Think I found a great cheap 800x480 7" tft pal/ntsc deal: mm400
 

After a whole lot of searching for a screen for our camera that we could use to flip our image from the adapter AND use for focussing, I think I found it...

I spent a lot of time looking around in the portable DVD player department and on ebay etc... But we have an extremely limited budget (like... a few hundred euros) and we have to be sure that when we spend any money, we better get something that works exactly the way it should work.

So, the most reliable and interesting deal I've found so far seems to be this:
http://www.cartft.com/catalog/il/527

Costs 229EUR new, does 800x480 and seems to have all the basic features we need.

This is the price of a new unit, not an ebay thing, which is pretty cool I think because we'd rather go for something new as it's more reliable.


Only questions floating around in my mind now are: Will our widescreen PAL signal look good? Will it be undistorted?

What do you guys think?

you can find many screens like that, they are almost all the same price and probably made by same manufacturer (liliput ?)
this one seems to have no plug , just cables, so it could be an annoyance.

Thanks for the info, if anyone has anything else to add?

BTW this store is located in Germany, which is a huge plus for me because all Lilliput and other similar screen sellers I've found were either U.S. or Hong Kong or something like that. As I'm from Belgium, this should be the most low-cost shipping and there's no extra tax to be paid, plus warranty stuff is more reliable.

I was looking for the same kind of thing.

This unit uses a Hitachi panel of only 7" but with a good resolution of 800x480 and the proposed price is very good (for Europe...). It has a video input (but no sound) and can be used as a VGA/SVGA monitor.

The main drawback is that this unit is not supllied with a battery pack (it's supposed to be powered by the 12V of a car, or on the 230V with the supplied adaptator).

The only alternative I've found (but for quite the double price...) are the Toshiba's portable DVD players SD-P2800 and SD-P30DT: they use a 8" screen of 800x480 too and have an audio/video input (and, sure, they are sold with their battery pack).
But they are 2 times bigger than the mentioned LCD monitor...

The other alternatives that I've found at a reasonnable price have, or no battery option, or no video input, and have generally a LCD with a lower resolution (360x234 or 480x240 or 480x272...).

Reese, if you decide to by the MM400 unit, give us a feedback about it.

Have a look to this thread too: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=85271 where Wolfgang Winne has build its monitor with the same kind of product than the MM400 (here the LCD that Wolfgang has bought: http://babelfish.altavista.com/babel...2b706085777622 at 169 Euros --without any 230V adaptator--).

Ok, I'm going for the MM400, I'll definitely do an extensive review of it here, thx for the feedback guys.

Hey Reese,

Looking for something similar myself, but I'll probably go for the xenarc at the same site, because it has proven quality (relatively for its price of course):

http://www.cartft.com/catalog/il/106

Either way, I was looking at this battery (normally used for surveillance cameras) and thought you might also look at it. It is sold here in holland so that's pretty close to you. If you can mount this up somehow you'll be good all day without charging, because it is 4800mah. So assuming these screens need 8W at 12v, it's 0,67A, so that would be 7,2 hours.
It's a pretty big battery, coincidently almost exactly the size of the monitors. But you might be able to mount it somewhere. Don't know how heavy.

http://www.wilnic.nl/product_info.ph...-camera-4800ma

See ya,

Steven

I found another battery elsewhere (can't remember where) in the shape of a 2 inch square stack about the length of a soda can. 6000mAh, really great discharge, and easy to charge again. It was a bit more expensive though. Velcros right to the arm of my tripod.

lots of battery on www.batteryspace.com

Hah! What do you know. That's where I got it. Another great source is www.all-battery.com

Hi, Since reading this thread i've been digging deeper into this subject, especially over at mp3car.com which has a forum with a lot of stuff about cheap small lcds, because they put 'em in their cars over there to use as carputers.
Anyway, turns out that mm400 isn't half bad at all. In the sub €500 range the xenarc is supposedly best, followed shortly by the mm400 (which is the same as the linitx/tview screen). Both of them should be much better than the lilliputs. The reason why they think the xenarc is better is because it has a bit better brightness (for viewing while exposed to sunlight). However, they always use those things with touchscreens, which is a sort of overlay that in the case of the mm400 dims and blurs the displays some. So if you buy it without touchscreen, it should be similar to the xenarc. Also, the xenarc is reported to have a nasty uncorrectable white balance, which makes everything yellowish. So with that mm400 you're getting a more color-neutral, just as sharp and bright and little bit cheaper display than the xenarc, if you believe these sources! Might even get one myself now :)
But hoping to hear your review as soon as yours arrives, especially in respect to our kind of workflow (ie filmmaking).

Cheers, Steven

Ok, an update about this monitor (mm400/linitx/tview):
I received it yesterday from cartft.com, fast shipping, all accessories included, no problems. It was a bit of a disappointment to find out it has NO flipping function, even though it has a button on the remote that says 'mirror', it doesn't work. Also got this confirmed from the manufacturer.
Anyway, this is not an enormous problem for me, since I'll make something to hold it upside down (I don't really trust the screwhole at the bottom of the monitor for use in the field anyway).
Also the picture quality seems very good, and there are much more image controls than I thought for this price. Aside from brightness, contrast, color, hue and phase there is also a color temp control for R, G and B separately. So as soon as I have my camera, I should be able to calibrate it from a good monitor. So more workflow details when I have my full setup.

Insignia™ 8" 16:9 Widescreen LCD Screen Portable DVD Player
 

I found this DVD palyer in BestBuy for only $ 99.99.

Insignia™ 8" 16:9 Widescreen LCD Screen Portable DVD Player
Model: NS-8PDVD
Take this portable DVD player on a trip with you to inject some fun into the voyage. The 2 headphone jacks allow more than 1 person to listen simultaneously.
8" widescreen LCD display with high-resolution and high brightness



16:9 aspect ratiow
Specialized DVD controls include previous, next, up, down, left, right, menu, wide and play/pause
1-2/5" thin for maximum portability
Adjustable volume and brightness controls for a customized viewing experience

2 built-in stereo speakers
Inputs: composite A/V
Outputs: 2 headphone, composite A/V
NiMH rechargeable battery (included) for up to 3 hours of playback time
A/V cable, car power adapter, AC/DC adapter and remote included

I am thinking to buy this for my DOF project to use for image flipping. Any one has experience with this LCD player. Can I use to INPUT composit A/V?

Question is how to mount on Tripod?

Thanks

Jay

I recently ordered my MM400, and I'm looking for a battery!
Has anyone used the battery Steven Fokkinga mentioned?
http://www.wilnic.nl/product_info.ph...-camera-4800ma

Thx!

I haven't yet, first want to see what more is out there. I did get some more info on this battery though, it's li-ion and it weighs only 175g...
Got my A1 today so you'll soon here more about this stuff! Whohoo!

Ok, so I tested it today, doesn't work well yet. I have linked the A1 via component to the mayflash, and then from the mayflash via vga to the mm400 tft. I does show something, but it the image is 'double', i.e. there are two images overlayed over each other slightly (1 cm) shifted from each other. Besides that it looks very sharp (much sharper than via composite) and I don't see grain, but it's hard to see with the image shift.
Anyone has an idea what might cause this/how to solve this?

Problem with these car dvd players or portable dvd players, even the 'high resolution' ones is that the resolution often is NOT high and there are actually only 200-something vertical lines. Keep this in mind because even when you do have a high resolution screen (like 800x480) you'll still have to pay close attention to do really proper focus pulling, it's not very hard but it's not super-easy either. So a portable DVD player really isn't a safe bet.


BTW guys I've been testing the mm400 for a small week now and it's been great thus far. Colors are good, not entirely accurate but that was to be expected, sharpness is quite excellent although maybe I expected it to be just a tiny bit easier for focussing still, but it gets the job done. Only remark I can give is that the screen has a very strange but very subtle texture over it when turned on, first I thought it was my adapter's focussing screen that wasn't vibrating but then I noticed tha it's the screen itself. It's not at all a problem though because it's really subtle, it's only a bit weird and can be alerting if you work with an adapter.

I'd definitely recommend it.


And for your battery needs, well I don't know but I think I'm gonna try this: http://www.optcorp.com/product.aspx?pid=2360

Has cigarette lighter sockets, seems very handy! What do you guys think of it?

I recently bought this lcd screen, really happy with it!
Still waiting for my Mayflash, so I'm now using the RCA inputs (the mm400 has 2 of them, it even has built-in speakers!) and for focusing with my single chip Sony it works fine! (off course this isn't HDV).

I'm using two 6v batteries which I found, normally I can use the MM400 about 6 hours with these. And I have 5 pairs of them!

Very happy with it, glad I didn't go for the Xenarc!

Hi Piet, I hope it works for you, I sent it back because it didn't work with the mayflash. Let us know if yours does work.

Steven

Is the lamp detachable? :)
Anyway it looks pretty big, but I don't know what you want to do with it (where you mount it). Do you know the weight and dimensions?
Take into account that you need a converter for the 110v power inlet.
Also, the 12V is coming out of cigarette lighter ports, so you also need something to plug your monitor in.
It's pretty cheap for 7Ah though!

Steven

Has anyone else use the mm400 with the mayflash?

Our cameraman would just carry this in his backpack.

I have a cigarette lighter adapter for my screen, so that should work, right?

And I may have found a European version of the power tank for 220v power inlets.

Do you have a link?

Mounting that sort of stuff always takes some DIY experimenting with making your own fittings etc...

BUT I must stress that I would definitely NOT trust this dvd player. It says 'high resolution' but I'm afraid it will be something along the lines of 800x243, which is not enough for proper focusing, it's just not sharp and detailed enough to know for sure whether your image is in focus.

Let me put it this way: I have the MM400 screen which is 800x480 and it allows me to do decent focus pulling. However, even with this resolution it does demand close attention, it works great and I'd recommend the screen to anyone who's looking for an SD focusing/image flipping* solution but it still doesn't make sharp focus super-easy.



(*if you don't mind flipping the image by mounting the screen upside down, it's what I do and I'm experiencing no downsides from this thus far)



Oh and Steven: I used to have a link to a store in Belgium that sells the European version but it doesn't work anymore after the site redesign, a quick search through their new catalogue didn't turn up anything either. The site is http://www.grootven.be (it's in dutch).

You mean this one?
http://www.grootven.be/productdetails.asp?PID=1536

Bit heavy and expensive for my taste, though

Does anybody know how to connect a camcorder through VGA to the MM400? Cause people say it causes problems with the mayflash!
I recently bought the MM400 but haven't ordered the mayflash yet. I don't understand why it doesn't work, it works the same way as the Xenarc?

Need advice!

Thx,

Piet

Can anyone tell me where I could buy an s-video to component cable??
(I live in Belgium)

Thx,

Piet

I don't think these exist, but why would you want one, if I may ask? S-video and component live in different colorspaces and different formats, so it's not as simple as just different connectors.
About your other question, as far as I know, I was the only one who tried the mayflash and the mm400, in combination with the component output of the canon XH-A1. It did not work (syncing problems I guess), so I sent the monitor back. Now I'm going to try a xenarc.

But with which cable do you connect your camcorder to the mayflash?
Don't you connect your camcorder trough s-video and then to component in the mayflash?

Hi Piet,

If you would use the s-video output of your camcorder you wouldn't even need the mayflash. What camcorder do you use?
I suggest you take a look at the following articles. I'm guessing you have some of the terms confused.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Component_video
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Composite_video
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-video
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vga

If I won't need the mayflash, but just buy a cable s-video - VGA. Will that work on a regular monitor? (like my CRT or my mm400)

Piet, what camera do you have? If you have an SD camera, you will be fine using the composite output (the mm400 had a composite input).

I'll be using the FX1 (so HDV)!!

Ok, then I think the mm400 will not work for you. Did you get the mayflash already? If you'd try it we would have a second opinion.

Piet, if you're using the FX-1, you want to use the red, blue and green colored cable that came with it to plug into the mayflash. It is the component cable, and there is a plug on the FX-1 for it where all the other connectors are for video out. From the mayflash, provided you hook up from component output, you can go to any CRT, LCD or TFT monitor.

It's getting real confused in here :)

I borrow the FX1 for my short films, so I've never seen that cable. And the component output is s-video. So I need a cable that starts in s-video and on the end the three colors RCA jacks. Ok, where can I buy this cable?

Thanks! Sry for all the questions :)

You got some things confused. S-video is NOT the same as component. Basically, for HDV cameras, its like this:

- composite: analog SD signal;
- S-video: analog SD signal, but bit cleaner than composite because of seperation of signals;
- component: analog HD signal. If you want to focus with HD, you will need at least this output;
- HDMI/SDI: digital HD signal

You cannot have a cable that goes from s-video to component, because they're different formats (SD vs HD) and different colorspaces.

Please look at the wikipedia-links in my previous post, it will get things a lot clearer!

I got the FX1 and the mayflash.
Does somebody knows what is the minimum spec. for a LCD screen to work with ?
I tried with a 17" LCD Dell for computer (max 1280x1024) but it does not work.
would a 1600 x 1200 be ok , or do i need a 1920x1080 screen.
(i got 3 dell 24" but they already get component input, so the mayflash is not needed ... and the screen is far too big for mobile use).

Thanks a lot!!
I finally seem to get it!
I went to a local video store (not very professional) and the guy couldn't help me find that kind of cable. Does anyone can give me a link or something, I couldn't even find it googeling it. (maybe used wrong names or something like that)

Thx, (again)
Piet

I thought I might chime in here. Piet, if you are speaking of the cable coming from your new monitor, I believe it is the same as a Keyboard or mouse cable. I cannot remember which one (I am speaking of the plug). Anyway, if you can solder. You can take one of these from a Keyboard (or mouse), and cut it into, (after you have made sure it will plug in). Then you can solder your video, audio, and power connectors to your camera and battery. Only problem here, is you will have to use a multi-meter to test for which one is power wire and ground. Once you find that, the rest you can experiment, but you must have power and ground right first!

Second Option. Go to LCD4video.com , they have the cord that plugs into this type of fitting and sell if seperately very cheap. I bought one of their 7" screens for my XL2 and it came with this cord. The plug fit perfectly, and the power, video, audio are clearly marked. The other ends of each wire had the wrong fittings on them. They were female instead of male so I cut them off and soldered the fittings on them I wanted. But, they were labeled. As for a battery, I bought mine from batteryspace.com, part number is PL-0550100-3SWR $46.95 and it is prewired with undercharge or overcharge protection. It is a 2500MAH. This is a Polymer Li-ion battery, so it is very light and small. It easily velcros to the camera and it lasts over 2.5 hours straight run time on a shoot. The charger is model CH-LI11148-3. It is 26.95. Shipping and all to me was 81.62 dollars and I am thrilled with the battery. I soldered the same type of connector as the power cord from the monitor has, on the charger. This way I just plug the charger right into the battery, when the light is green, I unplug it and plug it back into my monitor, velcro it, and away I go. I hope this helps. J