All that beautiful slo-mo.... at DVinfo.net

Peter Mee · January 29th, 2009, 04:33 PM

Hi all

Learning here. Looking at some of the really nice wedding highlights you guys produce and I see a LOT of slow mo material therein.

Can I ask, do people overcrank on the day or slow footage down in post?

I have an EX1 which has an overcrank facility but it's buired in the menus and I don't fancy switching it on and off all the time.

If shooting normal fps, what settings work best for slowing down in post. I'm thinking 720p/50 with shutter of 100. Will that do the trick? (using FCP for editing).

I'll be doing some tests on this in the next couple of days but would appreciate any pointers so I don't waste too much time on dead ends.

Peter

Travis Cossel · January 29th, 2009, 06:29 PM

I shoot in 24F on the Canon XH-A1 and usually use a shutter of 24 or 48. I slow footage down to 50% and I think it looks fine. I would use overcranking if it was a feature on the Canon, but it's not. You can also look into using Twixtor software, which apparently gives great results .. but it's not cheap either.

Stephen J. Williams · January 29th, 2009, 07:24 PM

There's also another method for getting a smoother slow-mo out of your editing program...
do you guys want butter? super smooth slow motion - DVXuser.com -- The online community for filmmaking
the guy gives the instructions if you were working with 24p... but i'm pretty sure it works the same for interlaced.

if use this method it seems to work bette with frame blending deselected and crop the top and bottom of the image to reduce flicker.

steve

Randy Stewart · January 29th, 2009, 08:40 PM

Generally, using your editor to do your slo-mo will result in better quality. Here's a link to a VASST training video excerpt that explains why: YouTube - Sony HVR-Z7U Camcorder Training (Excerpt). While the video is about the Z7, I've done some testing with the EX1 with the same results. Hope this helps.
Randy

Edit: Here's another example from the HVR-270 training DVD: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVSkZrbSItQ. Some pretty cool footage showing slo-mo.

Vito DeFilippo · January 29th, 2009, 08:50 PM

I would guess that for weddings, most do not overcrank. You would have to know beforehand which shots you want in slomo, which could be problematic. And slowmo 33-50% is no big deal to get a good result from non-overcranked footage.

Choice of NLE makes a big difference. I remember being amazed at how much better the slomo was in AVID than it was in Premiere when I switched. Perhaps it's better in Premiere now, but I haven't used it for a couple of versions. I don't know about Vegas or others, as I don't have much experience in them.

Randy Stewart · January 29th, 2009, 08:52 PM

Vegas does very well with slo-mo. The footage in my previous post was edited in Vegas.
Randy

Blake Cavett · January 29th, 2009, 09:48 PM

Maybe I'm missing something here but in FCP I just right click on the clip, change the 'speed' to 50% and I'm happy.

There's more to making something slo-mo than that?!

Luke Oliver · January 30th, 2009, 06:57 AM

ive just been playing with twixtor shotting 25p and the results are amazing compared to just right clicking adn changing speed to 50

still havnt figured out how to remmap time on it though, and there are no tuturiols on the net

luke

Danny O'Neill · January 30th, 2009, 08:29 AM

The results ive seen with twixtor are truely amazing. Its almost like a high speed camera.

As has been said, weddings are often fast moving and you wont get time to overcrank so do it in post.

Vegas is poo for slow mo, even with supersampling its often a bit jumpy.

Yang Wen · January 30th, 2009, 08:34 AM

Slo-mo is relaly overrated for wedding videos IMO..

But if to do a slow-mo, the less smooth slow-mo from normal 24p footage looks much better and more visceral for wedding videos than super smooth overcranked stuff that looks like a car crash test video..

Dennis Murphy · January 31st, 2009, 02:59 PM

I'm a bit of a slo-mo lover. I love the different reality it presents.
Due to only owning an XHA1, I do not have the facility to overcrank (which guts me).
After extensive experimentation, the simplest and most effective way I've found for the smoothest slow-mo is to shoot in 50i (I'm in PAL land) and import that into a 25p timeline (I use Vegas) with the field blending set to 'interpolate'. I don't reduce the speed beyond 50%.

Latest example of this technique that I've shot: Lyall Bay Surfing January 2009 Wellington, New Zealand. on Vimeo

Ger Griffin · January 31st, 2009, 06:47 PM

Nice footage Dennis.

Hey Peter, Welcome to the forum. In Galway here.

I find if your shooting 25f then 50% is the only speed to slow it down to.
The results are acceptable for a wedding as long as theres not too much movent.

If you want super smooth i think 50i at shutter speed of 1/50 and slowed to 50% is about as good as you'll get.

If you must shoot 25f but still arent happy with what your nle can do with it then look at twixtor.

Dana Salsbury · February 1st, 2009, 11:42 AM

I've found 65% is the slowest I feel compfortable with. It seems to be a little choppy at 50%.

What is the ideal HD/Blu-Ray output setup for good slo-mo, as I've heard different things? 1080i50? 60? 1080p24? 25? 30? 720p24? 25? 30? 50? 60?

I feel slo-mo is essential to bring out the elegance of bridal prep, but I just bought two Panny HMC150s that don't offer overcrank.

January 29th, 2009, 04:33 PM	#1
Peter Mee Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Carrickmacross, Ireland Posts: 26	All that beautiful slo-mo.... Hi all Learning here. Looking at some of the really nice wedding highlights you guys produce and I see a LOT of slow mo material therein. Can I ask, do people overcrank on the day or slow footage down in post? I have an EX1 which has an overcrank facility but it's buired in the menus and I don't fancy switching it on and off all the time. If shooting normal fps, what settings work best for slowing down in post. I'm thinking 720p/50 with shutter of 100. Will that do the trick? (using FCP for editing). I'll be doing some tests on this in the next couple of days but would appreciate any pointers so I don't waste too much time on dead ends. Peter

January 29th, 2009, 06:29 PM	#2
Travis Cossel Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 2,933	I shoot in 24F on the Canon XH-A1 and usually use a shutter of 24 or 48. I slow footage down to 50% and I think it looks fine. I would use overcranking if it was a feature on the Canon, but it's not. You can also look into using Twixtor software, which apparently gives great results .. but it's not cheap either. __________________ Black Label Films www.blacklabelweddingfilms.com

January 29th, 2009, 08:50 PM	#5
Vito DeFilippo Trustee Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Montreal, Quebec Posts: 1,585	I would guess that for weddings, most do not overcrank. You would have to know beforehand which shots you want in slomo, which could be problematic. And slowmo 33-50% is no big deal to get a good result from non-overcranked footage. Choice of NLE makes a big difference. I remember being amazed at how much better the slomo was in AVID than it was in Premiere when I switched. Perhaps it's better in Premiere now, but I haven't used it for a couple of versions. I don't know about Vegas or others, as I don't have much experience in them. __________________ . http://www.nosmallroles.com

January 30th, 2009, 06:57 AM	#8
Luke Oliver Major Player Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Guernsey , Channel Islands Posts: 242	re ive just been playing with twixtor shotting 25p and the results are amazing compared to just right clicking adn changing speed to 50 still havnt figured out how to remmap time on it though, and there are no tuturiols on the net luke

January 30th, 2009, 08:29 AM	#9
Danny O'Neill Major Player Join Date: May 2008 Location: Northampton, UK Posts: 915	The results ive seen with twixtor are truely amazing. Its almost like a high speed camera. As has been said, weddings are often fast moving and you wont get time to overcrank so do it in post. Vegas is poo for slow mo, even with supersampling its often a bit jumpy. __________________ mintyslippers.com

January 29th, 2009, 07:24 PM	#3
Stephen J. Williams Major Player Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 768	There's also another method for getting a smoother slow-mo out of your editing program... do you guys want butter? super smooth slow motion - DVXuser.com -- The online community for filmmaking the guy gives the instructions if you were working with 24p... but i'm pretty sure it works the same for interlaced. if use this method it seems to work bette with frame blending deselected and crop the top and bottom of the image to reduce flicker. steve

January 29th, 2009, 08:40 PM	#4
Randy Stewart Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Hooper, UT Posts: 177	Generally, using your editor to do your slo-mo will result in better quality. Here's a link to a VASST training video excerpt that explains why: YouTube - Sony HVR-Z7U Camcorder Training (Excerpt). While the video is about the Z7, I've done some testing with the EX1 with the same results. Hope this helps. Randy Edit: Here's another example from the HVR-270 training DVD: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVSkZrbSItQ. Some pretty cool footage showing slo-mo.

January 29th, 2009, 08:52 PM	#6
Randy Stewart Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Hooper, UT Posts: 177	Vegas does very well with slo-mo. The footage in my previous post was edited in Vegas. Randy

January 29th, 2009, 09:48 PM	#7
Blake Cavett Major Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Madison Posts: 330	Maybe I'm missing something here but in FCP I just right click on the clip, change the 'speed' to 50% and I'm happy. There's more to making something slo-mo than that?!

January 30th, 2009, 08:34 AM	#10
Yang Wen Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 991	Slo-mo is relaly overrated for wedding videos IMO.. But if to do a slow-mo, the less smooth slow-mo from normal 24p footage looks much better and more visceral for wedding videos than super smooth overcranked stuff that looks like a car crash test video..

January 31st, 2009, 02:59 PM	#11
Dennis Murphy Major Player Join Date: May 2006 Location: Whangarei, New Zealand Posts: 396	I'm a bit of a slo-mo lover. I love the different reality it presents. Due to only owning an XHA1, I do not have the facility to overcrank (which guts me). After extensive experimentation, the simplest and most effective way I've found for the smoothest slow-mo is to shoot in 50i (I'm in PAL land) and import that into a 25p timeline (I use Vegas) with the field blending set to 'interpolate'. I don't reduce the speed beyond 50%. Latest example of this technique that I've shot: Lyall Bay Surfing January 2009 Wellington, New Zealand. on Vimeo __________________ http://www.dmvideostuff.co.nz

January 31st, 2009, 06:47 PM	#12
Ger Griffin Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Ireland Posts: 579	Nice footage Dennis. Hey Peter, Welcome to the forum. In Galway here. I find if your shooting 25f then 50% is the only speed to slow it down to. The results are acceptable for a wedding as long as theres not too much movent. If you want super smooth i think 50i at shutter speed of 1/50 and slowed to 50% is about as good as you'll get. If you must shoot 25f but still arent happy with what your nle can do with it then look at twixtor.

February 1st, 2009, 11:42 AM	#13
Dana Salsbury Major Player Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 859	I've found 65% is the slowest I feel compfortable with. It seems to be a little choppy at 50%. What is the ideal HD/Blu-Ray output setup for good slo-mo, as I've heard different things? 1080i50? 60? 1080p24? 25? 30? 720p24? 25? 30? 50? 60? I feel slo-mo is essential to bring out the elegance of bridal prep, but I just bought two Panny HMC150s that don't offer overcrank. __________________ www.LegacyHDV.com Weddings \| Corporate \| HMC150s \| FCPX \| Encore \| Lion