Shooting and Delivery Formats at DVinfo.net

Katie Fasel · August 17th, 2011, 12:33 PM

Just curious what format (SD, HD, 1080p/i, 24fps etc.) others are shooting and delivering in..DVD, BluRay, Digital Copy?

Wanted to get a feel for what others are doing. We shoot in HD but do not deliver BluRay...it's on our list of projects to perfect for our winter slow season, but we have only had one couple turn us down because we don't do BluRay. Other than that, no one ever even wants a BluRay.

It will probably be interesting to see across the board what people in various areas of the country and world are doing.

Tim Bakland · August 17th, 2011, 01:10 PM

1080 30p w/ Canon XF codec (50mbs).

Delivery for weddings is 50/50 either DVD (dual layer) or Blu-Ray (sometimes even BD-DL).

First ever wedding client this week asked for 3 copies of blu-ray only delivery (no DVD).

Still no thumb drives for media players, but I expect that will start coming, too.

Don Bloom · August 17th, 2011, 03:34 PM

I'm still shooting SD and delivering DVDs and other than an occassional question like "do you shoot HD"? to which I answer "do you want HD?" and in every case the answer has been no it hasn't cost me a single job that I know of.
While I may very well make the change over next year for now I'll continue to do my work in SD.

John Knight · August 17th, 2011, 04:11 PM

New Zealand.

Although Bluray players are relatively cheap and PS3's are quite common, I've never had a single enquiry about Bluray or HD delivery. So the Bluray burner and blanks I invested in 12 months ago were a waste of money for me.

I shoot in HDV, edit in HDV, and downconvert the final edit to SD. I've found this gives significantly better results than shooting and editing in SD. At least then I can upload to Vimeo clips in native HD.

Personally I used to hire Bluray discs when I could from the video store, but have now just gone back to normal DVD's. I find the upscaling of a DVD movie fairly close to that of Bluray, and also realise that a crap movie is still a crap movie whether it's on DVD or Bluray.

Content is king. The industry NEEDS you to believe you can't survive without DSLR rigs, 3D goggles and Bluray!

Corey Graham · August 17th, 2011, 04:24 PM

I shoot HD, and deliver DVD's and Blu-rays with every package. Almost every couple I work with is impressed that I include Blu-rays at no extra charge. They're cheap and as easy to burn as DVD's.

Chris Harding · August 17th, 2011, 06:20 PM

I shoot on AVCCAM 720 50P although previous weddings have been at 1080 50i
Output is always SD DVD .... as with John, not one request for BluRay over the last 3 years. In fact brides seldom ask me about any technical details and I could, like Don, shoot in SD and the bride wouldn't care as long as the content was there and impressed her.
In fact my HMC's CAN shoot in DV-AVI but the files are huge and also take a lot longer to copy to drives and there is a tiny improvement using AVCHD and progressive footage at double frame rate.

Will the market change with regards to BluRay ...I very much doubt it!!! However I AM thinking about offering the couple their clips on a USB stick in MP4 as a bonus so they can watch the wedding in HD on their computer or a media player.

I think Don has adequately proved that you don't need the latest and greatest to have a successful wedding business.

Chris

Tim Bakland · August 17th, 2011, 07:13 PM

I'm surprised by the lack of blu-ray requests. It's been a nice thing for me -- not a huge initial investment (a few hundred for the drive, plus the academic version of Encore since I teach, too), and a spool of discs to start. For every wedding I do, I average 1-2 blu-ray copies and so the small initial investment has definitely paid itself back. Plus, I like knowing they have the nicest quality delivery I can get them. The DVDs are a close second, but do not match the stunning blu-ray quality (at least to my eye).

No question I could be surviving without blu-ray (and maybe it's not going to be long-lasting), but as folks know I have it going in, they've generally requested it.

Michael Bray · August 17th, 2011, 09:19 PM

Just like Tim, I really am surprised at the lack of BD love. Initially, I was going to respond with an answer along the lines of it must be region specific...however, I serve the same market as the OP (Grand Rapids, MI) and Blu-ray is one of our main selling points...so it may not be region specific but rather how you market it. We typically ask our clients how they found us and why they chose us and in almost every instance, our Blu-ray/DVD combo packs are listed as one of the reasons. Most clients aren't going to ask for it...as with any type of sales, you have to "sell" it, and we manage to do very well in that department. Believe me, if a guy can make a million dollars selling a "pet rock", you can sell just about anything. It's all in your marketing and sales pitch.

Back to Katie's question, we film 1080 30p and provide DVD/Blu-ray combo packs. We do not however, provide a digital copy at this time

Katie Fasel · August 17th, 2011, 09:51 PM

True, since we don't offer it, I don't really "sell" it when I meet my clients. We've been booked pretty solid since May this summer, and like I said, only one person asked for BR on their own, and we lost the job because of it....we did book another client for their date, so no harm no foul...It is something we're going to do eventually...we just started shooting HD this year, and I already see a DRAMATIC difference in quality on our DVDs, I can't wait to see what Bluray looks like...but as we are not familiar with the workflow, we decided not to tackle that project during the busy season.

We did, however, have someone ask for a digital copy though...at least that is something we can provide.

We must attract just a slightly different clientele, Michael. Nice to "meet" [sort of] a fellow local, btw.

Michael Bray · August 17th, 2011, 10:08 PM

Hi Katie,

Once you develop your workflow for Blu-ray and work it in as part of your packages, you will absolutely see a DRAMATIC difference when played back on your big screens. Our clients love it and I know yours will too!

Indeed...it's a pleasure to "meet" another fellow local :)

Tim Bakland · August 17th, 2011, 10:12 PM

Katie -
Totally understand your not doing blu-ray. It's recent for me, too. And, as Michael said, I think it's been a boon for me because I market toward it now. (And not many folks would ask for it otherwise.)

I, too, agree that DVDs look much better as down-res'd HD than originally filmed SD equivalents. The blu-ray just adds more punch... an "ah-hah". If your best work on DVD is "beautiful", then its equivalent will be stunningly so on br.

John Wiley · August 18th, 2011, 05:09 AM

I'm shooting a mix of 1080-50i HDV and 1080p25 DSLR's, and I provide a DVD. All my 50i footage is de-interlaced so my final output is SD 25p in a 50i wrapper for DVD compatability.

I don't do blu-ray, and I've never had a single request for it either. If anybody does ask, I'll tell them I can do a digital HD file for no extra charge. Personally, I'm hoping to skip the whole Blu-ray cycle and go straight to file based delivery which I see as the future.

Nigel Barker · August 18th, 2011, 06:17 AM

Authoring a Blu-ray is no more difficult than a DVD. We don't go in for fancy motion menus & such in either format & deliver on both formats plus a digital file suitable for iPhone/iPad on a USB stick. I think that the extra small effort in delivering on Blu-ray plus a digital copy is well worthwhile for the extra kudos of appearing up to date & distinctive. We don't want to wait until our clients ask for stuff we want to be offering it right now & differentiating ourselves from our competitors.

Tim Bakland · August 18th, 2011, 06:26 AM

I would second Nigel that it really isn't a great difficulty. For me, I just had to transition to ENCORE (and now can make a blu-ray OR DVD from the same project with ease (not to mention an online flash DVD with menus if I choose). I still use FCP and have merely swopped in Encore instead of DVDSP for the authoring step. Nothing else different.

Katie Fasel · August 18th, 2011, 06:41 AM

Tim, that will be our workflow too, as we edit with FCP. I have read that creating HD and SD discs from the same project in Encore is seamless...I hope the learning curve for Encore is not too steep.

Interesting to see all the 30p users out there...I thought 24p might have been more popular [I thought 30p was not a supported BluRay format?] So why use 30p...I assume there aren't any real hiccups [aside from interlacing] in going to DVD, but what about for your BluRay output?

Or is it more of a look/style preference? I've heard many people say that 60p is too video like, while 24p is sometimes "stroby", but 30p is the great in-between.

August 17th, 2011, 12:33 PM	#1
Katie Fasel Major Player Join Date: May 2011 Location: Grand Rapids, MI Posts: 236	Shooting and Delivery Formats Just curious what format (SD, HD, 1080p/i, 24fps etc.) others are shooting and delivering in..DVD, BluRay, Digital Copy? Wanted to get a feel for what others are doing. We shoot in HD but do not deliver BluRay...it's on our list of projects to perfect for our winter slow season, but we have only had one couple turn us down because we don't do BluRay. Other than that, no one ever even wants a BluRay. It will probably be interesting to see across the board what people in various areas of the country and world are doing.

August 17th, 2011, 01:10 PM	#2
Tim Bakland Major Player Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Beverly, MA Posts: 512	Re: Shooting and Delivery Formats 1080 30p w/ Canon XF codec (50mbs). Delivery for weddings is 50/50 either DVD (dual layer) or Blu-Ray (sometimes even BD-DL). First ever wedding client this week asked for 3 copies of blu-ray only delivery (no DVD). Still no thumb drives for media players, but I expect that will start coming, too. __________________ Event Videography, New England www.timothybakland.com

August 17th, 2011, 03:34 PM	#3
Don Bloom Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,609	Re: Shooting and Delivery Formats I'm still shooting SD and delivering DVDs and other than an occassional question like "do you shoot HD"? to which I answer "do you want HD?" and in every case the answer has been no it hasn't cost me a single job that I know of. While I may very well make the change over next year for now I'll continue to do my work in SD. __________________ What do I know? I'm just a video-O-grafer. Don

August 17th, 2011, 04:11 PM	#4
John Knight Major Player Join Date: May 2008 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 588	Re: Shooting and Delivery Formats New Zealand. Although Bluray players are relatively cheap and PS3's are quite common, I've never had a single enquiry about Bluray or HD delivery. So the Bluray burner and blanks I invested in 12 months ago were a waste of money for me. I shoot in HDV, edit in HDV, and downconvert the final edit to SD. I've found this gives significantly better results than shooting and editing in SD. At least then I can upload to Vimeo clips in native HD. Personally I used to hire Bluray discs when I could from the video store, but have now just gone back to normal DVD's. I find the upscaling of a DVD movie fairly close to that of Bluray, and also realise that a crap movie is still a crap movie whether it's on DVD or Bluray. Content is king. The industry NEEDS you to believe you can't survive without DSLR rigs, 3D goggles and Bluray!

August 17th, 2011, 04:24 PM	#5
Corey Graham Major Player Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Erie, PA Posts: 390	Re: Shooting and Delivery Formats I shoot HD, and deliver DVD's and Blu-rays with every package. Almost every couple I work with is impressed that I include Blu-rays at no extra charge. They're cheap and as easy to burn as DVD's. __________________ http://coreygraham.me http://coreygrahamweddings.com

August 17th, 2011, 06:20 PM	#6
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: Shooting and Delivery Formats I shoot on AVCCAM 720 50P although previous weddings have been at 1080 50i Output is always SD DVD .... as with John, not one request for BluRay over the last 3 years. In fact brides seldom ask me about any technical details and I could, like Don, shoot in SD and the bride wouldn't care as long as the content was there and impressed her. In fact my HMC's CAN shoot in DV-AVI but the files are huge and also take a lot longer to copy to drives and there is a tiny improvement using AVCHD and progressive footage at double frame rate. Will the market change with regards to BluRay ...I very much doubt it!!! However I AM thinking about offering the couple their clips on a USB stick in MP4 as a bonus so they can watch the wedding in HD on their computer or a media player. I think Don has adequately proved that you don't need the latest and greatest to have a successful wedding business. Chris

August 17th, 2011, 07:13 PM	#7
Tim Bakland Major Player Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Beverly, MA Posts: 512	Re: Shooting and Delivery Formats I'm surprised by the lack of blu-ray requests. It's been a nice thing for me -- not a huge initial investment (a few hundred for the drive, plus the academic version of Encore since I teach, too), and a spool of discs to start. For every wedding I do, I average 1-2 blu-ray copies and so the small initial investment has definitely paid itself back. Plus, I like knowing they have the nicest quality delivery I can get them. The DVDs are a close second, but do not match the stunning blu-ray quality (at least to my eye). No question I could be surviving without blu-ray (and maybe it's not going to be long-lasting), but as folks know I have it going in, they've generally requested it. __________________ Event Videography, New England www.timothybakland.com

August 17th, 2011, 09:19 PM	#8
Michael Bray Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Byron Center, MI Posts: 128	Re: Shooting and Delivery Formats Just like Tim, I really am surprised at the lack of BD love. Initially, I was going to respond with an answer along the lines of it must be region specific...however, I serve the same market as the OP (Grand Rapids, MI) and Blu-ray is one of our main selling points...so it may not be region specific but rather how you market it. We typically ask our clients how they found us and why they chose us and in almost every instance, our Blu-ray/DVD combo packs are listed as one of the reasons. Most clients aren't going to ask for it...as with any type of sales, you have to "sell" it, and we manage to do very well in that department. Believe me, if a guy can make a million dollars selling a "pet rock", you can sell just about anything. It's all in your marketing and sales pitch. Back to Katie's question, we film 1080 30p and provide DVD/Blu-ray combo packs. We do not however, provide a digital copy at this time

August 17th, 2011, 09:51 PM	#9
Katie Fasel Major Player Join Date: May 2011 Location: Grand Rapids, MI Posts: 236	Re: Shooting and Delivery Formats True, since we don't offer it, I don't really "sell" it when I meet my clients. We've been booked pretty solid since May this summer, and like I said, only one person asked for BR on their own, and we lost the job because of it....we did book another client for their date, so no harm no foul...It is something we're going to do eventually...we just started shooting HD this year, and I already see a DRAMATIC difference in quality on our DVDs, I can't wait to see what Bluray looks like...but as we are not familiar with the workflow, we decided not to tackle that project during the busy season. We did, however, have someone ask for a digital copy though...at least that is something we can provide. We must attract just a slightly different clientele, Michael. Nice to "meet" [sort of] a fellow local, btw.

August 17th, 2011, 10:08 PM	#10
Michael Bray Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Byron Center, MI Posts: 128	Re: Shooting and Delivery Formats Hi Katie, Once you develop your workflow for Blu-ray and work it in as part of your packages, you will absolutely see a DRAMATIC difference when played back on your big screens. Our clients love it and I know yours will too! Indeed...it's a pleasure to "meet" another fellow local :)

August 17th, 2011, 10:12 PM	#11
Tim Bakland Major Player Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Beverly, MA Posts: 512	Re: Shooting and Delivery Formats Katie - Totally understand your not doing blu-ray. It's recent for me, too. And, as Michael said, I think it's been a boon for me because I market toward it now. (And not many folks would ask for it otherwise.) I, too, agree that DVDs look much better as down-res'd HD than originally filmed SD equivalents. The blu-ray just adds more punch... an "ah-hah". If your best work on DVD is "beautiful", then its equivalent will be stunningly so on br. __________________ Event Videography, New England www.timothybakland.com

August 18th, 2011, 05:09 AM	#12
John Wiley Trustee Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Byron Bay, Australia Posts: 1,155	Re: Shooting and Delivery Formats I'm shooting a mix of 1080-50i HDV and 1080p25 DSLR's, and I provide a DVD. All my 50i footage is de-interlaced so my final output is SD 25p in a 50i wrapper for DVD compatability. I don't do blu-ray, and I've never had a single request for it either. If anybody does ask, I'll tell them I can do a digital HD file for no extra charge. Personally, I'm hoping to skip the whole Blu-ray cycle and go straight to file based delivery which I see as the future.

August 18th, 2011, 06:17 AM	#13
Nigel Barker Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK Posts: 3,531	Re: Shooting and Delivery Formats Authoring a Blu-ray is no more difficult than a DVD. We don't go in for fancy motion menus & such in either format & deliver on both formats plus a digital file suitable for iPhone/iPad on a USB stick. I think that the extra small effort in delivering on Blu-ray plus a digital copy is well worthwhile for the extra kudos of appearing up to date & distinctive. We don't want to wait until our clients ask for stuff we want to be offering it right now & differentiating ourselves from our competitors.

August 18th, 2011, 06:26 AM	#14
Tim Bakland Major Player Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Beverly, MA Posts: 512	Re: Shooting and Delivery Formats I would second Nigel that it really isn't a great difficulty. For me, I just had to transition to ENCORE (and now can make a blu-ray OR DVD from the same project with ease (not to mention an online flash DVD with menus if I choose). I still use FCP and have merely swopped in Encore instead of DVDSP for the authoring step. Nothing else different. __________________ Event Videography, New England www.timothybakland.com

August 18th, 2011, 06:41 AM	#15
Katie Fasel Major Player Join Date: May 2011 Location: Grand Rapids, MI Posts: 236	Re: Shooting and Delivery Formats Tim, that will be our workflow too, as we edit with FCP. I have read that creating HD and SD discs from the same project in Encore is seamless...I hope the learning curve for Encore is not too steep. Interesting to see all the 30p users out there...I thought 24p might have been more popular [I thought 30p was not a supported BluRay format?] So why use 30p...I assume there aren't any real hiccups [aside from interlacing] in going to DVD, but what about for your BluRay output? Or is it more of a look/style preference? I've heard many people say that 60p is too video like, while 24p is sometimes "stroby", but 30p is the great in-between.