NLE: Your Suggestions at DVinfo.net

Colby Knight · June 17th, 2005, 02:39 PM

Within the next 2-3 months, yours truly plans on investing in a NLE for home/personal use. Budget: 5-8k (including software & hardware).

What will I be using it for? Weddings, recital videos and other odd projects FOR NOW. In the future? Who knows. Hopefully bigger & better things.

I need something that won't take 6 years to learn and master.
I want to be able to burn my project to a DVD rather easily (like chapter marking in the timeline for example).
I want something with a multi-cam feature for the events I cover.
Color-correction, titling, effects, etc. are all musts as well.

I'd love to hear from the pros out there and what they would suggest. What do you use and what do you run it on?

Thanks in advance.

Edward Troxel · June 17th, 2005, 02:58 PM

My favorite is Vegas. Scripts like Excalibur make Multi-cam a breeze. Color correction is also great in Vegas. Adding markers on the timeline will translate to chapter points in DVD Architect.

However, you haven't mentioned whether you prefer PC or MAC. You also haven't mentioned whether you have any previous experience with any NLE. That could make a difference.

Brian K Jones · June 17th, 2005, 03:52 PM

I prefer Vegas as well. I got my system from Promax. If you don't know them, check out their site at www.promax.com. I spent about $8000.00, but that was for the whole sha-bang. Dual 3.6 Xeon, both monitors and a Sony PVM14L2 preview monitor. It also came with many extras. I also do weddings, and Vegas is a great application for event editing. What kind of camera are you using?

Maurizio Panella · June 17th, 2005, 04:14 PM

I prefer Pinnacle Liquid Edition Pro version with FilmFX plug-in.I use it with a good pc workstation (Ibm Intellistation Z-Pro dual xeon 3.06) and a good Sony Vaio laptop (software only with Canopus advc100).
And I'm happy.

Maurizio.

Colby Knight · June 17th, 2005, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian K Jones

I prefer Vegas as well. I got my system from Promax. If you don't know them, check out their site at www.promax.com. I spent about $8000.00, but that was for the whole sha-bang. Dual 3.6 Xeon, both monitors and a Sony PVM14L2 preview monitor. It also came with many extras. I also do weddings, and Vegas is a great application for event editing. What kind of camera are you using?

I have a Sony PD 170.

Pete Wilie · June 18th, 2005, 02:24 AM

If you want to "future-proof" your investment, then Final Cut Pro Studio 5 or Avid XpressProHD 5 is your best bet. These are the only two NLEs that currently suppport full HD (DVCProHD). FCP has also been very agressive in updating and supporting new features. Avid generally follows the features that of FCP. FCP Studio will give you all the tools you need including DVD authoring.

FCP, Avid, and Liquid Edition 6 are the only NLEs that support true multi-camera editing. Vegas 6 might also -- don't know for sure.

Of course, if you go with FCP then you have to buy a Mac. But you mentioned that your budget is 5-8K including software and hardware. You can definitely buy a PowerMac Dual G5 system with FCP Studio 5 within this price range. And if you really have this budget, then FCP would be my personal selection. And this is from a person who generally prefers a PC. After Avid, there are more movies cut on FCP than any other NLE. But realize that most Hollywood Avid systems are the "professional" versions costing tens of thousands of dollars and more. I would have to say that FCP is the indie filmmakers NLE of choice.

Even if you use a PC for most/all of your other stuff, dedicating a system to editing (whether PC or Mac) is a good idea if your budget allows.

One important factor is support. I don't think you'll find better peer-to-peer support than FCP. Whenever you get stumped, it's very helpful to post a question on the NLE forum to get help.

Finally, there is the training issue. Not sure about Avid XpressProHD or Vegas 6, but I can tell you that there are many options for FCP training, including some excellent computer-based DVD tutorials. IMO, taking these tutorials is one of the best ways to learn the NLE quickly.

Good luck with your business, and let us know how it goes.

Brian K Jones · June 19th, 2005, 05:57 PM

Actually, Vegas 6 does have multi cam support. It also supports Blackmagic Design for uncompressed HD editing. Avid is nice, but highly overpriced. The audio tools in Vegas are unparralled. So, to answer the original question on this thread, I think Vegas 6 will suit a wedding videographers needs perfectly, even if he plans to move onto bigger things.

Kevin Shaw · June 19th, 2005, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete Wilie

If you want to "future-proof" your investment, then Final Cut Pro Studio 5 or Avid XpressProHD 5 is your best bet. These are the only two NLEs that currently suppport full HD (DVCProHD). FCP has also been very agressive in updating and supporting new features. ...FCP, Avid, and Liquid Edition 6 are the only NLEs that support true multi-camera editing. Vegas 6 might also -- don't know for sure.

Canopus Edius supports editing of DVCProHD with the optional "Canopus codec pack," and can also edit MPEG1, MPEG2, DV, uncompressed SD, native HDV, HDV converted to the Canopus HQ codec, and so on. Canopus also has the only shipping real-time HDV accelerator card, which starts at $1299 with the Edius software plus $800 for full-quality component HDTV output. And Canopus has announced that they will soon support multi-camera editing through a third-party plugin, plus they recently introduced support for Boris Red effects. They still have some work to do to make Edius a full-featured editing tool, but within the limitations of what it can do its hard to beat in terms of real-time capabilities.

Also note that Avid doesn't currently offer HDV editing, and Apple just added a proper HDV solution almost two years after the format was introduced. (They apparently did a good job, but I wouldn't call that an "aggressive" implementation schedule.) Anyway, the point is not to be too sure that the better-known names in editing are the ones leading the pack on everything.

Brian K Jones · June 20th, 2005, 08:14 PM

I second what Kevin just wrote. There is alot more to the NLE world than Avid and FCP.

Glen Elliott · June 21st, 2005, 09:35 AM

+1 for Vegas.

Vegas is fast, intuitive, and very powerful. The audio editing tools/capability is second to none and their effects and color correction tools are VERY comprehensive...performaning things that other NLEs would require after-market plug-ins to create. Also if you come across a good mix of filters that give you a visual effect you like- you can save it as an "effects package". Very handy. I use it all the time.

DVD Architect 2 is incredible- just completed my first 2 projects with it. Very smooth workflow- and as Edward mentioned, you simply drop markers on the timeline where you want chapter markers to be and they will be saved with the file when rendered. Once you bring it into DVD Architect it detects them and automatically creates chapter markers out of them. Then you can right-click on the file and choose "Insert Scene Selection Menu" and it'll automatically make new menus with links to the individual chapters.

Peter Jefferson · June 21st, 2005, 11:08 AM

what glen said is on the nail, on top of that, for weddings and private events the cost of fully fledged avid or fcp system doesnt justify the costs..
Vegas 6 has some incredible features that NEITHER of these pro systems can even sneeze at..

Vegas 6 on its own kicks some serious ass.. throw in dvda3 and the SPEED in which a dvd can be created is just gold... seriosuly, ive done it for demos and its takes a whopping 17 seconds to create a dvd with motion menu and chapter selection screen

Pete Wilie · June 21st, 2005, 11:23 PM

Here's a Tour of FCP Studio 5 you may find helpful.

Patrick Jenkins · June 26th, 2005, 08:29 PM

What does multi-cam support mean? Wouldn't that be multiple tracks? As long as you can drop both captured sequences on the timeline and then splice it up from there, you've got multi-cam support.

Or does this refer to some live switching thing?

Richard Alvarez · June 26th, 2005, 08:32 PM

Patrick

In NLE terms, multi-cam support means that you can load multiple feeds from different cameras into the timeline, sync them up, have them ALL show up on a 'multi-view' type of screen... and then simply 'switch' between views as if they were live, as the views update while watching.

Different NLE's have slightly different approaches as to how this is accomplished.

Pat Sherman · August 21st, 2005, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colby Knight

Within the next 2-3 months, yours truly plans on investing in a NLE for home/personal use. Budget: 5-8k (including software & hardware).
Thanks in advance.

I use a Matrox RT.X100 system with Adobe Premiere Pro 1.5 and usually comes with Adobe Encore and Audition. I have use After Effects for comps..

I also use an Avid DV system, but not as much as I use Premiere primarily because I have always used Premiere for years and more comfortable with it..

The price point on the Matrox is nice, infact I have 2 more of those systems at work as well.

June 17th, 2005, 02:39 PM	#1
Colby Knight Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Huntsville, Alabama Posts: 111	NLE: Your Suggestions Within the next 2-3 months, yours truly plans on investing in a NLE for home/personal use. Budget: 5-8k (including software & hardware). What will I be using it for? Weddings, recital videos and other odd projects FOR NOW. In the future? Who knows. Hopefully bigger & better things. I need something that won't take 6 years to learn and master. I want to be able to burn my project to a DVD rather easily (like chapter marking in the timeline for example). I want something with a multi-cam feature for the events I cover. Color-correction, titling, effects, etc. are all musts as well. I'd love to hear from the pros out there and what they would suggest. What do you use and what do you run it on? Thanks in advance.

June 17th, 2005, 02:58 PM	#2
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	My favorite is Vegas. Scripts like Excalibur make Multi-cam a breeze. Color correction is also great in Vegas. Adding markers on the timeline will translate to chapter points in DVD Architect. However, you haven't mentioned whether you prefer PC or MAC. You also haven't mentioned whether you have any previous experience with any NLE. That could make a difference. __________________ Edward Troxel [SCVU] JETDV Scripts/Scripting Tutorials/Excalibur/Montage Magic/Newsletters

June 21st, 2005, 11:23 PM	#12
Pete Wilie Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 331	Tour of FCP Studio 5 Here's a Tour of FCP Studio 5 you may find helpful.

June 26th, 2005, 08:29 PM	#13
Patrick Jenkins Major Player Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Maryland, USA Posts: 382	What does multi-cam support mean? Wouldn't that be multiple tracks? As long as you can drop both captured sequences on the timeline and then splice it up from there, you've got multi-cam support. Or does this refer to some live switching thing? __________________ PAL shooter in NTSC territory

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June 17th, 2005, 03:52 PM	#3
Brian K Jones Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 68	I prefer Vegas as well. I got my system from Promax. If you don't know them, check out their site at www.promax.com. I spent about $8000.00, but that was for the whole sha-bang. Dual 3.6 Xeon, both monitors and a Sony PVM14L2 preview monitor. It also came with many extras. I also do weddings, and Vegas is a great application for event editing. What kind of camera are you using?

June 17th, 2005, 04:14 PM	#4
Maurizio Panella Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Reggio Emilia Italy Posts: 63	I prefer Pinnacle Liquid Edition Pro version with FilmFX plug-in.I use it with a good pc workstation (Ibm Intellistation Z-Pro dual xeon 3.06) and a good Sony Vaio laptop (software only with Canopus advc100). And I'm happy. Maurizio.

June 18th, 2005, 02:24 AM	#6
Pete Wilie Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 331	If you want to "future-proof" your investment, then Final Cut Pro Studio 5 or Avid XpressProHD 5 is your best bet. These are the only two NLEs that currently suppport full HD (DVCProHD). FCP has also been very agressive in updating and supporting new features. Avid generally follows the features that of FCP. FCP Studio will give you all the tools you need including DVD authoring. FCP, Avid, and Liquid Edition 6 are the only NLEs that support true multi-camera editing. Vegas 6 might also -- don't know for sure. Of course, if you go with FCP then you have to buy a Mac. But you mentioned that your budget is 5-8K including software and hardware. You can definitely buy a PowerMac Dual G5 system with FCP Studio 5 within this price range. And if you really have this budget, then FCP would be my personal selection. And this is from a person who generally prefers a PC. After Avid, there are more movies cut on FCP than any other NLE. But realize that most Hollywood Avid systems are the "professional" versions costing tens of thousands of dollars and more. I would have to say that FCP is the indie filmmakers NLE of choice. Even if you use a PC for most/all of your other stuff, dedicating a system to editing (whether PC or Mac) is a good idea if your budget allows. One important factor is support. I don't think you'll find better peer-to-peer support than FCP. Whenever you get stumped, it's very helpful to post a question on the NLE forum to get help. Finally, there is the training issue. Not sure about Avid XpressProHD or Vegas 6, but I can tell you that there are many options for FCP training, including some excellent computer-based DVD tutorials. IMO, taking these tutorials is one of the best ways to learn the NLE quickly. Good luck with your business, and let us know how it goes.

June 19th, 2005, 05:57 PM	#7
Brian K Jones Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 68	Actually, Vegas 6 does have multi cam support. It also supports Blackmagic Design for uncompressed HD editing. Avid is nice, but highly overpriced. The audio tools in Vegas are unparralled. So, to answer the original question on this thread, I think Vegas 6 will suit a wedding videographers needs perfectly, even if he plans to move onto bigger things.

June 20th, 2005, 08:14 PM	#9
Brian K Jones Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 68	I second what Kevin just wrote. There is alot more to the NLE world than Avid and FCP.

June 21st, 2005, 09:35 AM	#10
Glen Elliott Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,898	+1 for Vegas. Vegas is fast, intuitive, and very powerful. The audio editing tools/capability is second to none and their effects and color correction tools are VERY comprehensive...performaning things that other NLEs would require after-market plug-ins to create. Also if you come across a good mix of filters that give you a visual effect you like- you can save it as an "effects package". Very handy. I use it all the time. DVD Architect 2 is incredible- just completed my first 2 projects with it. Very smooth workflow- and as Edward mentioned, you simply drop markers on the timeline where you want chapter markers to be and they will be saved with the file when rendered. Once you bring it into DVD Architect it detects them and automatically creates chapter markers out of them. Then you can right-click on the file and choose "Insert Scene Selection Menu" and it'll automatically make new menus with links to the individual chapters.

June 21st, 2005, 11:08 AM	#11
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	what glen said is on the nail, on top of that, for weddings and private events the cost of fully fledged avid or fcp system doesnt justify the costs.. Vegas 6 has some incredible features that NEITHER of these pro systems can even sneeze at.. Vegas 6 on its own kicks some serious ass.. throw in dvda3 and the SPEED in which a dvd can be created is just gold... seriosuly, ive done it for demos and its takes a whopping 17 seconds to create a dvd with motion menu and chapter selection screen

June 26th, 2005, 08:32 PM	#14
Richard Alvarez Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 3,840	Patrick In NLE terms, multi-cam support means that you can load multiple feeds from different cameras into the timeline, sync them up, have them ALL show up on a 'multi-view' type of screen... and then simply 'switch' between views as if they were live, as the views update while watching. Different NLE's have slightly different approaches as to how this is accomplished.