Sorry to hear about your experience with HP I had similar experience with a laptop and stopped buying from them.

[Roger Pinto]

Sorry my bad :

- I produce documentary for Broadcasts
- I also hire equipment to Film crews & they do desire setup of Pro Grade & before I let out the equipment on rent i wish to set them straight right.
- I also run a edit studio where I need to get Best color grading monitor as I am investing into Da Vinci Resolve & Element from Tangent

As for 56WP TVlogic, i did try with Color Bars but the monitor does give me various color options in terms of temperatures which baffles me further. so needed help as to how & what to do to get right color thru my TVlogic atleast

[Charles Papert]

Paul:

I use the Flanders on location, as a production reference monitor. I have a JVC 17" HD CRT in my edit setup that I've had since around 2006. It serves its purpose. I used to lug it out to shoots, an exhausting proposition! I was going to retire the Dreamcolor to the edit room, but oh well. If anyone thinks they can do anything with it, it's yours for, say, $50 plus shipping.

[Paul Cronin]

Thanks Charles,

I will look into the Flanders for my edit station since my CC system needs upgrading.

[Charles Papert]

I should also mention the Sony PVM 2541, which is $500 more than the Flanders but it is an OLED, and has an amazing image. The blacks are to die for. In some ways they are too good--you may see values on that monitor that won't reproduce on most other monitors. It's sort of ahead of its time and that's why I didn't go that route at the moment.

Bruce also pointed out below the 21" version of the Flanders, which is their latest model and I've heard good things. Quite a bit cheaper than the 24" and may work just as well for many.

[Josh Bass]

Ok, Chaz, I'm gonna do it:

Anything in the uber low cost realm that you could come even close to recommending? talking flat screen here, as I'm sure that 17" CRT is a monster. But just in case, could you tell me the model of the CRT?

I'm not looking to offer myself as a pro colorist. This would be for personal short projects, maybe a public screening via projector things or HDTV at a fest, things like that. Maybe on those rare occasions I edit for pay, if I need to color correct something. But again, this is never (so far) broadcast. . .internal use for corporations or web stuff only.

Let me give an example: right now I have a Sony PVM14m2u. SD CRT with P22 phosphors. Recommended as pretty damn good, even for color correction, in SD. Used it for all my SD projects, seen 'em on TVs via DVD, seen em at fests, always looks pretty much like I graded it. This is what I'm after in HD land. So, any low-end recommendations?

[Roger Pinto]

How are these - ColorEdge CG276 | EIZO

Any experience with them

[Chris Medico]

Originally Posted by Roger Pinto

How are these - ColorEdge CG276 | EIZO

Any experience with them

This would make it a no go for me:

Wide Gamut Coverage (typical) Adobe RGB: 97%

It is a RGB monitor. In my opinion you should stick with a monitor that works in the colorspace of video when using it for video. Also having a monitor with video tools such as waveform and vectorscope built in are valuable for color correction.

[Roger Pinto]

Originally Posted by Chris Medico

This would make it a no go for me:

Wide Gamut Coverage (typical) Adobe RGB: 97%

It is a RGB monitor. In my opinion you should stick with a monitor that works in the colorspace of video when using it for video. Also having a monitor with video tools such as waveform and vectorscope built in are valuable for color correction.

Thats why I am puzzled ... what monitors do pro's use for Video Grading !

--- Its specs say :
Preset Modes Color Mode (Custom, Adobe RGB, sRGB, Rec709, EBU, SMPTE-C, DCI, Calibration)

Panel
Type IPS
Size 27" / 68 cm (684 mm diagonal)
Native Resolution DisplayPort, DVI: 2560 x 1440 (16:9 aspect ratio)
HDMI: 1920 x 1080 (16:9 aspect ratio)
Display Size (H x V) 596.7 x 335.6 mm
Pixel Pitch 0.2331 x 0.2331 mm
Grayscale Tones DisplayPort: 1024 tones (a palette of 65281 tones)
DVI, HDMI: 256 tones (a palette of 65281 tones)
Display Colors DisplayPort: 1.07 billion from a palette of 278 trillion
DVI, HDMI: 16.77 million from a palette of 278 trillion
Viewing Angles (H / V, typical) 178°, 178°
Brightness (typical) 350 cd/m2
Recommended Brightness for Calibration 120 cd/m2 or less
Contrast Ratio (typical) 1000:1
Response Time (typical) 6 ms (Gray-to-gray)
Wide Gamut Coverage (typical) Adobe RGB: 97%
Video Signals
Input Terminals DVI-D 24 pin, DisplayPort (with HDCP), HDMI (with HDCP)
Digital Scanning Frequency (H / V) DisplayPort, DVI: 26 - 89 kHz, 23.75 - 63 Hz (VGA Text: 69 - 71 Hz)

HDMI: 15 - 68 kHz, 23.75 - 61 Hz

[Chris Medico]

Go with one of the monitors mentioned above such as the Flanders or the Sony.

[Jacques Mersereau]

We have both the 17" and 24" flanders, the 24" JVC and a 32" Ikegami (all HDSDI and DVI too).
I think the flanders is the best over all package (scopes and accurate image) for the money.
I have seen the Sony OLEDs and they look fab, but like Mr Papert said,
you have to get used to it and learn what it shows might not be what you see
anywhere else.

From all I've read when looking at the HP Dreamcolor, many ship unusable and they seem
to have a very short lifespan. Accuracy is great, but if it is broken and/or can't be fixed,
who cares?

As always, YMMV.

[Roger Pinto]

Originally Posted by Chris Medico

Go with one of the monitors mentioned above such as the Flanders or the Sony.

I am bit nerved here as neither Flendar or sony available here. Eizo seems ready available ... Why should i use them : Pardon my ignorance on the subject ... Pl enlighten. Tx

[Chris Medico]

Originally Posted by Roger Pinto

I am bit nerved here as neither Flendar or sony available here. Eizo seems ready available ... Why should i use them : Pardon my ignorance on the subject ... Pl enlighten. Tx

It does complicate things if the right tools are not available to you in your area. If Eizo is what is available to you then the choice becomes easier.

At a minimum I want a monitor with waveform and vectorscope (neither of these are on the Eizo). A 10bit display panel is a priority if it doesn't put the price out of reach (Eizo is OK here).

I also recommend using HD-SDI as your input with a proper HD-SDI output card in your computer (Not on the Eizo).

Why I don't consider HDMI professional:

HDMI is on its way to be the standard in short distance video transmission in the consumer segment and in computer displays. HDMI also comes with a lot of baggage not needed for the application of color correction such as DHCP and various colorspace modes such as RGB/YUV. All of this extra stuff can lead to problems in the signal chain between the media in the computer and the monitor (as users with the HP monitors are seeing). I'm also not a fan of using a computer's video card to give me a honest representation of what I'm looking at. Perfectly fine for editing. Not OK for color correction/finishing in my opinion. Far too many ways that image can get skewed in the software on the computer. I want a dedicated video output module from a vendor that does professional video such as AJA or BlackMagic. I want that signal to be transmitted in a professional broadcast accepted format (HD-SDI).

These are things that are a priority for me and how I've chosen to do business. This is this is the basis of why I recommend using a true broadcast monitor. There are many other and perfectly valid thoughts and opinions on the subject. This is just how I do it.