New to weddings - On a Budget - Thoughts and Suggestions needed
 

Hi all,

Bear with me, this might be a long post.

First off, I've spent the last few days lurking about the forums and reading lots of threads. Great place you have here and very informative.

After flirting with the idea of low-end documentary film-making (I shot a few things on Canon point and shoots that I was happy with but they, of course, didn't look professional) and with the people I made the low-end stuff for happy with the product I thought I could step up my game a bit. I purchased the Canon T2i mainly because of the high quality videos I'd seen online, ease of use (as I am still new to DSLR) and the fact that it could attach an external mic. My sister will be getting married at the end of the summer and asked me to shoot her wedding. I thought this would be the perfect chance to make something that looks better then my previous work...

...however, the catch...is that I don't have the $$$ to step-up my game as of yet to the level of professionalism I have seen on some videographers sites...

So, that said, I have been researching and putting together a basic kit that I wanted to get some comments on.

1) SOUND: I knew the mic on the Canon wasn't going to cut it so my original intent was to pick up a RODE Shotgun mic (Rode Microphones Video Mic Condenser Microphone Directional Microphones VM - Vistek Canada Product Detail). After posting on another forum, people suggested me away from that mic and towards a ZOOM H4n Handy Recorder (Zoom H4Next Handy Recorder Microphones - Vistek Canada Product Detail). Though it got me rethinking that I should get something that didn't have to stay attached to the camera restricting sound mobility, that recorder was out of my budget range. I then discovered the Zoom H1n ( ) which WAS in my budget. In fact, I could get TWO of them for less then the H4n. Thus be able to record from two different places or pop the records into pockets and LAV mic Bride and Groom. Seemed like more options. The sound quality seemed alright to me from Youtube vids. Their reception is going to be outside so I thought I'd pick up a $14 Furryhead windsock (http://furryheadwindscreens.com/product.php?id_product=12) to cut out wind noise...again, Youtube tests looked great.
NOTE: I could use a cheap suggestion on what can be used to attach the ZOOM to the hotshoe on the camera.
NOTE 2: I am also thinking now that it is still cheaper to get one Zoom H1 and the Rode Shotgun mic then one Zoom H4n but unsure if I need the Rode mic and the quality of it for what I would be using it for. Thoughts?

2) SLIDER: Up until last week, I had no idea these existed. I saw videos online with wonderful reveal shots and knew I wanted to create some of those. This lead me to the Glidetrack Shooter (http://www.glidetrack.com/glidetrack-shooter-sd.html) which, sadly, became out of my budget when factoring in shipping costs from overseas. After pecking around some more I found the IndiSliderMini (indiSYSTEM - indiSLIDERmini) which, for $200 less, would do the trick AND it includes a pistol ball grip. I would have had to purchase some kind of mount for the Glidetrack so with the IndiSlider coming with one it saves me $$$.
NOTE: Also entertaining the Micro Motion Slider (Micro Motion Slider Camera Slider) with legs.
Of course, there is no shoulder mount like the Shooter...which brings me to:

3) SHOULDER SUPPORT: The Cowboy Studio Shoulder pad... seemed like a good buy for the price:
4) TRIPOD: The current tripod I have is very low end. Though compact, the legs are not sturdy and would probably wobble with the IndiSlider on it. Any suggestions on a good tripod (which can shoot both horizontal and vertical photos) in the $100 range? Bonus points if it has a detachable head. :p

5) EDITING: I have Sony Vegas with Magic Bullet Looks.

6) LENSES: Adding this last because purchasing new lenses is really out of my budget range but I have the kit lens for the Canon and the 55mm-250 IS lens.

Okay, so those of you still with me after that long post any thoughts, comments and suggestions are much appreciated.

Cheers,
Rob

Re: New to weddings - On a Budget - Thoughts and Suggestions needed
 

If it was me, I would ask my sister to chip in some money for equipment YOU NEED to tape her wedding. Even if she chips in 300 bucks, she'd still be saving tons of money and you're going to be spending tens of hours on this...which is a whole lot more than any other person will be spending n their wedding gift.

Take that 300 and take your money and buy some decent stuff. Anything cheap will just leave you frustrated and you'll just go out and buy the right stuff later on.

For now, I'd forget about the slider and invest more into the audio.

Your sister(or anyone else) won't care about the cool reveal shot if all your audio sounds horrible, people are more likely to turn off something that sounds terrible than looks terrible.

Re: New to weddings - On a Budget - Thoughts and Suggestions needed
 

I would say your on the right track, 2 x h1 zooms is fine, dont bother with the covers they are only cheap fur just get some fur from a cast of somewhere get your mam to sew up around the mic and fit, put one on a little mini tripod next to the vicar and bride and groom in church, one in and around nearby and use your rode on the cam sync in post, get the canon 50mm 1.8 prime cheap or a used 30mm 1.4 and use the kit lens. zoom with your feet in church.
tripod needed get a velbon dv-7000 £65 new of amazon!! reduced great price. get monopod with fluid head instead of shoulder support or also if you have not much money try a neck brace of e-bay £9.99 not many people use them but they are great, it rests on your chest right hand on camera left hand to adjust and use your chest for rest, breath in when filming and hold, (you may see movement breathing fast and hard). forget the slider no time, forget the glidecam or if you want similar to glidecam, hold the tripod near the top and walk slow its the same, get cheap lcd viewmagnifier of e-bay £35 pound, theres loads around, forget colour correcting just get your white balance right, your shutter speed at 1/60, iso keep at 400 till night dont go more than 1600 at night. Think ahead all the time, no cheesy shots, no talking to guests, dress right, no swearing, Get there frame set fire, enjoy its fun if its all right,, its a b.......d if all goes wrong. steve

Re: New to weddings - On a Budget - Thoughts and Suggestions needed
 

I like almost everything Steve suggested except the Canon 50mm f1.8 which is a fine lens for the money but the short focus ring travel is very chalenging for pulling focus.
Instead I suggest a used MF 50mm 1.4 or 1.7 off ebay ($50-100). Almost anything except CanonFD and Minolta MD mount will work.

You can also get a cheap Russian 16mm 2.8 Zenitar lens for your wide angle low light shots.

If the ceremony is outside and in daytime, you will have no problem with the lenses you already have.
At the reception though you will probably need faster lenses like the ones mentioned.

If you can strech your budget a bit you can also get one or two Panasonic TA1 pocket cameras ($100/ea) as b-role cameras for an alternative view and back-up. These will only be fine as long as the light levels are high enough. You can try them at the reception too but chances are they are not going to be any good in low light.

Re: New to weddings - On a Budget - Thoughts and Suggestions needed
 

extra batteries and cards.

Re: New to weddings - On a Budget - Thoughts and Suggestions needed
 

I would suggest you ask her for a few hundred bucks, rent some nice gear for the day, and purchase it later.

Things like cards are definitely needed, but batteries, lenses, etc. can be rented for such a low price that it makes no sense to blow all the money she gives you on one lens when you can have a bunch to play with that will be much higher than the cheaper lens in terms of IQ, bokeh, sharpness, etc.

Renting is a great option for a new wedding shooter who wants to get great IQ out of the box.

Have fun and good luck!

Re: New to weddings - On a Budget - Thoughts and Suggestions needed
 

On Sister chipping in: Won't happen. This is my wedding present to her and, besides, I will need to equipment for future shoots anyway.

On the Slider: You know, I've sort of fallen for those cool reveal shots and have planned a few short film shoots in the future with slider in mind (ie: local cemetery slide across gravesites). Of course, this is indeed one of the things that can be omitted but at under $200 CDN WITH the pistol Grip (which I was interested in anyway) I've sort of been taken by some of the wedding shots I've seen with it used by others. But, yes, I understand of all items listed this one that could be removed. I do, however, see a lot of use out of in the future and thought it would give my sister's vid and, also, my first "showcase" vid a more professional look.

On Tripod: Doesn't seem like that Velbon tripod is available in Canada.

On Audio: So, would you suggest TWO H1 Handy records (with one attached to the camera and the other elsewhere) would be a better bet then 1 H1 and 1 RODE Shotgun mic? My thought was to place one H1 on my cheapy tripod between bride/groom/priest. To me, though, in looking at some Youtube vids, the RODE MIC though does make a difference over the Canon mic on the camera doesn't seem to make much of a difference OVER the ZOOM H1 which was why it seemed to make more financial sense to purchase two of them instead of the RODE or even 1 H1 ZOOM and one RODE.
NOTE: I just read that the H1 can also feed audio audio onto the memory card thus not having to sync the audio later in post. That's a plus but unsure what the recording quality would be there though, again, online clips look good. Thoughts?

On Lens: Okay, bear with me again. I am knew to DSLR and the ability to use different lenses. As stated, it was not my intent to purchase any at this time as I already have two and practically no additional equipment otherwise. What would the Canon 50mm mentioned do for me that the 18mm-55 I current have not?

On the windsock: Sadly, no fur in the family to cut up for a sock. :p But I am certainly open to suggestions on a make your own deal for the H1 mics. I should have also noted that they reception will be by the beach outside and could be windy. The tests with that Furryhead on Youtube made the wind virtually silent.

On Should mounts: I'm not quite understanding the monopod suggestion. At $35 the Cowboy support (though seemingly flimsy) seemed like a nice bargain according to some of the reviews. But, even more so then the slider for me, this is a possibility of omitting in purchasing at this time but I am certainly open to low cost alternatives.

Thanks all for the answers so far. Much appreciated.

Re: New to weddings - On a Budget - Thoughts and Suggestions needed
 

1. Ok the slider you must have, i did and have,, two angle iron half inch or one inch welded together either end with plates with holes in for tripod fitment, you could have one in the middle as well, go to wallmart (our asda) and buy a small skate board with the wheels with the wheel unit. take the wooden board of the wheel units and make a metal plate drill holes and fit to wheels using same nuts. get a decent tripod head of e-bay and theres your slider. or there are some guys on you tube make sliders with water guttering from a builders/plumbers yard... check out you tube...
2.Tripod are you sure these not in your area, if not get the 6000 one...

3.Just use one h1 zoom and buy the cover the one you said been tested, near the bride and groom all the time.
4. The lens Spiros mentioned will give you better lighting inside for the reception and church as it is a fast prime lens better glass more light, the kit lens has a softer image and not the best on low light or in general, but ok outside in good light. Also it will give good portrait shots with a nice blurred background, as i presume you got the dslr for that look anyway? ye?
5.The cowboy support is ok i suppose but just tryin to save you money with the neck brace, if you get the cowboy you will defo need the magnifier for the viewfinder.... oh and micheals right extra and two of everything and extra cards as they dont last long pal.. or like randy says rent everything but if you want to do another one then thats a waste ... steve

Re: New to weddings - On a Budget - Thoughts and Suggestions needed
 

James the kit lens and the 55-250 IS are fine as long as there is enough light.
I guess the ceremony is going to be outside in daylight so there is not going to be any problem there.
However if the reception is indoors or (most likely) at night you will need lenses with a maximum aperture of 2.8 or lower.
Your cheapest options are used manual focus lenses with adapters.

A 50mm f1.4-1.7 will cost you around $50-100 but it may not be wide enough.
For a cheap wide angle I suggested the 16mm f2.8 Russian fisheye that you can find on ebay at around $180.
Other options cost a lot more than that.

I also suggest that you save some money doing some DIY job on the slider. You can buy a descent slider later on when you have the funds,

The monopod is the most valuable tool for shooting a wedding. Much better than a shoulder mount most of the times.

The viewfinder like Steve said is also a must have IMHO.

Don't underestimate the little pocket cameras I suggested as b-role cameras. Get at least one, it's only $100.

Re: New to weddings - On a Budget - Thoughts and Suggestions needed
 

+ 2 spiros!!

Re: New to weddings - On a Budget - Thoughts and Suggestions needed
 

I'd suggest hunting the used route first. You can always walk into somewhere and plunk down the list price if you don't find a used one by then.

Your H1 would be kinda bulky to stick in a pocket, look for a Yamaha Pocketrak CX used and add a new Giant Squid lav mic to that. Then put those on the groom and get the Rode VM for your camera. With the new Rode VM Pro out or coming out, you probably could find a mint regular VM and save some cash there too.

Lenses are your most needed items, concentrate there first. The go to the audio, then the rest and make the slider last.

I'd look at various ways to stabilize the cam and see which you like and others suggest and why they suggest that way too. You can go shoulder, or monopod, or halo rig or tripod or steadicam or a bunch of others ways too.

Just remember the most expensive gear you will ever own is the gear you buy and never use because you find out you hate it !!!

Re: New to weddings - On a Budget - Thoughts and Suggestions needed
 

Robert, think a bit more like an investor. You want to step up your game like you said in your first post right? You can get the BEST glass for minimal cost rather than buy so-so glass. You need it for future shoots? Well great. Rent until you've made enough from the gigs to purchase your own equipment and the best glass rather than have it sit in a bag until your future shoots come up. It makes zero sense to buy so-so lenses when you can get the best stuff. A 70-200 F/4 IS is $1,000. You would have to rent it out 10-15 times in order for you to break even. In those 10-15 jobs, you can make the money to purchase one if you make yourself $300-$500 profit, on top of the fact that you're shooting with better glass so your imagery is improved (which can lead to stronger demo footage then which leads to attracting clientele willing to pay more money). Why shoot with cheaper glass when you can get the best stuff and have great looking imagery immediately? If its your gift to her, throw a couple hundred at a rental house. Seriously, some lenses are $15 a day. If you rent 5 lenses, thats still under $100 for GREAT glass. Think about it rather than having to "own" it. I sold off lots of my glass during the off season as it was just sitting, I only used 2 of my primary lenses which I kept. Now that the season is kicking up, I'm going to purchase the most used lenses (telephotos) but the "seldom" used lenses during the day I will rent.

Regarding a slider, make yourself an igus slider for under $200 if cost is a concern. Same as the glidetrack (its the manufacturer), you just have to figure out your own DIY feet brackets. Or you can buy the konova (sp?) slider on ebay that is quite smooth for a couple hundred more.

Audio, buy two H1s and 2 giant squid mics. Unless you're going for alot of ambient sound bites during prep and what not, focus your money on the audio for the groom and minister, which is where most of the sound bites to drive the story forward usually come from. Or you can even purchase older irivers and pair those with the giant squids if you think the H1 is too big.

If you need really want a rode vm, I have one for sale since I purchased the VM pro.

Regarding lenses, prime lenses and L lenses should have better IQ than EF-S lenses and kit lenses due to the glass used (save for the 17-55 2.8 IS, which is considered an EF-S "L" lens in the photo world). Prime lenses will give you better low light capability and the L lenses have a constant aperture throughout the zoom, therefore your exposure won't be changed every time you zoom in and out like the kit lens.

-RP

Re: New to weddings - On a Budget - Thoughts and Suggestions needed
 

1. Sound: If you are shooting alone, you are not going to have enough time to worry about a lot of sound adjustmen t. The problem with getting sound directly into camera is there is no monitoring capability. I have the H1, but have never mounted it to camera, and it seems it would be a decent enough substitute for on camera sound. But I think it should be isolated in some kind of mount to avoid handling noise. I have considered it, but never tried it, as my needs are more to narrative film making. I am not sure if there is any such device such as a shock mount for the H1.

As fars as having one in pocket, the noise in pocket would be bad. Consider a lapel mic for the second H1, if that is what you are doing. In years past, favorite separate recording devide were the IRiver 700 and 800 series with recording capability. You could buy a Giant Squid mic made for them. I have two of those units.

2. Support. I have made my own gunstock and shoulder mounts from simple square aluminum tubing, and such from Home Depot. Handles from a $ 7 packing tape dispenser work great for that.

Cowboy unit is not bad, but while resting on chest, your breathing may be noticeable. I bought one, but will problably stick with my tubing home made one for most situations.

3. You can get some great manual focus lenses-- fast for $ 60 to $100 on ebay. Adapters from Nikon and Pentax are cheap. And the glass is fantastic.

Re: New to weddings - On a Budget - Thoughts and Suggestions needed
 

The most important device I use is my MonoPod.

Get the Manfrotto monopod. This device is key and can get more bang for your buck better than any other gear.

If you are wanting to get into this business this is the device to not cheap on: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/737980-REG/Manfrotto_561BHDV_1_Fluid_Video_Monopod_W_Head.html
Rent a 17-55 Canon EF-S lens and the Canon 70-200mm IS lens for your sister's wedding. You will find these lens' are key.

You will need about 4 16gb cards and 3 batteries.

Another device you should get is the Comer 1800 light.

I also prefer the H4N over the H1N's Why? You can monitor it if you have a wireless audio kit and the sound is clean. Most people will tell you that the H1's have a hum and I agree. Soooo if the H4N is too much money then buy two H1's. One for the priest and one for the groom or for the readings during the ceremony.

Re: New to weddings - On a Budget - Thoughts and Suggestions needed
 

On $$$: So, without the finance to go all out here things like the H4 Recorder ($365 CDN) and the above mentioned monopod as well as expensive lenses have to be out. I suppose, in short, I am trying to toss together a simple kit to represent:
-better sound then the in camera mic
-some pro-shot looks (ie: slides) on the cheap
-stabilization
The key here is to try to keep it under $500 CDN.

Renting is a good idea but it is fair to note that I am not getting paid for this shoot and would prefer to put my money into items I can keep and find other uses for later should I upgrade (ie: H1 Handy Recorder). Though I am not gunning for high-end professional footage I would like something better then what I have done on point and shoots to show as a sample to friends/family to possibly get other work before, you know, starting an all out wedding videography business with better equipment.

On Sliders: For those suggesting I build my own I suppose I am interested in IndiSlidermini as it was the most cost effective AND came with a Pistol Grip which I figured I'd use somewhere down the line. However, that said, I am certainly open to suggestions on how to make my own but will pass on I have zero construction skills and no tools. Also, if those who suggested DIY can post links to diagrams/instructions that would be appreciated. Not ruling this one out.

Note: I will have two other people in my crew...probably should have mentioned that. One is a professional still person and she will be doing those shots. The other will be with a point and shoot Canon SX20.

On Pocket Cameras: I guess I am not understanding the benefit of having these?

On mics: It seems like more people are suggestion a RODE for the camera though, again, from what I have heard the H1 does just as well and is cheaper. Anybody have experience with both to comment. I do like the idea of lav'ing up people but, at this stage, we are unsure if the priest/groom/bride want to be on a wire mic...hence my idea to sit a H1 on a tripod between the three on a tripod (enough out of shot to not effect the wedding photos...for example, under and facing up)...which they seem alright with.

On Monopod: This may seem like a silly question but please forgive my newbiness but why would the monopod be good for me. I see the ease of transport but having never used one see it not being as stable as something attached to me like the Cowboy shoulder gear. Of course, there are cheaper monopods then the one listed by Kelly but I suppose I am just not seeing the benefit. Please elaborate.

On Viewfinder: These all seem really pricey.

On Camera lighting: Ditto.

Oh yeah, their reception is going to be outside as well...meaning, dancing and such and we have already discussed that when the sunsets the shoot is pretty much over.

Thanks again, folks.

Re: New to weddings - On a Budget - Thoughts and Suggestions needed
 

+1 on the IGUS slider. Forget the indislidermini (I had it and about to ditch it now).. it will be a waste of $200 later down the road. Get a mate who could help you build a DIY IGUS, or buy/read instructions from ZazaSlider Products .. improvise yourself too.. re the pistol head, dont worry, there's plenty of second hand tripod head in the market that would work the job

+1 on the monopod.. it steadies itself to a ground, which doesn't move at all (unless earthquake occurs!). Shoulder rig stabilizes to your body.. which moves everytime even as you're breathing. I personally know a lot of wedding videographers who won't recommend a shoulder rig.

+1 on the cards and batteries. never let yourself run out of memory or batteries. Even a million dollar camera won't work without these essentials. You can score cheap knock off batteries in eBay.. if you can't buy much cards atleast prepare yourself to constantly backup your files to a computer on the wedding day so you can format it and re-use

If you can score a secondhand iRiver 7xx/8xx series, they would make the cheapest decent voice recorder. H1 would work, but I agree that it is quite bulky. I would definitely suggest lav up the groom atleast and invest in RODE for the onboard camera mic.

Lastly.. consider using your T2i mostly for the highlights clip.. use a proper video camera to document the complete ceremony/reception.

Re: New to weddings - On a Budget - Thoughts and Suggestions needed
 

Since there are no low light issues you can skip the lenses for now or you may just get a used manual focus 50mm f1.4 or f1.7 for those shallow DOF shots. It's the cheapest lens you can find and probably the most usefull.
Then you are left with $400-450 for the rest.
Since you already have an SX20 for back-up you may be fine but a small pocket cam like the TA1 or the Flip mino can serve in many ways. On a tall light stand Adorama 13' Chrome, Air-Cushion Lightstand, 4 Section - eBay (item 330494523191 end time Mar-08-11 18:39:56 PST) for a bird's eye view or on a short lightstand STUDIO LIGHTSTAND 3.5' Dual Mount Metal Lightstand New - eBay (item 370467248966 end time Mar-16-11 11:36:43 PDT) that you can move around and get alternative views, like the audience clapping while you and the SX20 are both shooting the bride coming down the aisle or a low angle shot of the ring exchange while you film their expressions and so on.

For a viewfinder this 3" CARRY SPEED VFINDER 3:2 FOR T2i 60D LCDVF Z FINDER - eBay (item 120687993289 end time Mar-22-11 21:55:25 PDT) is quite affortable

And another option for a slider may be this Camera Skater Slider Dual Dolly RS (tm) with 3' TRACK! - eBay (item 180632764098 end time Mar-02-11 11:39:26 PST)

If you plan on using the H1 with a lav mic on the groom you may be better off with the used iRiver which is smaller and cheaper. The H1 is still usefull though.

Re: New to weddings - On a Budget - Thoughts and Suggestions needed
 

On Monopod: Okay, you guys are swaying me away from the shoulder strap idea seeing as how many people are plugging the Monopod. I'd have to get one $100 or under, though, to fit budget. Suggestions?

On Slider: The ZazaSlider parts mentioned above are costly. The feet alone are over the cost of the whole IndiSlidermini Package. As for getting a friend to build one...well, my buddies are just as construction inept as I am and if parts are going to cost the same or over then an IndiSlider I'd just as soon go that route. Of course, then there's THIS idea: YouTube - Build a DIY Slider for $20 : Backyard FX. Again, I am certainly open to suggestions on the Slider end of things but I have two criteria:
1) An easy cost effective build if I DIY
2) It must have feet to put on surfaces as I will be using it at a later date
3) Cost under $200

On Sound: Hunting around for IRivers on an initial search at Canadian retail stores has found none. Do they still sell these? Holding an H1 yesterday they didn't seem to be that bulky. I put one in my pocket and walked around and was alright. Are you guys suggesting that it is better to lav mic up the Groom to record the priest/bride as well as opposed to my idea of sticking the H1 between them on a tripod?

On Memory and Batteries: I have two batteries for the Canon. As for Memory I have a 16gig card and an 8gig card at the moment but plan on purchasing either another 16gig or a 35gig. Also Note, I am bringing my laptop up with external harddrive and one person on my crew will be transfering files onto it when the card is full. What struck me last night, though, is how long will it take to transfer 16gig of HD footage onto a laptop?

Viewfinder: So, and correct me if I am wrong, but this just makes the view of the LCD bigger and helps steady the shot? I thought the Canon screen was quite large. If I were to have the camera on tripods/monopods how necessary is this purchase?

Re: New to weddings - On a Budget - Thoughts and Suggestions needed
 

Hi Robert,

Welcome to the forum. I'm also new to the wedding business, about 1.5 years now. I started just like you and was on a huge limited budget. One of the main things I would suggest is to get enough cards and batteries. You dont want to be down because you dont have power or your card hasn't finished transferring to your laptop. There's no retakes at weddings especially in the ceremony so you want to cover your tail on downtimes. The next best thing is to buy the best tripod you can afford. I wish I had done more research on this philosophy because my cheapo tripod in my first gig didn't do justice. I find it very hard to watch a video with jerky panning. The very first thing I bought right after my first gig was a professional tripod. Someone suggested renting gear and in starting out, I think that's a great idea. My assumption is that you dont have much experience in a lot of gear so it would be the best way to try them out through renting. Also, I understand your pretty much set on the slider and they do give that cinematic feel. I would really look at the zazaslider. However, since you are new I would probably ditch the slider and focus on refining your skills at dslr work because DSLR work is its own beast to master and a hard one at that.

Re: New to weddings - On a Budget - Thoughts and Suggestions needed
 

get out now before it's too late. Or, if you are hard headed, get DSLRs so you can start doing still photography as well, thats where the money is.

Re: New to weddings - On a Budget - Thoughts and Suggestions needed
 

I found this ad on Kijiji, might want to look into it if the unit is still available

For Sale iRiver iFP-790 (Red) MP3 player - Kitchener / Waterloo Phones, PDAs, iPods For Sale - Kijiji Kitchener / Waterloo Canada.

Re: New to weddings - On a Budget - Thoughts and Suggestions needed
 

Rob,
Just went through this in the last year. If this is your first wedding then I would keep it simple, worry about the slider down the road. Try to up your footage each wedding you do, each look takes a bit of skill to master and is also a potential failure. You have to know how to get your slider onto your tripod, and if you end up loosing a screw or some other failure, have a backup in place. If you are not experienced with the pace of a wedding dealing with problems (which can eat up 30 minutes easily) will cause problems. First figure out what you want to be your deliverable. My first wedding, all I delivered was a highlight reel. This was a freebie for a couple that didn't even want video. Maybe find someone that you can offer something like that to, so you get used to the pace and you can learn how to work around the main photographer (staying out of each others shots). Second wedding I offered, highlight, and short film, third I added documentary footage. Go to vimeo and search for stillmotions canon caravan and study them. For a budget of $500, rent a good video tripod, don't go cheap on this. That with a 70-200 rental can get you some beautiful footage and covers the reception.

At that budget you might want to consider not even dealing with audio and just doing a highlights clip to music (if you can score another gig before your sisters). Then once you've gotten used the the camera and pulling focus add audio to your sisters event. I would download and study magic lantern on the t2i. This unlocks the 12minut limitation (good for ceremony), gives you white balance, and gives you more iso options (there is tremendous value is in this hack for someone working on a budget). Somethings you want to practice before, whitebalance, stabilization and audio monitoring (practice as in, capture the footage/audio and review it on your computer before the event). You can't just handhold the t2i, it shows micro-jitters. The way around this is using a support "Cullmann CUTP 3090 Travelpod" and staying under 75mm on a crop. If you shoot loose then you can deal with it a little in post, but that cost more money. So I think the best recommendation is to get the video monopod per everyone's recommendation for an initial investment (not a photography monopod, it has to be the one listed). White balance (easy to dismiss even with the pace and stress of the day), you need to nail in camera, fixing in post will give you a lot of headaches. Audio monitoring on magic lantern for t2i is really great. Get the mic below and you can see your levels on the lcd screen and get fantastic audio in camera. I would use this for your ambient, and then get a TASCAM DR07 with a radio shack lapel mic for vows. In post, mix the ambient from the t2i with the audio for the TASCAM. For the reception stick the TASCAM near the DJ speaker to pick up the speeches. Make sure you have the concert limiter on so that you don't blow out the sound, and that you have spare batteries and memory to cover the amount of time you need. Also, spend time configuring and playing around with the audio recorder ahead of time, don't do it at the wedding. For the t2i set the picture profile to sharpness 0, contrast -2, saturation -1, color 1. Canons image out of camera is too contrasty to deal with in post, color deals with typical canon red color bias.

Sennheiser_MKE_400_MKE_400_Compact_Video

If you don't have low light glass then I guess I would rent that. You have to get something below 2.8.

Re: New to weddings - On a Budget - Thoughts and Suggestions needed
 

I agree wth Johannes about the indislider. I wasted $200 bucks..a few months later I bought the DPSlider for $800. So in other words, I spend $1,000 on the DP Slider.

Re: New to weddings - On a Budget - Thoughts and Suggestions needed
 

iRiver 700's and 800's have been out of production for a while, but can be had fairly reasonable used (sometimes in the DVi classifieds!), there are also other small digital recorders that others have used with good results.

Really good FAST glass doesn't come "cheap", I've collected some old Minolta glass for my Alpha mounts and saved a lot, but the general situation is that you're going to end up putting some serious money into lenses over time as you learn more about what various lenses do - that's the "joy" of interchangeable glass, as well as the curse.

You might take a look around DVi for DIY shoulder mounts - there's a recent thread where the poster built a pretty nice one for his VG10 from plumbing parts, and you'd be looking at less than $50 even if you have to buy a hacksaw and make a few mistakes... I've used the same design as the "cowboy" shoulder mount, and had too much "breathing" from the chest pad contact. I DO use a shoulder mount though for video cameras, I'm not sure yet for shooting a SLR... still working on that!

If the 561 Bogen is too much, you might take a look at the 560b - same fluid cartridge base, simpler head, but still effective. The 561 is BETTER, but as you've noted, pricey. Don't discount those little feet, they work wonders... expensive but worth the price of entry IMO. The 561 has the advantage of MASS, which will help with some of the "tricks" below.

Here's the trick with the monopod - it's mobile (faster than a tripod), adds stability to the ground or other steady object when needed, BUT, with a ball or swivel head, swing the shaft back and over your shoulder, and voila, a crude but effective "shoulder support"... OR get a belt pocket (or use your pocket, or use 2 of the feet on one of those Bogens into your belt loops!) and voila, a steady stick sort of arrangement (support, but without the chest pod "breathing"), plus you can get some height, for faked crane shots. Flip it over, you've got a "doggie cam" (flip the resulting video in post) that will be pretty close to a low mode steadicam once you get the hang of it. Learn how to balance the rig, and you can fake steadicam shots within reason (the monopod adds a counterweight to help take shakes and wobbles out), If you learn to hold the rig and glide/walk, you can even fake a slider shot to some degree... That's just a start of what the simple "dumb" monopod can do for you, it's not 100% of any of the fancier gear, but it's a good 80-90% from a single piece of equipment, thus why you see people swearing by it, and specifically the 560/561, although I've got some nice cheap monopods I've collected that come in handy too.

The "pocket cam" is a cheap way to have a 2nd/3rd/cutaway angle for your video in case of a battery/card/clip change, and while it's not much, you've got SOME backup in case your camera decides to take a proverbial dump on you mid-wedding (this is why everyone who is "pro" has redundant EVERYTHING). Some of the tiny P&S cameras are getting pretty good footage, for cheap cheap prices!


I'll just issue a bit of a warning on buying memory and batteries as a long time buyer of stuff on eBay... be VERY careful about buying stuff this way to stretch your budget, as it's VERY easy to get burned with "fake" stuff that won't work as expected, memory particularly. If you're trying to stretch your money, this isn't the way to do it, unless you know how NOT to get fake/counterfeit/bogus merchandise!


While you've set a budget, keep in mind that some things will be used for a LONG time relatively, and also hold their value in case you decide you don't want to do weddings down the road! Cheap and trendy stuff doesn't hold it's value, good gear DOES. If you aren't a DIY'er where you can build your own "rigs", you're going to have to spend more, better to spend it right.

Re: New to weddings - On a Budget - Thoughts and Suggestions needed
 

I am not into autofocus, so this Takumar lens has turned out to be a neat walk around lens for my 5D. I also use in on my T2i for some pretty nice images.

takumar 28-80 items - Get great deals on Cameras Photo, Zoom items on eBay.com!

Example of adapter here: lens adapter Pentax PK to Canon EOS EF 500D 50D 7D 5D - eBay (item 220632596438 end time Mar-02-11 01:55:15 PST)

At 28-80m on the T2i, it won't provide much wide angle coverage but it is equivalet of about 45 to 125, It also has a macro on the telephoto end that will come in handy for ring shots, and other close ups. For around $ 50, plus cost of Pentax K to eos adapter, it provides you with pretty decent glass.

Re: New to weddings - On a Budget - Thoughts and Suggestions needed
 

Again, a big thanks to the folks in this forum for the bevy of replies. I've posted similar questions in other forums to get ziltch of an answer. A few additional things:

SOUND: In looking at what the iRiver does compared to the H1 Handy Record, seems like the H1 is a better option if I'm only not going that route due to it being bulky in a pocket. I can rig up some sort of clip for it if need be. See below about my idea on used electronics.
-Has anyone had any experience with the H1 Recorder vs the Rode Video Mic. Again, from what I have seen the sound is comparable and the H1 gives you more mobility and is cheaper so seemed like the better choice. The only dif, of course, was the RODE lets me sync sound.

ON USED/EBAY: I am not too keen on getting things off Ebay used...especially electronics. I've been burned a few times and have lost a bit of cash on bad transactions. Things like monopods/tripods maybe but electonrics I prefer to get something that I can at least return if it bums out or has some sort of limited warrenty. With iRivers being so hard to come by new, I'd probably shy away from that option unless somebody can convince me otherwise that it would be a much better option then the H1 which, from what I have heard, sounds great.

On additional cards: Trust me, I'll purchase these new.

Monopod: Wow...I never thought about all those options you get out of one...especially the StediCam ideas. Thanks Dave for the amazing suggestion.

Slider: I am starting to think myself out of one of these after I was so gun-ho on the IndiSliderMini. Basically, I can afford $200ish for one of these and would prefer the have feet for outside shooting though I suppose this isn't a be all end all if I cart along a few cheapy woodblocks or even solid books.
-Anyone have any experience with the MotionSlider 24 or Micro? 24PHD- Motion Slider 24 Camera Slider
Micro Motion Slider Camera Slider
That looks a bit sturdier on the top end then the IndiSLidermini andin my budget.

* * *

Perhaps a simplier question for the forum would be:
I have $500 / some memory cards / and a Canon T2i - What is essential to add for a wedding shoot without going over? :p

Re: New to weddings - On a Budget - Thoughts and Suggestions needed
 

Hi Michael,

I use an indislider but didn't have good results until I realized the camera has to have its center of gravity directly over the center of the glide carriage rails. If its not it tends to stick or stutter because the weight is on the edge rather than the middle. I have a macro focusing rail that allows the camera to move forward and backwards depending on the lens I'm using. For $100 it does what its supposed to do.

Re: New to weddings - On a Budget - Thoughts and Suggestions needed
 

I'm also debating sliders...but the Pocket Dolly Signature Series keeps selling out.

So in the meantime need something cheap to hold me over.

What are your guys thoughts on the Zazaslider w/ Zaza feet vs. Motion Slider vs. Motion Slider HD vs. Glidetrak SD vs. Glidetrak Hybrid?

I still can't figure out the difference between Motion Slider and the HD version.

Re: New to weddings - On a Budget - Thoughts and Suggestions needed
 

Glidetrack and Zaza both uses IGUS bearing system. So it is quite comparable between the two. The Zazaslider standard is only $280. I reckon its worth the extra dollars.

Re: New to weddings - On a Budget - Thoughts and Suggestions needed
 

Thanks!

So the Glidetrack SD, HD, XD lines just carry different camera payloads? But then there's the Hybrid model in the HD line, which says it uses both sliding AND roller bearings. I'm assuming the SD line only uses one of them, but which one?

How much better is the hybrid system?

And how does the Motion Slider 36 compare to the IGUS systems (non hybrid IGUS). And what in the world is the Motion Slider HD - from the description, it seems identical to the Motion Slider 36, but the HD is way more expensive.

Re: New to weddings - On a Budget - Thoughts and Suggestions needed
 

If the groom is wearing a coat, mic up the groom, he doesn't get a choice. When your sister is whispering her vows and you are 15 feet away, nothing is going to pick that up if it's on your cam. Then in post use the cam audio to mix in some of the ambient sounds so your mic'd audio isn't too stale.

The monopod that's been suggested, I have one and love it. If you try and cheapshot the monopod from this model, you might as well just plunk the camera on a broom stick. This model monopod has a fluid pivot in the base and video head. The typical monopod though is just a collapsing stick. If you are looking for it used, the same model that precedes this one is the 561B.

Re: New to weddings - On a Budget - Thoughts and Suggestions needed
 

The Motion Slider HD Version, it seems, is a bit more heavy duty in build.
The issue I have with Motion Slider right now is there doesn't seem to be as big a following as some of the other Sliders. Thus, no video previews or comments to read. I'd like to hear if anybody has had some experience with them. I wrote them today but no response so far. Are they still in business? Anyway, I have a slider thread here: http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/techniqu...ut-way-go.html to continue this discussion.

Re: New to weddings - On a Budget - Thoughts and Suggestions needed
 

Glidecam SD/IGUS uses a sliding system, which is not as good as roller bearing system. Glidetrack Hybrid should be way much better as it combines the two.

Re: New to weddings - On a Budget - Thoughts and Suggestions needed
 

10X better, 100X better. Pick a number. It is much, much better. I used to get so frustrated with my Glidetrack SD as it used to stick or judder at just the wrong moment. It could be great but would often ruin a shot right at the end. The Glidetrack Hybrid is in a whole different league.

Re: New to weddings - On a Budget - Thoughts and Suggestions needed
 

If you don't mind chinese knock-offs to get a roller bearing slider I recommend konovacamera's 50KG on ebay. I used it on a gig last weekend and can post samples if anyone is interested.

Re: New to weddings - On a Budget - Thoughts and Suggestions needed
 

What do you think about the Dual Dolly RS show here: Dolly/Track Systems | eFilmGear
Video here: YouTube - Dual Dolly RS Demo

I like the idea that the dolly doesn't stay locked to the track and, thus, can be used without it on flat surfaces and up walls.

Thoughts?

Re: New to weddings - On a Budget - Thoughts and Suggestions needed
 

If you are hellbent on a slider and can handle a drill this looks like a great starting point.

Re: New to weddings - On a Budget - Thoughts and Suggestions needed
 

The ebay auction i gave you a few days ago Camera Skater Slider Dual Dolly RS (tm) with 3' TRACK! - eBay (item 180632764098 end time Mar-02-11 11:39:26 PST) ended at $132.50

I haven't tried it myself but I like the idea too and their sample footage looks promising.

It is a very easy DIY project too and it will probably cost you less than $30-40 to build one. Well worth the try IMHO

Re: New to weddings - On a Budget - Thoughts and Suggestions needed
 

Alternatively you can get this Video Camera Track Skater Dolly Slider 5D2 7D d700 A55 - eBay (item 120690136951 end time Mar-07-11 20:27:42 PST) and make your own track for it.
You can follow these instructions YouTube - DIY Spider Trax Dolly Track final video.mp4

Re: New to weddings - On a Budget - Thoughts and Suggestions needed
 

or buy a skateboard :)