Selling finished Wedding Videos to Pros
 

I've been getting a bunch of emails lately about selling a completed wedding videos. It is something we have been considering, and with the recent pile of emails about this, I thought I would post a couple questions here.

I'm curious who out there is already doing this, what their feedback is, and what the going rate is for a completed video.

I just got an email from Luis here on Dvinfo, but unfortunately the eail he provided doesn't seem to work so I thought I would post my comments publicly instead.

Patrick

I have never publically sold a wedding video, but as someone at the start of his wedding videography career I can say that I am interested in the option to see what other's are doing (outside of 4 minute cliips posted here). I would personally pay up to $50 for one.

That is assuming that the video is strictly what the client would receive. If we are talking a training video, or video with commentary by the videomaker, then I would pay about $100.

Jeff and Andee Wright of blueskiescinema.com sells their videos for $150-$200 each. They also have a 2 day hands-on workshop teaching other videographers their techniques for $995 per person. They can handle up to 9 people per session. They have been cutting back on weddings and have been focusing more on teaching other videographers their techniques. For weddings, he charges a MINUMUM of $10K.

That's it. I'm raising my prices.

Music!
 

Heck if I had to license all that music I would have to charge that much as well!

Patrick, i know you're not stupid, but make sure you put a big watermark logo over the whole thing. there are people out there waiting to use other's stuff to help sell their own.
it's happened to me with in the past where I found my personally-made stuff on sale on ebay, and it was a very unpleasant feeling. (evidently, a copyright symbol wasn't good enough!)

Hi Patrick,

We sell 8 DVDs. Many of them are completed works with audio commentary. 3 DVDs are actually full fledged "training DVDs". Our latest DVD is Real Weddings Volume 1. It is a completed wedding DVD, just as the B&G received it, but with bonus features.

You can listen to the DVD to see exactly what the Bride received, or you listen to an audio commentary track where Trisha and I discuss the cameras, lenses, lights, support devices, camera locations, shooting assignments, microphone equipment and techniques, etc... Or you can listen to the audio commentary that contains our philosophy and the techniques we used while editing the wedding, including the names of the songs we used. It's priced at $125.

We recorded our commentary tracks the first week of August. Little did we know that the Highlight from this wedding was going to win a Gold CEA at WEVA, so needless to say, we show some good stuff.

You can see a preview of the DVD here.
http://tulsaweddingvideos.com/videographers.shtml

Hi Patrick,

Three items come to mind:

1. Ensure your client contract clearly spells out the T&Cs associated with video ownership and usage.

2. Verbally review this clause with the prospective client before signing the contract - better yet, have them initial the paragraph during signing.

3. For selected video, send written confirmation to each client whose video will be used - better yet, give each of them a completed copy of the video.

Since I've never anticipated selling videos, my contract wording would be insufficient for your contract: "xxx reserves the right to use any and all of the raw footage acquired for the final video production for its promotional purposes and other purposes." Typically the wording would include specific conditions such as training, although perhaps you may have other purposes such as entertainment, etc.

The bottom line is, you don't want to surprise your valued clients, who trust you to maintain an appropriate balance of confidentiality in a business environment. In addition to Mark and Trish's excellent videos, some top names that come to mind for training videos include: Randy Stubbs, Steve & Laura Moses, David Robin, John Cooksey, Chris Watson, Ken Ehrhart, and others...

Good luck, Michael

People post wedding clips and sell videos of weddings...Hmmm...do the bride and groom know of this? I wouldn't be crazy about seeing MY wedding plastered all over the net.

Also, it seems too convenient to claim $10,000 per wedding and at the same time offer wedding coverage seminars. "You too can earn $10,000 per weekend!!!"

If I was paying 10k for a wedding, I'd expect a F-900, not a pd150 with ipod headphones.

I would love to see a how to wedding video done by Patrick. How to use the steadicam and behind the scenes of a wedding day. Basically, a how to video a wedding is what I would love to see from start to finish.... Booking, shooting, editing and final products..

$150-200 is a fair price for a good how to video. I would like to see high end videos and Patrick seems to me to be the right person I want to see a how to video from..

Walter

I'd do it if it was me. People are gonna plunder your ideas/techniques anyhow. Might as well get compensated for it.

You'd expect someone to hand over their trade secrets in an edited film to you so you can emulate it and only pay them a measly $50??????

Not if they don't see a full-length film. They can plunder all they like with trailers, but the true test of a great wedding videographer is to put together a complete film with proper flow from start to end.

I agree.

There seems to be a lot high dollar pricing with prosumer gear.

Are you guys solely equating higher pricing with better equipment? What about skill, knowledge, experience, creativity, originality and overall non-suckageness? Doesn't that also ascend pricing?

I'm not sure how you guys operate but to me, charging $10k does not mean earning $10k.

Equipment means almost nothing.....I saw a video shot by Jason Magbanua on a camera phone that was better than many I've seen shot in HDV. It's all about the skill with the tools. You might have a great hammer but it's worthless if you are only capable of smashing your fingers with it.

Cheers,
Scott

I think if you're going to pay THAT much for a single day shoot, you deserve true pro equipment, and at the least a dedicated sound man!

As I see it, there should be a correlation between pricing and gear. There's some guy here, forgot his name, but he does nice work and charges a few grand. High end. But they've got a full time steadicam operator! and a *real* steadicam not some crap DIY. And I think their crew is using xlh1's. You should get what you pay for.

Ridiculous statement. Of course equipment matters. There's a reason Hollywood doesn't shoot in VHS-c.

Low end gear will ALWAYS be more limiting than high end gear with all else being equal.

Can a skilled operator get nice footage with a DVX100? Sure. Give the same guy a Varicam and see what looks better.

Ridiculous? Yes, I over exaggerated somewhat to make a point.....doesn't change the fact that a great story shot on a consumer cam will be better than the many of the typical blockbusters that keep coming out with all their CG and uninteresting plot lines and forgettable characters...My assertion stands...I would rather view the work of someone talented using a camera phone than many of the no talents that are using HDV cams...

Yes a person with talent can produce great stuff with great gear. But they aren't dependant on it.

"Limits" as you put it are nothing more than opportunities for creative solutions.

You get my point now?

No. I don't actually.

As I see it, the quality of a given production is a function of the quality of the talent and the quality of the gear. They are both limiting factors.

And unless you've got a Jessica Alba home porno reel on you camera phone, I won't be interested.

I often see this question falsely framed, that talent and equipment are some kind of "either/or" proposition. Sorry. I just don't buy it.

I've also observed a correlation between gear and talent. I've yet to see a hack on an Arriflex. But seen plenty with TRV900's. Good people invariably have good equipment.

Patrick,
I purchased a complete wedding video from a very talented wedding studio. They start around $4,000 I believe, you actually know the studio though I won't mention their name here. (You can ask me by email for their name). I personally asked the studio if I could purchase their complete wedding video and they said absolutely. I wanted to purchase it to see how they actually edited their completed wedding video. Secondly to see how it is they could actually charge so much money to start with. I only ended up paying $60 for it. That was a steal. I watched it two times, once completely through, and the second time certain parts. It was beneficial for me to do that. Was it so I can copy their style? No. I have my on style that I'm not interested in changing. Was it so I can pick up one thing to improve on? Yes. I wanted to see where I could challenge myself to get better. The big thing is in learning audio better. They're way ahead of me here cause they have a audio guy that comes to the job, specifically for audio. Imagine the relief any of us would have if we only had to worry about video and not audio. They also did a very good job telling the couple wedding story.

If you were selling to the mass I believe a going rate to the mass is between $100 and $150 with a commentary track. Glen has a complete one with audio track and subtitles at $100. If only a complete video and no commentary track, than maybe a lil cheaper.

I agree as well.

There is now reason why good work can't be done on a inexpensive equipment, but I think you owe it to a customer to use the best equipment you can if you are charging way above the industry standard.

And a 1/3" chip camera(s) is not that kind of equipment.

There is a reason why broadcasters use $100,000 lenses, they want a great image & their advertisers expect a lot for what they are paying for.

First thing's first, like Monday mentioned above, I don't watch other people's work so I can emulate it. The idea of watching a finished wedding video isn't so you can copy the entire thing. I like to watch video's of other vidoegraphers to see what everyone else is doing so I can see where I can get better. Of course, I need to get better everywhere, but it helps me prioritize. This video works because of the editing - I should work on editing first... and so on.

I dunno. I think $50 is fair when you would simply be making a duplication of an already completed disc. If a client wants an extra DVD copy from me it's $20, and the final cost is about $3. I would say somewhere in that range isn't an entire rip off considering that the production is already done.

Now if there's a commentary track, behind the scenes footage, etc., that's different because it isn't a matter of running off a DVD, it's a matter of creating a whole new one. I say I would probably pay $100 but a product like that would be worth anywhere from $100-200. It's just that in my experience, I probably not pay $200. That's just me.

I'm just giving Patrick as much information as I can to go off of. We're all the audience, right? If everyone else says they'll pay more than obviously prices will be adjusted and I'll be S.O.L. which is fine.

Sorry if I devalued the entire industry with my original post.

Hi Brian,

I understand what you are saying, and if you were hiring a wedding videographer for $10k, you are going to want a certain level of gear, but what you need to consider is that most Brides don't care about gear.

Most Brides want to relive their day and see all of those moments that they missed. If the videographer has a dedicated sound man or used multiple wireless mics and audio recorders, they couldn't care less. If they can hear their vows, the minister, music and vocalists, toasts and the like, that's what it important to them and not how the audio was obtained.

They also don't care if the camera has quarter inch, third inch, half inch or two thirds inch chips. They are not broadcast engineers. They are Brides.

Hi Bruce,

I couldn't agree more. It's one thing to put together a great 4 minute clip. It's a totally different thing to create as you said, "a complete film with proper flow from start to end."

We had so many videographers ask us for a complete DVD so they could see how all of the pieces flow together. The problem with that is that we do not release work to videographers without a watermark. So that would require us to re encode and re author the entire DVD. It was at that point that we decided to go ahead and make the two audio commentary tracks to make it really educational.

Hi Tim,

The Brides do not care what size of chips your camera has. They are not caught up in the gear. It is our responsibility to choose the equipment that will deliver a quality product to the customer while making a fair profit for our business.

I will start making that fair profit much sooner using a few $4000 cameras than using a few $15000 cameras.

At the same time, their is a balance to choosing the right gear. Single chip $1000 cameras that are terrible in low light is not the path to follow if the goal is to charge $10k.

I have not booked a $10k bride, but the bride that paid us $9200 didn't once ask us about chip size or anything about gear.

Ditto that sentiment. Its not about the equipment.

ditto on that ditto!

by the way...how are you doing joel?

Nor is it about size.

Ditto x3!

Equipment is ONE part of the equation - I saw a "videographer" demo'ing his footage from a pair of GL2's - My first thought was "there's no way one can make THAT camera look THAT BAAAAAD!" But either through inexperience or whatever, this stuff looked like a bad local cable production (know what I mean?), only worse...

What your market will bear is important - if you can't get high $$ bookings, 30K in equipment is not a good biz proposition... and you can always rent gear if your QUALITY OF WORK bags you a big gig.

Even a lowly "consumer" HDV cam properly shot, edited and rendered by someone who knows how to get the most out of the camera will give amazing results. Give a Z1 to a monkey... or an Arriflex if you've got big $$ to blow... and what do you get?

You can't start with complete junk gear that doesn't work right and expect to deliver anything decent... but spending a huge wad of money ain't going to make you an instant Spielberg either... it takes GOOD (not necessarily heinously expensive) camera/audio/support gear, and some TALENT to get the most out of that gear.

There's stuff making the TV that's shot primarily on cameras that are mostly "consumer grade" (Survivorman comes to mind)... so you going to say that's "crap" because it wasn't shot with fancy equipment?? Seems to be working fine for that show! Many others are using "consumer grade" or "prosumer" HDV cams for much of the footage nowadays too!!

Not everyone is going to have big $$ to blow (brides OR videographers), and sometimes less expensive gear gives an acceptable result at the right price point... But I guess if you can afford a Ferrari, you are welcome to sneer down your nose at my Toyota, now can I stuff my 3 kids in the back... no, well, that's why I have the car I do... !

HE HE HE - there ya go, equipment envy!

I the photography world there are lots of "how to" videos to buy. It does not mean I'm able to copy someones personality or etc. I'm just looking for a how to video by Patrick which teaches me a good foundation on Wedding Videography and "how to" use a steadicam on a wedding day. I have not seen anyone else using a steadicam like Patrick does on a wedding day. The video world and photography world seems to be very different in how to learn and sharing. I hope Patrick puts together a great wedding "how to" video..

Walter

Generally there is an open exchange of ideas and knowledge in the video and film community. This thread however might lead one to think otherwise.

You expect that one can learn more from a wedding video than from Hollywood movies, which are sold for $10-20? Oh I see, wedding videos is a totally different art, nothing that Hollywood has ever made is applicable.

On the topic: if I were the groom I would assume that my wedding video is MY wedding video, exclusively. I would not even think that the videographer would want to sell it to someone else.

You're right.
i was the one who asked Patrick to see a complete wedding video. My idea was learning something, seeing what other people are doing in this business.
I love Patrick's videos. To me, they are the best wedding videos.
First, i didn't see any problem asking for that, because i thought if people were on this site was for the exchange of ideas/technics, help and being helped.
But maybe I was wrong. Maybe we're not here to help and being helped. Maybe we're here just to show off and listen to people telling us we're great.
Maybe you all can start charging the B&G friends, because they will certainly see the video and they can also rip your ideas... OH! Uncle Bob is now a great videographer because he saw a blueskiescinema.com video...
Or maybe Spielberg must start charging 200$ for a movie ticket, because someone can get better then him by watching his movies.
Me? I don't want to rip anyones ideas or style. I'm just a fresh videographer willing to improve in a country where video is very bad paid and where there is no place to learn anything new. I want to see new things, new styles, and I'm ready to pay for a copy if i need to.
I will wait for Patrick response, and I hope it will be a positive one.
Sorry if my english is not the best, and i hope i didn't offend anyone.

L.R.

Hi Mark,

Well, I guess we can disagree.

Sure brides are not going to ask for technical information, and by saying they don't ask is kind of a cop-out.

When one can buy a lot-to-most of the equipment cost in a single booking, I feel the customer is being overcharged for the image output.

My point is that you may put a nice package together, but during the available light sequences, you camera can only look as good as it is, no amount of talent can stop the whites from clipping too early or the lack of color information, or the overall look that camera makes.

If somebody charges $10,000 per booking, and they book a few, can't they afford to use a higher level of equipment?

These are people here who are paying for our services, and the fact that they don't always know the difference leaves the responsiblilty to us, who do know the difference.

Just my ethics and opinion.

My chips are bigger than yours! ... so you should pay me more!

Boohoo! No one wants to pay me $10k even though I have THREE CCDs!

Instead of comparing chip sizes or whatever, why don't we aim to make a product that's worth paying more for?

Patrick, I think the sharing you've been doing on the forums and offline are with the intent of improving the quality of videography as a whole, so thank you for that. Charge what you think is worth your time for making copies and answering the swarm of questions you will undoubtedly receive. It's definitely appreciated that you share your work and I'm sure many others will benefit from your DVD as has been stated many times already.

A good model is Glen Elliott's training DVD. He gives the DVD as a client would receive it and added special tracks where he comments on his process and thoughts as well as subtitle tracks about equipment used and another subtitle track with the questions that he asked that you see the client answering on the video. It gives a lot more insight into his work process and, of course, it took him a lot more time than just burning a client's DVD.

Hi Tim,

Thank you for being civil while disagreeing with me.

Perhaps I have misunderstood the type of cameras you are referring to. I understood that you were saying that 1/3 inch cameras were not appropriate to use if the Bride is paying $10,000. But then you commented that a single $10,000 booking would pay for a lot to most of the equipment needed. Well obviously you cannot buy three PD 170s and especially 3 Z1s, the support gear, audio gear and lighting gear for $10,000, let alone the hardware and software needed to edit the project. If I'm missing something, please let me know.

I don't know what gear you use and exactly how you price your weddings, but I was basing my observation on a handful of wedding videographers that I know personally who get $10k plus, yet shoot with 1/3 inch cameras.

My point was that the Brides we have booked our company have not asked about equipment and I don't consider that a cop-out. They see DVDs we have produced for other clients, they like what they see and they book. Most of our weddings fall in the $3000-$5500 range, but we have had some 6-7k weddings and even the top booking at $9200 did not ask about our gear. They saw what we produced for other clients, liked it and booked.

They were not interested in the whites clipping too early or a lack of color information. They saw a creative, emotional movie of the day and based their purchase on what they saw and how it moved them.

At the end of the day, a Bride will spend her money with the videographer who uses 1/3 inch gear, but moves her, versus the videographer that has better gear, but does not move her. It's not the gear, but how you use it to tell the story of her day. This is what I have experienced over the last 11 years in this business.

Not to accuse anyone or create negative impact, but it seems like a lot of wedding videos are beginning to look alike. Or is it just my imagination?

Don't tell me you never took an idea from someone else's video. Everyone does, everyone did and everyone will.
And even if everybody makes the same kind of stuff, there will be differences anyway. I can copy a Picasso, but it will never be a real Picasso.
So, what's your point? Are you afraid that the copies will be better than the original? I don't think so...

L.R.