Clients Very Disappointed...
 

We just delivered what we thought was quite a good wedding video to some clients, but they have come back with a long list of complaints / changes. It's so frustrating because we spent way more time editing their video than other clients' videos due to problems with the ceremony (an Arabic ceremony - they kept bumping into us as we filmed, requiring us to smoothcam and edit down the ceremony in order to have smooth footage).

Anyway, the main problem seems to be that these clients' expectations do not match what was outlined in the contract.

The finished product in the contract is:
Three Edited Videos:
1 video covers the bride and groom morning preparations and the bride/groom/family meeting.
1 video covers the reception, from the couples' entrance at the reception to when they leave, though the video will not be quite as long as the time from when they arrive to when they leave because we will edit out idle moments, such as when people are eating, when speakers are walking up to the podium, when there's a break in the dances, etc.
1 artistically edited highlight video that draws on the best footage / moments from the day.

The couple loved their highlight video.
However, they had the following complaints about the other videos

1) " The formals are entirely missing- why have they not been included in the video? A few moments in the highlight video does not suffice. I believe they should be included near the end of the "Traditions" chapter, and should capture all the locations we shot in."

- We told them the formals are only used for the highlight video. The 1st video (preparations and family meeting) never mentions formals for that reason.

2) "We were under the impression that all the raw footage would be given to us"
- This is not our practice and not in our contract.

3) "During the ceremony / family meeting, some scenes are missing, such as when we first hugged each other"
- This is because we had just filmed the bride walk down the stairs, and then had to push our way through a crowd of 30 people in the family room in order to get to the front of the room, where the bride & the groom were. If the crowd had moved out of our way, as they did for the b&G, we would have had the shot. Instead we had to fight our way through since no one wanted to move out of our way!

4) "Add more footage of the decor"

5) "Add some more scenes of us travelling from the groom's family's house to the brides"


Now, to be fair, we also made some mistakes, which we'll definitely fix. 1) During the 2 1/2 hour reception dance video (a nightmare to edit!) one of our clips had a "tracking error" message come up. 2) We accidentally omitted to include the slideshow they asked us to put on the disc. 3) They claim much of the dancing / singing is synced to the wrong audio. I used Plural Eyes to sync it, and then double checked it, but we'll review it again. The issue is everything is in Arabic (and we don't speak Arabic). :(

*SIGH*

Not to sound like a bad guy but it sounds to me like your service agreement (contract) might need to be tightened up and at the same time it sounds like there was some miscimmunication between you and your client when they signed up.

The fact that you might have been blocked out on certain shots is beyond your control but this is one thing that can be written out in your contract in the terms and conditions. The formals not being included can also be stated in your contract and like you while I cover it I don't use all of the shots I get from that session.

If the music is wrong then that's something that needs to be fixed but honestly this whole thing sounds like they simply either didn't understand what they were going to get OR they're simply the most picky people in town and are trying to work you for something that they THINK they should get when in fact they got what they were supposed to get.

Sometimes people have a completely different idea of what they are getting than what they are really going to get.

I say try to come to some sort of comprimise with them regarding what you will and will not fix or be reaponsible for and remember you can't please all the of the people all of the time. Sometimes you just gotta move on. (sigh)

Sorry to hear that Kevin. As Don have mentioned a solid signed agreement stating you have full creative control of the shoot and edit would have "saved" you from this horror. This is also why I am a big fan of not giving the clients a draft and if they want any changes. In a culture I am not familiar with I usually do research or ask one of the family members to tell me which parts are really important in the ceremony.

If you can't sync the audio for the dance, use the captured audio from the on camera microphone.

Good luck.

No matter what else happens, stand firm on this one.

Hey Kevin....

I feel you pain a bit. I recently had a client tell me that she liked a trailer/highlight that I put together, but wanted it all to be changed. Ie, new music, more of this, less of that... The video had great reviews on her fb page and has over 215 views as well. Even-though I like working with her and her husband, I was a little taken back by her request.
Sometimes it's disappointing having that feeling that you let someone down by not meeting their vision. But it happens all the time with everyone at least a few times.
Until now I had a weak contract that would leave me meeting every demand of the customer. It honestly was taking a toll on my life. Investing so much time, creating a great video (imo), and then upon delivery having to make several minor adjustments. It really slows down my editing timeline as well when it comes to other clients.

Best of luck.

Steve

Hi Kevin

I feel for you too!! I had a bridezilla back in 2008 that spent 3 FULL days with me (at no cost!!)

Just make sure that your contract gives you full editing control and explain that to the bride. Also I insist on a meeting with the couple to make sure that they at least tell you want they want!! Just for interest my speeches start with the speaker at the podium and end there...and nobody complains!! It's pretty hard to follow people coming up to speak anyway.

Since adding my editorial control portion to the contract I have never had complaints like "but you missed that bit" Explain at the meeting what they will get and also show then some recent samples..that way they know what to expect!!

I find that if you encourage them to find stuff they want to change, then they will go "all out" to find something. I don't even offer changes now (except if I have made an error!!) and brides are more than happy with the final video. They cannot expect a minute by minute coverage of the entire event and that needs to be pointed out to them at the initial meeting!! For what they were asking for you needed a 6 camera team and probably a 6 DVD set so not a single moment was missed. (and a HUGE pile of money from them, of course)

On future jobs, stay tough and tell them what they will get and they usually will realise what they want is totally impractical and will compromise!!

Chris

Also change in your contract that packages don't include 'x' amount of hours of 'COVERAGE.'

Coverage to them means if you're there for 8 hours, they get 8 hours of footage.

Instead, packages include 8 hours of ATTENDANCE. Period.

HUGE DIFFERENCE.

Kevin, my approach is like yours in principle - satisfy the client, but as everybody has said there have to be limits and the place for these is in your contract.

But, expectations can vary widely and are one reason why we only take on Christian or Civil weddings.

This has nothing to do with the faiths themselves but everything to do with my knowledge of the mores, customs and expectations of those potential clients. I freely admit that I am culturally challenged when it comes to programmes for Asian or Jewish clients. For example, I'm told that typical Asian wedding videos often include a great deal of "Bangla" music. For me to pretend that I have any knowledge or appreciation of such music would be fatuous. I hate turning away business but my recommendation to such potential clients is always to seek a programme maker who's familiar with their part of the wedding video market. I'd rather lose a bit of business than a reputation.

A couple of thoughts-

1. Take a step back. There is nothing more frustrating than thinking you've checked a job off the list only to be knocked back to square one. Sometimes it takes me a day or two to take an objective look at the client's requests.

2. As a few people mentioned, customer service is important. But that doesn't always mean doing all the work they request. Sometimes it can be how you talk about their requests. For example, rather than stating that everyone got in your way when trying to get a shot, perhaps saying something like "I can understand that you would be disappointed not to see that moment. There are so many beautiful moments in a wedding, and we capture all that we can, of course we can't be everywhere at once. Did you see X fantastic moment we were able to capture?"

3. Do you read contracts? Most people don't. If there is something important included in your contract, it probably makes sense to be sure you talk about it with the client too. That way there will be no unpleasant surprises.

4. Having said all that, I feel for you! Some couples just won't be happy. For those of us who take pride in our creative work, that is very hard to accept.

Please let us know how this all works out.


Marion

I have a questionnaire that I send to brides and I've recently added this to the end of it (I had a similar problem). my contract includes all of this but I want to make it clear before they sign.

Things we need to prepare for your wedding:

1. the order of service for your ceremony
2. a schedule or timeline of events including speeches for your reception

Things we need to complete your project:

1. a copy of all songs/music you have selected for the day


Things you need to understand about your wedding video coverage

A wedding is a live event and we can't yell 'cut' and run the scene again if a mobile phone goes off or the photographer stands in front of our camera. We use multiple cameras and audio recorders but we can't be responsible for things outside our control.

The ceremony & reception are edited to be an accurate record of the event, we don't usually leave anything out.

The preparation & photo shoot are a summarised version of the day and we try to capture the feel of the day more than everything that happens.

The highlights are a stylistic summary of the day and while you are free to choose the music which will of course effect our edit, we retain creative control of our work.

Once you have received the finished product you have 7 days to nominate any changes. Any errors are fixed free of charge but stylistic/creative changes take time and will be charged at the going rate as per our contract.

Thank you, all. We took a few days to review our footage, and now we're doing what we can to accommodate the client's requests. In the future, I'm going to add a clause in our contract explaining that while we will film and edit to the very best of our abilities, because of the unpredictable nature of live events such as weddings, we cannot be liable if a particular moment is not filmed or not included in the finished video.
This clause may scare some clients away, but the peace of mind for us would be worth it.

Tomorrow we'll send a detailed response to the clients, explaining the changes that we can make. I'll definitely try to take Marion's advice and put a positive spin on things, since there *are* many great moments in the videos. Hopefully the e-mail and revised videos will be positively received. The editing is going to take at least 8 more hours (we've put 6 hours in today...), so we won't get the videos to them until at least a week from now.

I'll let you know how it goes.

Had an Indian bride some time ago with a similar response, she was "under the impression" that they would be able to get a re-edit free of charge, in my case my contract is clear about that but they sometimes try. Eventually she got her video re-edited but at a price, we did waste however a lot of time discussing it as she at first didn't want to pay for it.

I don't like these kind of clients, you can put all in a contract and tell them several times what you can or cannot do and when it's delivery time it's like they never heared you. Once you get into a discussion then they suddenly start complaining about other things which were not metioned before, I always try to find a solution but once in a while you meet people that are never satisfied. In such a case I always point to my contract and name my price for what they request.

I got burned a bit on a Hindu wedding a few years ago. I filmed about 20 hours worth of footage over 3 days at 3 different sites and in 2 different cities (30 miles apart) I spent over 80 hours putting it together.

In the end, the couple and family didn't like it because during the ceremony the wide shot of the stage, was too wide, and I didn't include the very last part of the dinner service. I fixed what I could and made some of their requested re-edits and burned 7 new DVD sets (2 discs each as it was about a 4.5 hour wedding video in the end).

Yeah, at that point I decided that I would only accept traditional Christian weddings from now on.LOL

Oh, and this was an old high school friend of mine whom I gave a mega price break too because she helped get the word out about our company back when we first started 10 years ago.

Anyways, I feel for the OP. It really does suck when you pour your heart and soul, and tons of effort into a project and it doesn't meet the clients expectations. Hopefully this won't happen to you again for a long time.

In 10 years, that was the first time I'd ever had someone who was NOT happy with their video.

For reasons like this I started choosing my clients. There was a time when I would just take any paying gig, but those days are long gone. I tell my clients that there is always someone out there that will fulfill every request on their list and probably for a lot less than me.... But they are paying for the product that I provide.... Not someone elses... My product. It seems to work... I get more respect from my clients, sure I have had a few get turned off by that, but I've had far more respect me more for it and in the end they love me. I don't even let my brides choose their music... If I did, it wouldn't be my product. People don't hire a high end interior decorator just to tell them what THEY want... The higher end the clientel gets the more they seem to just trust you.

The indian wedding I did was a high end wedding which lasted 2 days and still they didn't trust me :)

I actually have the opposite experience, the "higher end" the wedding is the more "wishes they have how it should look according to them.

I see it different, it's not my product, it's theirs.If I put music on the dvd that they like, I know they will already like it just for that reason. You might have a couple that is into heavy metal and you might be a Beethoven fan, I don't see how that would work :)

I have had really good luck creating videos for weddings with planners. Everyone, including me, seems happier in the end. I've considered making it a requirement...

Noa,
The saying is true, "keep doing what you're doing and you'll keep getting what you're getting". Just because a client is Indian doesn't make them high-end. My point is simply, I choose clients... or choose to do business with brides who are only willing to put their complete trust in me. That's it. ... and it works GREAT! In the last 70 weddings or so I have not once had a bride ask me to change the music in her wedding film. They love MY product.

These sorts of things happen and agree that a tight contract will make a difference. However you can still get a PITA client. Sometimes you can sense then prior to the event and others they will come out of the blue.

I had a client who was a challenge - knew it from the onset. She had written a looong email after her completed DVD but when I actually took all the talk out of it, it was only four points. Primarily they were minor and not difficult to fix. My biggest challenge is to step back and try to not take it personal - this has made a difference in how I respond and deal with requests.

For our cultural weddings esp (+ a result of a bad experience), I make sure I have a clear outline of what we spoke about and clarify everything. The same client as above also threw in the "I thought we would get X as extra" after the day. It didn't work and I stood firm from my first contact with her.

There are some that 'negotiate' price both before and after a deal is made. One of the most used stunts after the fact is the "very disappointed" spiel. Then, right after they express their "disappointment", they want to pay you less than agreed - because they are "disappointed". Even in the early stages of discussions with this type of client, you can usually get a sense of what they are like. When you do, run, don't walk away from them. If your need to feed your starving children compels you to do the job anyway, make sure you are paid ALL of your money beforehand. If you don't, don't say you weren't warned. There are people in this wide world of ours that are taught, beginning as a young child, that this is the way you do 'business' - and a wedding video is 'business' too.

Wouldn't you have a good idea of the type of music that would work for the couple from discussing this with them ahead of time? I'm asking because I don't do weddings but have been asked and am contemplating it. But coming from a background with corporate videos and movies where things are very well worked out prior to the shoot, I'm not sure how much is usually done prior to the event with the couple. I know that there are tons of things happening prior to a wedding and I'd imagine it is easy for the B&G to look at coordination of the video details as a low priority.

Thanks,
Garrett

I see it different, it's not my product, it's theirs.If I put music on the dvd that they like, I know they will already like it just for that reason. You might have a couple that is into heavy metal and you might be a Beethoven fan, I don't see how that would work :)[/QUOTE]


I don't think the videographer in question uses music that he personally is a fan of. He probably uses music that works with his style of shooting and editing. I try not to let the bride choose the music either. I'm the biggest Doors fan around and that doesn't mean "Light My Fire" is going to used in their video. I'm going to use songs that work with they way I shoot and edit and it has no bearing on if I'm a fan of that music or not.

Not really , I can't guess what they like hearing and eventhough there are some music pieces that I think would work very well with my edits it can also be that the couple might hate it, that's why I simple ask and then I know that they will like it. For my feeling their choices do not always "fit" but when I play the wedding video and if I see that they enjoy some parts of the video when a certain song plays they choose I know I have done the right thing. It's not about what I want, it's about what the client likes.

Noa, I think there has to be a happy medium. For my videos, it is about what I want. My name goes on it. If I let every bride ruin the video with really bad song choices, I would probably never get referrals. I just turned down a bride that wanted to use Eddie Rabbit and Crystal Gayle songs. I told them no. I chose the songs for their video and they loved it.

In my questionnaire that I send out. I ask them to give me 6 songs to put in there video. Secondly, I ask them "We have a database of songs. Do you give us premission to use our best judgement to choose songs for you if you don't give us songs to use?"

I also don't print there Blu ray until they like the DVD copy first. This gives them the impression that they can make changes, but I rebuttal back with a serious NO unless it's my fault.

Andrew makes a good point about choosing your clients carefully. I now turn down all Indian weddings because they are cheap and a pain in the butt to work with in the end. It's always the parents who call me about my services and that is a red flag, so I decline. Feels good to choose your clients but some people don't have that option.

I also bold all the things in my contract that are a must for them to read. If they don't read it that's not my fault.

I do some corpate work as well and there I don't have to tell my clients that it is all about what I want :) that would surely not be accepted, so I don't see why I should treat my other "wedding" clients any differently?
It's my job to make it work for my client, even if their wishes seem a bit odd, If they like what you did they will spread the word anyway about how good they think you are and that's the best advertising you can get.
That approach has not resulted in any referal losses the past years, on the contrary, referals have been increasing so something must be right.
I think the risk of people not liking the music you choose exists as well because maybe they are polite and don't tell you and behind your back they will tell people that they expected a bit better but you never will know.
At the end it seems to work for you and it also works for me so that's all that matters, right? :)

On that I can agree, I never have any problems with a typical christian wedding but have had some bad experiences with weddings from other cultures/countries. After the last problems I had with that Indian wedding I think I will not accept anymore of those even though I love filming them.

The problem often lies in the difference in culture and the fact that the couple assumes a lot of things as normal because in their country it's considered very common but they don't tell you.

Andrew, how do you turn down clients? I have had several that I knew it might potentially be a problem. They pose silly questions and even asking me what type of limo should they choose (?!).. as I just started, I took every clients on board.. but in the next year or so, I think I will have to start choosing the clients.. but how do you turn down the one you think will be bad for you without being discriminating?

I let my clients know in the consultation that I am interviewing them just as much as they are interviewing me. I let them know that I'm not going to be a fit for every bride and not every bride is going to be a fit for me. I'm not worried about discriminating, if I think there is going to be a problem I simply tell them that there is a good chance they aren't going to be totally happy with my product... leave it at that. It works! Some people are wild about Picasso.. some, not so much. Why would you want to work with someone who isn't in love with your work to begin with? You're only setting yourself up for a major pain in the you know what by taking on any job that comes your way.

Noa,
Divinci painted the Mona Lisa... It's Divinci's work (product) not Mona Lisa's. Consumers commission artists to paint them pictures all the time... the paintings are the work of the artist... not the customer, even if the customer requested the scene in the painting. Why should it be any different with a film. Sure, you're documenting the brides day, but who's the artist hear? You or the bride? If I allowed the bride to control my work I would feel like a camera man and not a filmmaker and my job would get old REAL fast... fortunately my clients trust me and hire me for the artistic decisions I make and it is great! I enjoy what I do so much more and the clients are always happy.

Hey John

Good point actually... what happens if you try to be as non-accommodating as possible and refuse every request and they STILL want you??? Would it be a blemish on your reputation if you said that you don't want to do their wedding?? What's the chance of getting bad-mouthed ???

The only few clients that I met and seemed a little over-demanding or wanting things I wasn't prepared to do (we want to instruct during the editing!!!!) luckily ended up never booking me thank goodness!!

Andrew?? my only real concern is that after they say "You are perfect for us, we love your work etc etc", how would they react if you say to them "I don't want to shoot your wedding!!" Is there a nice way to turn clients down without hurting their feelings and/or damaging your reputation???

Chris

"As we sit here thru this interview process it occurs to me that we may not be a good fit for you and here's why....(explain in simple terms the points that do not match to you or your style, IE; control over editing, control over whatever, we want this, we want that...),,, let me offer a few names of other people I know that might be able to help you out"

Now at this point if they really want to use you after you have told them that you aren't a good fit in most cases (at least in my experience) people will realize they are asking you to change so much that you are no longer you and will come down off many of those points. Some points can be comprimised, some can not. For those that can not be then you must stand your ground. For instance, they DO NOT get control or input over the edit process. PERIOD. If they have a problem with that then you MUST walk away. RAW footage on the other hand, well, I'd hate to lose a job that could put a couple of grand in my bank account because of RAW footage and putting a few tapes to DVD with a disclaimer on it and tossing it in if need be to satisfy the client and either get the job or keep them happy. Again, there are so many variables that there is no one right answer. I have no problem turning down a client if I feel they are being unreasonable in things they are asking for but also keep in mind many ask simply because they are told to in the bridal magazines they read. When we discuss the T&C of my agreement and settle on the coverage many if not most time people realize that they don't need to worry about the things they were worried about before and they are hiring a professional who will do the job as described in the agreement.
If at that time they still have doubt, I'll walk away. I don't need grief and stress anymore but thats just me.
Believe me I

That is so true. Sometimes you can actually tell they are reading the 'questions' verbatim from the article they read.

I met with a couple about 2 years ago. The bride was lovely. The groom was 100% ass__le! Argumentative, sour-faced, rude, bad tempered advertising agency exec. Trouble written all over him. I showed them a few demos then hurried them out the door.

2 days later I got an email from her wanting to book me.

I replied:

"Hi Anna, Good to meet you both as well. You've chosen beautiful locations, a great time of the year, and are planning well in advance so you are settings yourselves up nicely for an awesome day. In creating the videos that you viewed here on Monday, one of the most important ingredients is fantastic rapport, and knowing everyone will be comfortable working together in a high pressure situation. I didn't feel on the same wavelength at all with Jeff and was out of my comfort zone with what he was asking me to provide. Being both creative types we probably butted heads a little. Unfortunately I feel that no matter what is eventually decided, this point would remain a source of unnecessary tension for both of us which would jeopardise your total enjoyment on the day, and my passion to give 100% in the filming and editing process. I would recommend going to see 2 other videographers who have an excellent standard of work and may be less concerned with providing master tapes and other requests for Jeff.

Sorry about this outcome but I feel you both deserve absolute agreement with photographer, videographer, celebrant etc in every aspect of your requirements and expectations to make your wedding day as special as it can, and will be."

They ended up wasting several hours booking and negiotiating terms with the "competition", and the wedding was eventually cancelled 10 days from the wedding day as the couple split up. He is currently dragging the "competition" through the court system for the return of $200 deposit.

I think your career is defined strongly on the clients you have the wisdom to NOT take on.

Although she may not realize it yet, she is very fortunate. Her life would have been hell with someone like that.

This is one of the wisest things ever written in this great forum.

Amen John... Amen.

I know after reading a lot of these posts, that most people do. I had asked for a very basic deal. I just wanted to guy to shoot all day, about a 10 hour day, with breaks in between for meals and downtime. And all I really wanted was the raw footage because I wanted to see all that was captured that i couldn't be a part of since the entire wedding day is so full of things happening.

Mine was an Indian wedding. We as brides and even grooms want to relive each and every moment. And 10 hours of work didn't mean 10 hours of shooting. All in all, there were about 3 hours of shooting and the videographer was nice enough to give me 3 DVDs, one for the wedding, one for guests/greetings/randomg stuff and the third for the reception. He added a nice menu to each DVD, but I was happy with that. But again, that was the first time I hired a videographer for such an event, so I didn't expect the moon, but I expected lasting memories to be captured. As many as possible. :-)

And after seeing what my videographer did as a basic package, I decided to do this myself.

OK, nothing wrong with that,
and how is it going?

Nothing wrong Buba - except that a CCTV tape isn't a video programme.

If a fundamentally unedited record of the the event is what Raji's clients want - that's their pick, and no-one would gainsay him for fulfilling a market need.

However, it would be wrong to confuse that end product with a professional video programme.

Hi Philip

Hope you have a great 2011 BTW!!!

It seems that a lot of ethnic weddings require a CCTV style program. I'm still fighting with my Muslim bride who booked a "Western Wedding Package" and still complained bitterly that I missed parts of the reception (if I was sitting down, she was on my back). I shot onto 5 SDHC cards for her (usually only use two) but it seems if you miss just 5 minutes of the dancing, the wedding is ruined !!! Despite getting double what she asked for..I have not been paid (I did a similar one last year and wasn't paid the final amount for that either)

I would say the only way to do these is with about 3 cam operators working in shifts and providing a real-time record of the day. No editing, no creativity!!!!

Not my cuppa tea at all so in 2011, I will be refusing (very politely!!!) all ethnic events and leave them to those who are prepared to shoot 12 hours non-stop!!

I don't think most videographers realise how different the expectations are from ethnic couples and despite living in a Western Country they still need to preserve their traditions. If you do take on an ethnic shoot, however Westernised the couple may seem, be prepared to shoot everything and all night!!

Chris

Chris, and of course the same good wishes to you - except that even as I write in my dressing gown whilst the kettle boils for my first cup of tea for the day, you'll be getting ready to celebrate another tick on the slate of time. Actually, like many who've lived in different time zones, I find New Year quite a depressing time - it's so artificial, a passing moment in the revolution of our globe. Unlike other festivals, which merely start at the moment, NY is the moment. Anyway, as our pals on the West Coast still haven't worn off last night's hangover and my son in HKG is roughly halfway between you and me, I wish everybody great success, happiness and peace in 2011.

But to the subject. At the only ethnic wedding with which I've had a problem, it wasn't the Indian bride or her English husband but the bride's parents. Both were doctors, very personable people who'd lived in the UK for a long time. It was they whom we'd upset - and "we" means the us, production company, and her daughter who'd been very clear from the outset that she wanted a "Western" wedding video. It was the daughter who'd decided (in writing) when we were to finish - and thus miss the Indian dancing; it was the daughter who'd decided she didn't want hours of the "meet and greet" cocktail session - which was the part the parents wanted to extend to "show the family in India how big the wedding was".

To her credit, the daughter stood her ground over her decisions and the situation ended satisfactorily and we were able to agree a modest additional fee for the third edit - the parents had difficulty in understanding that approvals are definite.

In contrast last summer we recorded a delightful Nigerian/English wedding which was a simple delight.

Perhaps as important for us as creatives, the traditional dress at both weddings added a riot of colour and visual excitement not even the most extrovert of European weddings achieve.

Finally, I wonder if the net of our forum, (sorry Chris's forum), falls wide enough to catch the views and experiences of local video programme makers working abroad who are commissioned to produce "Western" weddings on their home turf. From what I've learned here it might be interesting.