Question regarding raw footage...

[Stephen J. Williams]

I'm not going to lie... I HATE when a client asks me for the raw footage on DVD's. For one I don't like to show work that I haven't taken the time to properly edit out the shakes, bad camera movements, poor audio, color, and whatever else comes when you press record before you grab your shot.
In the past (and also for this one client).... I have provided raw footage upon request for no additional charge. But this is the last time.

I just thought about it... I'm in the middle of working on another wedding. I have to put everything on hold and tie up my computer for 15 hours (estimated) to render the raw footage and transfer to DVD.

What do you guys charge? I know this has been discussed but I also wanted to vent a little.

I mean after weeks of creating a short form edit of 45 minutes, then plus another 35 minutes of deleted scenes. There's not much else to see but poor camera work in my opinion (i hate saying that but it's true).

Steve

[James Workman]

Simply state in your contract that you do not provide raw footage without an extra charge. And then make that charge high enough to discourage your customers from bothering with it.
If you painted someone a picture, you wouldn't be expected to also provide all the sketches you made......

[Perrone Ford]

I am SO glad I don't do this kind of work.

So being me, I'd offer the following.

Free of charge SD copy. Timecode burn top center. A clean copy doubles the price of the package. If they want it, make them pay for it.

Nothing says RAW footage like a timecode burn. If they complain, ask, "You didn't expect me to do another 15 hours of work for FREE did you?"

I have zero patience for crap like this.

[Don Bloom]

Stephen, even when I supply the uncut unedited version (RAW footage) of my short form edits I get crazy and hell, it's a part of the package. Now mind you, it's the ceremony and reception only, no creative parts. So here's what I do. Since I start with a long form timeline anyway, I cut out the floor, ceiling, belly buttons and boobs. Then I render to AC3/MPEG2 and burn 1 copy of the footage. That's 1 disc for the ceremony and 1 for the reception. I make it a single play movie, auto start, BUT have a placard stating the same as what I print on the face of the DVD which is a statement that the footage is not edited, not CC'd and no audio sweetening has been done.
I figure the value at $150.00 and go from there.

[Doug Bennett]

what are the deleted scenes? You can't have 35 minutes of bloopers...

I'll often have speeches or interviews that get excluded from the edit. But then I'll include them in separate chapters.

I can't imagine anyone really wanting raw footage. If they can get it free I guess. But that's a lot of work if you have 5 or six hours of tape. If it's a multicam shoot they want tapes from each camera? Even though one may have no audio?

When you are selling a short-form edit you need to reassure the client that one way or another they will get all the footage they would want.

[Perrone Ford]

I'd put the belly buttons and boobs back in and charge $1500!

[Don Bloom]

Heh, maybe a new package for me. I can call it the B&B, only an extra $1500. Hey my buddy Perrone said it'd be OK!

O|O
\__/

[Don Bloom]

Doug, the reason I include the RAW, is my short form runs 40 to 50 minutes.
So take a Catholic mass ceremony. right aroung 60 minutes. Nope, I cut to about 9 to 11 minutes but I got tired of the calls that mom and grandma wanted to see the whole thing so I started adding the RAW, but I did add in my prices for it.

I don't do deleted scenes or bloopers either.

As for the RAW footage I give them the A camera stuff only, no B or C cameras, audio from the A cam only and since I start with a long form TL it's isn't a big leap to render and burn it. For the reception which in short form edit might be 20 minutes but in long form might be 2 hours is also no big deal to render and burn. Keeps em happy.

[Stephen J. Williams]

Thanks guys for all of the input....

Doug... 35minutes was an exaggeration. It was probably closer to around 20. Deleted scenes are not my bloopers... Just clips that don't build to the story in my timeline. They end up adding up. In my mind it's more valuable then the raw footage. It's been properly treated in post production.

Steve

[Chris Harding]

Hi Guys

What amuses me is that the B&G are highly unlikely to have edit software (or the computer) that will handle HD footage. What I will do if they seriously want some footage to "play" with is give them my rendered MPEG2 video files (My DVD's are menu driven with each event having it's own MPEG2) That way they cannot see any bloopers and also Windows Movie Maker will probably handle the SD clip without any issues too. That usually satisfies any curious clients and they are more than happy and , of course. it's not really raw footage!!
I only supplied one client with the actual tapes when I was still shooting MiniDV and he complained bitterly that there were "wobbly" bits in it. If you explain that there IS a charge as you have to transfer raw footage to multiple DVD's that seems to put them off!!!

Chris

[Doug Bennett]

Most times you say "shortform" edit you raise the question of what happens to the discarded footage.

You have to assure them that all of the footage they want to see is on the DVD.

You can't throw out 30 minutes of speeches from close family and friends simply because it doesn't fit the pacing of yr movie. But you can edit it into a separate chapter. Likewise ceremony, interviews etc. Dancing is the main thing that gets thrown out in my weddings.

The better edit job you do with the dancing the more likely you are to hear "I wish you had included more dancing". To which my reply is "No you don't".

[Chris Davis]

Originally Posted by Chris Harding

Hi Guys

What amuses me is that the B&G are highly unlikely to have edit software (or the computer) that will handle HD footage.

No doubt they are requesting raw footage for archival purposes, and are probably more concerned with what they can do with it in ten to twenty years, not now. In ten years, every B&G will have software and hardware that will handle HD footage - probably on their iPod.

I think you guys are too caught up in "now" and aren't considering how this seemingly useless footage would be cherished in 50 years. Have none of you discovered a lost box of 16mm film in your parents/grandparents attic? Have you not experienced the thrill of seeing just ten seconds of footage of your 30 year old grandfather? I have and it's almost emotionally overwhelming.

You may not consider that fleeting shot of two teenagers dancing to be important, but someday they will be somebody's parent/grandparent and somebody is going to want to see that.

I have a drawer full of tapes from weddings. I'd love to get $150 for each set since they're doing me no good now.

[Danny O'Neill]

Sometimes we get couples asking for the raw footage so we made it a chargeable extra. We provide them with the m2t files straight out of the camera on a hard drive for a hefty charge. we also include the 30day trial version of Vegas you can download from the Sony site. Often these are people who are in the business themselves or who want it just to keep it safe.

Occasionally we get a bride asking for it every second on a million DVD's but we simply refuse to offer this. We dont at any point indicate this is even an option. Sometimes its because the bride believes every last second of their day was the most magical thing in the world. Possibly because the edit looks like this and they think "Hey, I bet every other minute of footage is like this" but of course the edit is nice and polished. No shots of feet or out of focus heads. We try and discourage them from this as we know seeing the footage could ruin their memories of the day. Theres always a relative who is tired and doesnt want to be there who just scowls at the camera ;)

If they pay, they can have it.

[Stephen J. Williams]

Danny...

I agree 100% with what you wrote in your second paragraph.... In the future I will charge money for the raw DVD's. Even-though I have no desire to do it... Hopefully the price will persuade the B&G's not to go ahead with the "IMO" useless footage..

Steve

[Jim Snow]

Originally Posted by Chris Davis

I think you guys are too caught up in "now" and aren't considering how this seemingly useless footage would be cherished in 50 years. Have none of you discovered a lost box of 16mm film in your parents/grandparents attic? Have you not experienced the thrill of seeing just ten seconds of footage of your 30 year old grandfather? I have and it's almost emotionally overwhelming.

You may not consider that fleeting shot of two teenagers dancing to be important, but someday they will be somebody's parent/grandparent and somebody is going to want to see that.

Chris, That is some of the wisest advice ever posted in this forum. We all tend to be self-centric and "now" focused but the video is about "them" - and their posterity. Imagine for example, being able to see a video of your grandmother dancing as a teenager who you only knew in a wheelchair. It would be priceless and precious no matter how much of an "outtake" it was.