Re: Opinions Needed, Please
 

Okay, things have finally begun to fall into place! I have acquired a new Sony NX70U and two used Sony CX500Vs. The NX70 has been here a couple of weeks and the CX500s just arrived a couple of days ago. Now, here's the problem...
One of my major clients has asked me to come out TONIGHT to tape their choral show. They are fully aware of our equipment changes and asked me to tape because they know that I need the practice and hands-on experience with the new cams, as well as wanting a DVD of the show. I have barely had time to get these cams charged and date settings done. I have not had ANY time to learns the in and outs!

Can anyone who uses this type of setup give me some pointers on settings, what to expect and be on the lookout for, what not to do, etc.? The NX70U will be my main cam - used for closeups, different angles, pans, etc.. One of the CX500s will be set up right next to it and locked down as a wide angle. The other CX500 will more than likely be placed near the front of the stage off to the side for a locked down closeup. I may be able to monitor this one from where I will be, but unable to make changes once the performance begins.

It's difficult enough getting the sound set up for this event (even though it's very small and low key compared to their usual shows), but dealing with three new (and very different from what I am used to)cameras is daunting and puts me in the weeds. Any advice would be much appreciated.

Re: Opinions Needed, Please
 

Without knowing anything about the location, and not having any first hand experience operating an NX70 it is really hard to think of what could be said that would be helpful.

Here is one thing, though. If the stage is reasonably well lit, the CX cams will do a pretty decent job on full auto mode. If you have strong contrast (say, spotlights or direct overhead lighting), there is a spotlight function in the menu which works pretty well. For zooming with the NX70, I would suggest riding the exposure control. The view screen will give you a pretty good impression of what is too bright or too dark.

Re: Opinions Needed, Please
 

Hi Rey - sent you an e-mail - call me if you hit a snag! It should go smoothly though, these cameras should match pretty well overall so you've got consistent footage in post.

I and others do recommend setting AE shift 2-4 to the negative, other than that, should get good results in straight "auto" if it comes to it!

Re: Opinions Needed, Please
 

Hey guys!

I did go back through the notes I have been taking on this whole matter for four months and shifted the AE down -3. :)

I know that sound came out great. The two CX500's looked about the same, but the NX70 was a little dark. Not too bad, so I don't know if it was an exposure matter or just the LCD screen brightness. I'll take a look at it in editing tomorrow and make adjustments to the cams from there.

Re: Opinions Needed, Please
 

Hi Rey,

With the NX70, be sure to use the zebras and histogram, and learn to use them. This only comes with practice, but you can detect overexposure (with the zebras) and overall exposure (with the histogram) quite reliably.

The NX70 does a pretty decent job in full auto, it might be worth trying that out. Unless lighting conditions are challenging, the computer inside that camera is a lot faster at correcting exposure and focus than my brain is!

Also, don't forget to check out the NX70 forums on here, for advice and ideas, the users there won't necessarily be dipping into the wedding forum!

Re: Opinions Needed, Please
 

Thanks, Mike!

Honestly, I have never learned how to read and interpret a histogram. That is something that I definitely need to take some to time to do. Up to now, I have relied solely on the LCD for exposure. Yes, I know, that's a horrible habit to get into. :)

Another thing I need to check into on my end and possibly ask on the NX70 forums - the sound was very low on the camera. I was using the XLR inputs to record the sound from my mixer. I tried the auto setting and then turned the manual up to about 8 and still got a low reading. I then decided to pull out the Zoom H2 to record the sound as a backup. There could be a setting on the mixer that I have overlook since I have never used the XLR outputs from it before.

This event is not normally recorded and they brought me into it just because they knew I needed a "guinea pig" as they called it. I think I can make the necessary corrections in post, but luckily no one will be upset if something went terribly wrong.

Re: Opinions Needed, Please
 

The really great thing about these little cams is that nothing ever goes "terribly" wrong.

Re: Opinions Needed, Please
 

I posted a rough edit on our Facebook page. In it, you can see subtle differences between the NX70 (main cam) and the two CX500's. I think it's just an issue of some slight adjustments to bring the two models together. By the way, the third angle (only shown briefly) was used for testing only. I hope to have it better framed in a better location in the future.

It's the top clip entitled "Preview of 'Night of Music'":
Magical Memories Productions | Facebook

Re: Opinions Needed, Please
 

Looked pretty good overall, a bit hard to tell because the image quality wasn't all that high, but offhand it looked like this was one of those few times you actually might have to bump the exposure/exposure shift or leave it on "auto".... looked like the NX was on "auto", with the CX's AE shifted down a bit? It also could have been just the overall composition of the frame...

With the dark background and all the black formal style outfits, you actually have to let the camera give a little more brightness to the overall picture - carefully, as it may tend to "overexpose" to compensate for the majority "dark" frame, and you don't want to blow the highlights either, but in this case I would have suggested let the CX500's ride up a little more, OR use the AE shift on the NX70 to better match. Generally these little cams are pretty good at not blowing highs, so you can give a little in a dark situation and adjust in post.

Probably use the zebras on the NX to judge where the limits are, and dial in the other cams to match.

It's always tricky when you have either a "bright" overall stage or a "dark" one... adding to it is if there's either too much or not enough contrast... black on black is a bugger anytime, especially if you also have bright whites... and non-optimal lighting. On top of that, you zoom out to a room with light wood finish, and that changes the overall brightness of the frame...

I'd guess the client is happy overall?

Re: Opinions Needed, Please
 

This client is always happy with our work. And they were well aware of the learning curve we were facing. They love the clip.

I was setting up for this show three hours early (call it OCD :) ), but did not know how they planned to set up the stage. Normally, the stage lights are up, house lights down, curtain open and risers set farther back. Since this event was very short, informal and staged so differently, I really had no way to prepare and adjust the cameras as I normally do. With the show only lasting 20 minutes, they also did not have a sound tech on hand, so I was left to my own devices to get a lead from that one mic they were using for this song.

And just so you know, that clip is not the final edit. It was more or less to get a gauge on how the three cams play together and to see if my computer was capable of handling the new file type. That wide shot toward the end and the third angle to the right will more than likely not make the final cut.

I did end up purchasing Cineform NeoScene for future use to avoid the stuttering I was getting in Vegas while editing, though. Vegas 11 actually seemed to handle it better, but playback was still choppy.

Re: Opinions Needed, Please
 

Okay, since it was mentioned in this thread and I am now down to the process, how can I get the best results when converting HD to DVD? I'm using Vegas 10 & 11 to edit and Cineform NeoScene to convert the mts files to avi. Are there any special settings I need to be looking at in those two apps?

Re: Opinions Needed, Please
 

If you're recording progressive, and do not need to deinterlace, then you don't need cineform at all. I have and use Cineform HD Link for resizing and deinterlacing when needed but I found out if I'm not deinterlacing (I don't like Vegas' deinterlacing) Cineform is an unnecessary step, and my DVDs turn out stellar. I showed a DVD to a prospect, and they asked me if it was bluray, it was that good.

Here's the workflow I came up with after months of painful experienced, and after much advice from others here.

For DVD from HD:

1. Set Project properties to SD widescreen progressive and best, do not use project properties to match your original footage.
2. Crop footage on the timeline to 16:9 using the Aspect Ratio tool. In one click you are cropping your footage to 16:9 dimension, so Vegas doesn't have to do that.
3. Render to appropriate settings, and you're done.

I'm no expert, and there may be those who set project properties to match original footage, that is how I always thought it needed to be done, but the method I use works well, and was recommended by Cineform support.

Re: Opinions Needed, Please
 

Jeff,

My footage is 1080/60i. Regardless, I'm using Cineform (with HDLink) to decompress the files to AVI since my computer lags on HD. Hopefully a bit more memory and a graphics card will help until I can get a mb/processor upgrade, but this is basically my starting point right now.

Re: Opinions Needed, Please
 

The problem with HD link is that you need to resize to 16:9, but Vegas doesn't see the resulting files in the correct aspect ratio, they appear squished With Vegas 10 you can use a method to fix it using project properties, but it doesn't work in 11 except one clip at a time.

Excalibur supposedly has a tool that can work, and Edward says it stays functional after the demo expires, I beleive.

It is this hassle that caused me to contact Cineform and they recommended the way I told you, to crop the original footage on the timeline.

So what I would do then, is one of two things, use hdlink to resize to 16:9 SD, and then deal with the aspect ratio in vegas later as best as you can. OR, in HD link in preferences do NOT resize the footage. Just convert it to cineform, and then use the same workflow I described earlier by cropping the footage to 16:9 on the timeline, it would work perfectly.

If you want to get fancy and make both: I make both Bluray and DVD of everything I do. For that you just create a version of the project using bluray setting in you project properties and render correctly for bluray. Then for DVD you save project under another name and use 16:9 properties, crop the footage on the timeline using aspect ratio script, and you're set.

If you need the script, I'll email it to you, very simple to use, i forget where it was from easier to email it then find a link for you.

Re: Opinions Needed, Please
 

Hi Jeff, can you post a link to 90 minute tapes that you using? Thanks.

Re: Opinions Needed, Please
 

I haven't bought tapes in ages, place I bought them last was in Columbus, but I've moved to Cincinnati. You can buy them at B&H for a decent price. I used only Sony brand.