Client requests "all rights"

[Jeff Kellam]

Originally Posted by William Smyth

Actually, I really don't mind giving the client the rights to do whatever they want with the video. My guess is he either works in the industry or is a high-end amateur and may to have the opportunity down the road to re-cut the footage. Who knows may it will someday become part of some larger family video or whatever. I'm cool with that. My concern is that this particular client is interested in one of our largest packages with all the bells and whistles. I just to be able to use whatever I like on our website, in our demo and to send to potential new clients.

So, I'm thinking of adding a rider to our contract giving them the rights to our video, but retaining rights so we can use our footage for "promotional" purposes.

The rights you are talking about, a model release, must be given to you by the model, you can't retain something you don't have. The copyright owner can't just do anything they please with models images without the models (newlyweds) express agreement.

[William Smyth]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kellam

The rights you are talking about, a model release, must be given to you by the model, you can't retain something you don't have. The copyright owner can't just do anything they please with models images without the models (newlyweds) express agreement.

So, are you saying you get a model release from the bride and groom for the wedding you shoot and post on your website? Does not having such a release prevent you from posting sending a demo of your work to potential clients. That seems to be what you're saying.

[Jeff Kellam]

Originally Posted by William Smyth

So, are you saying you get a model release from the bride and groom for the wedding you shoot and post on your website?

Yes

Originally Posted by William Smyth

Does not having such a release prevent you from posting sending a demo of your work to potential clients. That seems to be what you're saying.

Yes

Since you only want commercial use of maybe a few of your best works, you only have to convince those few people to sign the model release. The releases can be very detailed describing how and when/how long you will use the work.

[Ethan Cooper]

We've always had it in our contracts that the footage can be used in our advertising, and we've never had anyone question this clause. I'm sure if it ever came up that we could work out a reasonable buy out of all rights if they so wanted.

What would be a fair price for such a buy out? Say I'm charging $2500 for a package and they want to buy out their rights, what would be a fair price? For those of you who have done this, what do you charge for the rights?

[William Smyth]

Originally Posted by Ethan Cooper

We've always had it in our contracts that the footage can be used in our advertising, and we've never had anyone question this clause. I'm sure if it ever came up that we could work out a reasonable buy out of all rights if they so wanted.

What would be a fair price for such a buy out? Say I'm charging $2500 for a package and they want to buy out their rights, what would be a fair price? For those of you who have done this, what do you charge for the rights?

Ethan, that's exactly what we have in our contract too. So I think we're covered for use of our videos in our marketing. Most of our clients like being in our demos, but if they complained, I wouldn't make a bid deal out if it.

As far as selling the rights, in the situation from the original post, I don't think I would charge the B&G for the rights, as long as we were allowed to retain our rights too.

The way I look at it, how many times do you ever go back to an old wedding. For us, it's pretty rare. I just want them to be happy with our service and maybe send a few referrals our way. But, something about the request made an alarm go off in my head and figured I'd bounce it off the collective expertise of the members of this board.

[Jeff Harper]

I would give them the rights. The whole concept of selling the bride and groom the rights to their video images is ludicrous.

Photographers around here often charge the couple $300 or so for a CD with the rights. I don't get it. Charge what you need to charge up front for your services and forget it, I say.

I am not Hollywood, I am not even NY. I am in Cincnnati. Brides and grooms are charged to death for everything else. Why charge for something that costs me nothing? I notice that I sleep especially well after doing nice things for people, and in my book this is a no brainer.

Just my opinion.

[Peter Szilveszter]

I usualy have no issue if they don't want to use it for promo reasons etc..

If I have some really good shots and I want to use it in the demo I would simply get a release form stating the specifics, as long as you agreed at the time that if there was something I'd like to use I would request a written release and if they would be ok with that.

[William Smyth]

I'd like to maybe focus this discussion a little more. I'm not so much asking whether or not I should sell the rights to the B&G. Asking for money was never something I considered, we don't nickel and dime our clients to death. We make DVD copies very affordable, and I don't really care if the B&G make their own copies for their family and friends.

But I'd like to find out if there are any possible problems down the road if I give up the rights. Anyone ever run into any problems after giving up rights to the video?

[Jeff Harper]

You're right, did lose focus on your original topic. My customers have full rights to all of their images and I haven't had problems, I can imagine some possible issues, but those seem remote to me. Their are lots of pros around here that might have had some experience otherwise.

[Steve House]

Originally Posted by Jeff Harper

I would give them the rights. The whole concept of selling the bride and groom the rights to their video images is ludicrous.

Photographers around here often charge the couple $300 or so for a CD with the rights. I don't get it. Charge what you need to charge up front for your services and forget it, I say.

I am not Hollywood, I am not even NY. I am in Cincnnati. Brides and grooms are charged to death for everything else. Why charge for something that costs me nothing? I notice that I sleep especially well after doing nice things for people, and in my book this is a no brainer.

Just my opinion.

The reason a still photog wants to retain the rights is mainly to secure any on-going revenue from additional print orders. If the couple owns the rights, they can take the images anyplace and have more prints made. If the photog retains the rights, they have to come back to him for any further print orders - it's illegal for someone else to make copies, even for the couple themselves to do it if you go by the letter of the law. Reprints of the portraits and album can be a signifigant revenue generator but whether a similar potential revenue stream exists for copies of the video, capable of generating signifigant future revenue for the videographer, is up for grabs. Bride might order framed copies of her formal portrait to give her mother and inlaws as a gift on Mother's Day, netting the studio potentially hundreds or thousands of dollars in additional revenue, but how often would she do that with the video?

I only learned a couple of months ago that there is an interesting exception in the copyright law here in Canada that deals specifically with still photohgraphy by wedding photographers and portrait studios. Generally the copyright to an image automatically belongs to the person who made it but Canadian law specifically states that the copyright to images made of weddings and to formal portrait sittings belong to the person who hired the photographer, not the photographer himself. As I read the provision it only applies to stills, not videos, but I'm not a lawyer and I could be worng.

[Chris Davis]

Originally Posted by William Smyth

But I'd like to find out if there are any possible problems down the road if I give up the rights. Anyone ever run into any problems after giving up rights to the video?

I don't think you'd be risking anything by giving (or selling) them the rights. I suspect two possible reasons - one of them hopes to be the next J-Lo or Brad Pitt and doesn't want you selling their wedding to some tabloid show five years from now. The other (more likely) reason - they read it in a bride magazine.

Now, if you did give them the rights and one of them did become the next J-Lo or Brad Pitt, well, you'd be kicking yourself!

[John Knight]

Originally Posted by William Smyth

But I'd like to find out if there are any possible problems down the road if I give up the rights. Anyone ever run into any problems after giving up rights to the video?

No - there will be no problems down the road.... you are over-thinking things.... give them all the rights.... get on with your business - making money. :)

[Richard Alvarez]

"Give them all the rights" means you do NOT retain any rights - therefore you CANNOT use the material f
or promotional purposes.

If you wish to retain some of the rights, you must stipulate this.

In the U.S. under copyright law, YOU are the 'author' of the work, and retain ALL RIGHTS unless transfered by WRITTEN AGREEMENT.

This is not 'overthinking'... this is understanding the business.

If there is no specific written agreement, then there is no transfer.

[Shaun Roemich]

Originally Posted by Steve House

The reason a still photog wants to retain the rights is mainly to secure any on-going revenue from additional print orders.

As well, to assure quality. Pro labs using custom printing vs. the local megastore instant printer will result in vastly varying quality, which is then attributed to the original photographer.

[John Knight]

Originally Posted by Richard Alvarez

"Give them all the rights" means you do NOT retain any rights - therefore you CANNOT use the material for promotional purposes.

The original post indicated it was a strange, possibly one-off request. So what I'm saying is just give them all rights if it means closing the deal. Who cares if you cannot use the material for promotional purposes. Take the money, hand over the tapes, give them the rights, pat them on the head, move onto the next client.

It's just a wedding video - not bloody MATRIX PART VII