"Our video budget depends on what's left after we hire our photographer ..."
 

How many of you guys have experienced / heard this before? A couple of prospects we met this year stated this during our meeting even after being impressed with our work...even after trying to seek a reasonable compromise, i finally had to refuse the jobs. fortunately we have the privilege of refusing clients given that we can only do 10 weddings a year..... I wonder though how much longer do video have to be in the "pricing mercy" of photographers?

got an email 3 minutes ago from a bride stating this..

We used to get something like :

"we spent so much on our photographers that we haven't got much left for our video"

but we don't get those anymore. We even sometimes get something like this:

Us: "Have you got your photographer yet?"
couple: "Not yet"
Us: "Do you want us to recommend you some?"
couple: "yes sure but we dont want to spend a lot on photography.. videography is more important for us"

so, dont worry. things are changing. There are still people who are not valuing videography as much but there are also people who thinks otherwise. Just keep on doing great work and results will come by itself

My 2 cents :)

Santo

Allow me to interject more optimism.

Increasingly, I see my clients have compromised on the photography budget. I see more and more people referred to me placing a greater value on video. And going back to last year, I think the last 6 or 7 weddings I did in 2010, I think all those photographers were in the $1K range - my prices start at $2500.

Kren, take heart. Sometimes it can be really tough to be in our industry, but times are definitely changing. How long until we're at the forefront of the average bride's mind? Hard to say, but I think we've got another 10 years or so. The industry has changed drastically in the past decade but it's going to take a generation for everyone else to appreciate that. Hang in there. It gets better every day.

On one of my wedding job I have a couple who don't even have a photographer at all.. and on another wedding I've been, they even had 2 videographers (I was tagging along) and no photographer at all!

So I agree, the industry is changing thanks to the wonderful videographers around who have started to change the perspective of a wedding video. I am starting to meet some couple who appreciated video much more than I would've thought.

In the past 6 months I have received inquiries straight after their engagement and not even a date set, when I asked have you looked at a venue,photog etc... they haven't even looked at that but came to me first asking and repeating scenarios have happened.

I think this proves that things are changing big time, but you do need to target your business at the type of clients you want.

It also really depends when they have come across your work, sometimes it is too late and they want the video but they have already way over spent and just contacting you just in case they can squeeze it in. In previous years it was just an after thought but now couples are starting to get the "Oh I am going to miss out" mentality about video which is a big change from what it was thought of as something extra to get rather then a need to get. And some will stretch their budget some wont..which is fine thats the way it works.

I think if you get a comment like that, I would say no as their priority is not on video and do not value it as much as photo which in turn wouldn't be the ideal client.

Attitudes are definitely changing. And it's the work of higher end shooters that are pushing the change. I aspire to this myself, yet have a ways to go.

One big advantage to doing (higher end) bridal shows is that brides tend to plan waaay ahead. So it gives them a chance to look at options before committing big bucks to stills and having little left for motion.

It is not changing in England, i have just lost 4 video jobs with the bride saying we have no budget left after booking the photographer, that why i have gone into photography to give both options, so if im not booked on the friday or saturday one week then i will take a photography order, hope i can mix the two...

I believe things are changing, were getting to work with some of our fav togs this year as couples came to us first.

Most couples dont put any value in the video at all, it really a nice to have if there is any budget left. But thats because the work out there generally pushed forward that idea. We didnt have a video when we got married because wedding videos were cheesy and boring.

We spend a lot of time trying to create a buzz with brides about the wedding film so it now becomes a must have.

I understand this can be frustrating and I have heard it a few times recently. However, remember this, not all brides are a good fit for you. If a bride comes to you and says that video is just an after thought or nice to have, then she probably doesn't value your video that much.

With that said, you can approach this two ways. You can try to show her the value of video and your product without sounding like a rambler or bragging or you can simply accept that this bride is not a good fit for your company and move along. Sometimes it is better to turn down a client than deal with the headache it may bring for a few measly dollars.

Be confident in your product and aim for those that value your product. It really feels good to have a bride call you and want to book you before she has even settled on a venue. Now thats feeling valued.

I'm in the same situation Steve. It looks like England are worth affected by economic downfall...So I'm starting to offer my photography service as well, but still prefer my video service.

Wedding Videos London | Wedding Videos Essex | Wedding Videos Surrey from YouMyWorld Productions

I think the real issue is the expectations of the bride and her family. There is the long standing tradition of the wedding photo being displayed prominently in the home, and often almost a "shrine" to the wedding complete with photo album being set up in a nook or cranny. Seems like its part of the nesting process that occurs naturally for most. They have no desire to have monitor set up there displaying moving images. Many years down the road, the video with people live and moving will be more interesting probably, but that doesn't fit the brides present percieved need.

Have you guys ever thought of partnering up with a Photographer. I use to offer video only and I was getting killed by Studios who offers both. I always sell it as a package and it saves the Bride time dealing with 2 separate studios. 90% of my bookings are for Photo/Video package.

My 2 cents.

That's what our studio did, back in the day. We shared our
downtown space with one of the best wedding photographers
in town. That arrangement brought in almost more work than
we could handle.

I like the idea of partnering with a photographer, but statistics show that only 30% of brides book a videographer and around 95% book a photographer. Do you all currently operating with a photo/video package find yourselves doing less bookings than the photographer? Do you operate only with the photographer or also take bookings under a separate name from the photographer?

I guess I am just really curious how you have found a way to make a photo/video package work. Sorry if this hijacks the thread, I hope it does not.

Videographers and photographers dont work in england as a partnership unless you really know them as friends. I think they see each other as a threat. Out of 58 wedding films i have worked with one photographer who was brilliant, the rest think your not guna get the first shot which i dont want anyway cause i want real time filming not some staged shot that is cheesy...My wife has a wedding shop and we have tried to link with photographers but it dont work, we have put links on to our website for their buisness but nothing in return...Now i have gone into photography i can see both sides of the day, on my first shoot, i left the bride and groom to do almost anything they want without staging shots, only a couple of shots, as ive seen photographers even tell the bride and groom when to drink walk talk smile eat, some are rubbish some are good, me ive now fed of them all and hope to fill in, but i wont do the video and photos together, only one or the other. I am now finding for sure clients want to sort out their photographer first, video last if money left... its tradition!!! for sure 95% here in england, i hope it changes cause i love filming, im more creative/cinematic. steve

Steve my experience is the opposite. And we offer a combined photo/video package with an established photographer. Everyone's feeling the recession but that shouldn't affect your marketing.

Hi Phillip yes good point but rather than rely on someone else i have dipped into the stills myself, rather than not give a 100% job i will only do video or photography on seperate days, that is as im training people up to do the films my way then i can dip in the full package.. if that makes sense... steve
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Steve, I think we're not a million miles apart - our photog takes pictures the way I'd like to and he feels pretty much the same about video. The important thing is to emphasise to the client that we're not doing the two skills ourselves. Mind you, perhaps as a man I'm not innately equipped for multi-tasking!

Yes my wife keeps telling me hahaha... Hows it going Phil? i seem to have dipped the last month i have lots of bookings from before xmas for this year but its just stopped dead, although i do seem to be booking for 2012. I wish i could go upmarket, but where i live seems to dictate, people always asking how much can i do it for??? people that are slightly dearer than me in the area are very slow but the cheaper end ive lost out to three the past couple of months someone doing it for £200 pound less than me so god knows how much he is charging, as i thought i was affordable!!! steve

Why does your area be a limitation? We've only filmed 2 wedidngs in our area, most our work comes from Hertfordshire and Essex. If we only looked for work nearby we would be very much out of business by now.

Branding and how you present yourself is important. I am no expert by any means but the text speak in your company name lends itself to a particular market. Does your website appeal to brides? Not a criticism, just something to consider if you are after changing your demographic.

The day our prices went over £1000 everything changed. Previous marketing didnt work, the website design wasnt working, the way we dealt with our couples. The reason was our market changed drastically and we had to rethink everything. Do you advertise on Visual Bride? This used to be good for us when we were sub £1k.

Hi Danny i cant fugure out why i am stuck in the middle range i advertise on google every other month, 50 mile radious of liverpool, and have only ever done one film outside liverpool in macclesfield? word and mouth that one? Are you saying you are over the 1000k ,mark or under? if over how did you implement that, do you advertise danny? what sites? steve

Photo/Video Package
 

I just had a meeting with a studio, I am shooting a wedding for them this Saturday. They use to offer Photography only now they have combined Video to go along with it. They have 4 weddings this Saturday ( Video/Photo Package) and this season they have 112 weddings booked. That being said, he told me that combining both services doubled their business. One stop shop for the busy bride.

PS. They are not cheap either, $ 6K for a package.

Good shout maybe i will try to look for a decent photographer or i may just book the full video/photography package. i said i was going to do one or the other but may change my mind

This is true for us as well. We had many clients came and booked us first before booking a photographer, and sometimes even before booking a venue. A few clients even went the mile of changing their wedding to have us cover their event.

Hope this is the trend that ppl who are producing good/meaningful work seeing in the industry. We've made some good progress in grabbing some of the attention (and money) the photographers had all these years. Still there are ways to go.

This is often the belief of photographers, we do great stills then we can do great videos too - no I don't think so.

I think many are seeing the writing on the wall for stills as a stand-alone product, and DSLR gives them a false sense of security that shooting video IS just like shooting stills - they can relate to that. Not until they find that producing a video involves a lot more than the photoshopping equivalent of sticking a whole bunch of pictures together in quick succession.

A few photogs I've spoken too recently said similar things and have admitted it was the editing which made them think again.

Simply, the event photo portfolio consists of "snapshots" with a very narrow conceptual timeline. Ask them to tell a story or add in structured sequences and they've got a problem.

Yes, some have successfully transitioned but I bet it's those with the video background into stills, not the other way around.

Just a thought :)

Claire, sorry if I have confused you, the Studio offers a Video/Photo package, meaning they hire a Videographer to do their video and a photographer to do stills. The meeting made me look at my business strategy, last year I did 30 packages, I would love to do a 100.

Upset just now!!
 

I was booked for a wedding to do video in the Spring time. They chose my mid package which is about $1,500......HOWEVER..........yesterday I got an email from the couple telling me that they wanted to cancel my services because they wanted to use that money to hire a second Photographer in addition to their OVERPRICED $7,000 out-of-town Photographer. Give me a #$%& break! The $7,000 photographer doesn't have a second shooter?!? I asked what the reason was, and they said because its gonna be a huge wedding, and they don't want to miss a thing........and that video was just an afterthought. Wow people!

I am not in the wedding videography game - but I would have thought that the internet would be a huge boon for you guys, compared to a still photographer.

Whereas stills photographers big advantage is that they can go to high quality print, this is probably happening less and less while the rest of the elements of high quality still photography remain relatively unchanged by the web.

The fact that wedding videos can now be distributed online and thus very easily shown to family and friends all around the world whereas before sending out DVDs etc would have been considerably more hassle must make it a positive growth area for you guys.

Just curious if this is a growing selling point when competing/comparing your services against still photographers?

Craig, I'm not sure I'd phrase it as clear cut or as comprehensively as you do but there's much in what you write.

For example we don't put video on the web because no web video does justice to our work, just as it can't do justice to the top end photographer's work. That doesn't mean we're anti-web, far from it. I think it's our most potent advertising and promotional medium and to that end we've reduced our wedding fair attendance to just the most important ones and our print advertising to nil. Of course things improve all the time and I confess that it's already reached the point where most people don't caption their vimeo clips "web quality only" and sooner or later I shall be seduced into showing clips.

I disagree with your contention that photography has stood still. If it has it's only because the photographers and their market (for we all have to develop our markets) have allowed it to be. I wrote somewhere else recently that I'm surprised there isn't an app for an iPad that allows photographers to produce iPad wedding albums replete with music and sound recorded of the key moments eg the vows, speeches etc. (My photographer pal will laugh when he reads this - me using terms like app and iPad like I knew what I was talking about!)

Kelly, I'm appalled - no deposit in the world is enough to sweeten that sort of behaviour.

Although I can show a quick 4 minute video clip online, it's still not comparable to seeing the entire DVD chaptered menu that I can show on a 55 inch monitor.

Thought #1 -
WHEW, dondged a bullet on that one... don't need the potential bald spots!

Thought #2 -
Ask them if they'd rather have 30 frames per second with sound (that might just catch most everything?), or 5-10 frames here and there... with a "budget photog", that should be an extra 100-200 shots, or about 1-4 seconds worth of video...

Thought #3 -
And I suppose they want their deposit back... hope your contract specified "deposits not refundable, as it retains your specific date, and we cannot book other clients once you've signed your CONTRACT".

Insane. Philip - brides want to see your work..... NOW! Get some demos on your website! Now. No excuses.

The problem for any video not just wedding video has been that the physical product just hasn't been very compelling. Shiny disks have replaced VHS tape but even in a nice box they are a bit ho hum. Photographers can offer a wide selection of albums & different sized prints but most importantly they can all be viewed without any special equipment. The Internet, mobile devices (phones, iPad etc) are now enabling any video to be available anywhere at any time as the special equipment is all around us & not so special any more.

Such a dated view. I mean 720/704x480 on a 55 inch 1080P screen looks good? Even upscaling doesn't do that justice.

For the negligible price difference, why aren't you also chaptering to Blu-ray?

On YouTube, 720P is available for a 10 minute free demo!

Why invest all that money in 1080P video cameras and then commit the sin of putting it all on DVD instead of Blu-ray? As an amateur, if there's anything I want to really keep, it's on both media, to preserve the image resolution as well as the playing options.

Craig, I hope you did get a deposit for that wedding. I usually charge a 25% non-refundable fee to hold the date. They are being rude by telling you up front why the canceled on you. No sugar coating whatsoever. Unless the photographer is Gene Higa, $7K is a lot of money, and he usually have a 2nd shooter in tow.

Total agreement John. If "it does no justice to our work" was an empirical truth for every videographer, would anyone on planet earth agree with your statement after viewing Jason Magbanua's video blog?? I think not. You can look at look at Jason's videos on the web and make a boat load of conclusions regarding style, expertise, and talent. Despite the web presentation (which i think is very good), all of those conclusions are overwhelmingly positive.

No video on-line may cause Brides to draw a negative conclusion ...if they even bother to dig far enough and make the extra effort to see it! I bet more than 75% of brides that click on your site, see no video, then just move on the the videographer that does show video. In her mind, she just saved herself a bunch of time. :)

Brides aren't asking for Blu Ray. I'm booked every weekend and I'm the most expensive 1 man show in the area.

Michael (and Phil too) -

Technology moves forward - you either move with it, or become irrelevant, maybe not now, but over time...

The options to display your work over the web may not be "perfect", but there are ways to put up HD samples that will "show" enough to get the calls coming in so you can show your best work. Short attention span theater it is, but if you can "sell the sizzle", it should draw in potential clients.

As far as "demand" for BR, it's time to deal with the changeover - you can't buy an SD TV... HDTV is IT.

BR players (and burners, since you'll need one) have broken the $100 mark rather vigorously - I'm not sure whether you'll be able to buy a "DVD" player for much longer, the economics are rapidly shifting to favor a BR that also plays DVD's while upconverting, offering streaming, etc...

BR movies are already coming up at pricing equal to DVD... and they DO look better, especially since they likely are now being shown on a large HDTV screen. The customer expectations will be higher, even if they are absolutely clueless as to the technology (which I find is actually pretty common). You don't want to be the guy demo'ing fuzzy video...

I only offer this as a suggestion, that this year is the year the technology is becoming too cheap to NOT make the investment, even if you've held back (as I have!).