Capturing audio from DJ board
 

I'm finally giving in to something I should have been doing long before now. I must start capturing video from the DJs board when I can.

I just watched my latest Bluray disc. Looked great, sounded pretty bad for the toasts. I'm normally able to capture decent sound by placing a cam in the vicinity of the dj's speakers, and I use a shotgun on the cam closest to the actual toasters, but it doesn't always work. It's too much like amateur hour when things don't work out.

Anyway, what kind of plug will I most commonly want to use for this purpose? RCA, or a 1/4"? Will I need two monos running into my single mini stereo? Or will I need a stereo rca to stereo mini? Or will I need all of the above, and more? Suggestions appreciated.

Re: Capturing audio from DJ board
 

RCA is by far the most common that I've seen. I didn't put much thought into mono vs stereo when I picked up my cable. Just a typical RCA to mini jack will suit your needs for about 85% of the time. The other 15%, I would grab an XLR to mini jack, I also have a 1/4 stereo jack that I hardly ever have to bring out of the bag.

A little advise though, make sure you reiterate to the DJ that you want all the audio (master).. Including his microphone. I've had it happen twice already where I thought they hooked me in to capture the mic but only got the music. Now I ask them to do a mic check and make sure I have the levels on my DR.

Best of luck... You'll be happy with the results.

Steve

Re: Capturing audio from DJ board
 

Stephen, thanks a ton for sharing, I appreciate the details and explanations.

Re: Capturing audio from DJ board
 

With me, I carry the following...
MP3 Recorder on Line in Setting
1 XLR cable to 1/8 jack,1 RCA cable to 1/8 jack, 1 Sennheiser E604 (I'll get to this later)

Option 1.If I see that the DJ has "powered speakers" I'll take the line out directly from the speaker using the XLR to 1/8. For you guys that aren't familiar with sound, powered speakers have built in amps inside them and usually have "Line outs" This way there is no confusion that you will be getting the toasts and music from that speaker.

Option 2. If the DJ has "Passive Speakers" I'll ask to get a line out from the board with the RCA jacks BUT I'll make him test his mic and get a sound check. Most DJ's are pretty cool about this.

Option 3. If the DJ has no idea if he has "line outs" or how to get a direct feed, OR you just can't figure it out, I bust out the Sennheiser E604 drum mic and switch my MP3 recorder to (mic setting auto gain). I put the E604 about 2 inches in front of the tweeter and hit record. The drum mic and auto gain setting prevent distortion no matter how loud the DJ cranks it. Not the best form of recording but it's effective and you can EQ low end in post if needed..

Re: Capturing audio from DJ board
 

Ian,, I just posted a question in an another thread about something similar. If i'm taking it off of the speaker how come I cant seem to balance the audio up? Have you ever had this problem?

Steve

Re: Capturing audio from DJ board
 

Stephen, Good question, I guess that depends on your MP3 recorder whether or not it has "line in" volume control. I usually set mine to auto gain because I can't be there to monitor sound and record the speeches at the same time. Sometimes the gain is a bit low but I can bring it up in post without too much audio noise. By the way,to recap on my option 3, here is a picture of the set up.

Re: Capturing audio from DJ board
 

Jeff - I give the DJ a cable that has RCA connectors on their end and a 1/4 jack on the other end that I feed into my zoom H4n. I set the zoom recorder for auto record level control to handle the ups and downs in the output volume that will occur throughout the reception.

Art

Re: Capturing audio from DJ board
 

Jeff cables are cheap so get sufficient to do a stereo set up of RCA, 1/4" and XLR and toss 'em in the trunk. If they are doing a mono set up, well you don't need to hook up as many. A full and complete assortment to hook up to any situation isn't going to cost you $100. They are soooo cheap and sooooo worth having if you need them......just get enough to do anything. Just remember the only cables you can run any sizable distance are going to be shielded XLRs unless you want to run the risk causing or picking up interference.

Re: Capturing audio from DJ board
 

The most common by far, around here at any rate is two x RCA in the board which you typically would connect to the external mic socket on the back of an H4n. A cable like this terminating in a single 3.5mm plug:


You may even have spare RCA cables kicking around if you've moved over to HMDI with your televisions :-)

You'll probably also need a cable to attenuate the input, like this one:

DSLR, PINKNOISE AUDIO CABLE, CANON 5d mk11, CANON AUDIO CABLE, -25DB AUDIO CABLE

And a joiner to connect the two male plugs (the actual cable and the attenuator cable)

I don't use auto on the H4n as it works on the strongest signal it receives and that is sticky. Therefore if the subsequent signal is much lower then the following recording will have Levels that are too low. But expect a jump in the signal when the DJ actually starts the music - higher than when he's testing :- (

I carry loads of other plugs etc in the car but they never get used.

Pete

Re: Capturing audio from DJ board
 

We always, always plug into the DJ's board to capture sound. The Zoom H4N bag we bring with us has one of every possible connector so we are sure to be able to make the connection, except in the unlikely event of the DJ's board having no plugs free. Have not really noticed a quality difference in the type of connection.. unless it is one of the few weddings where we had to either rely on on-camera mikes or the Zoom's mics . The audio then can be hit or miss in those cases. Especially like having one item that is 'set it and forget it' during the day.

Re: Capturing audio from DJ board
 

I always mic one of the speakers and run it into the Olympus DM420. I might do a little EQ/compression, but it always sounds great. I hate having to worry about feeds from the board -- there are too many things that can go wrong.

Re: Capturing audio from DJ board
 

This would be my ideal setup for receptions:

In the audio bag:
3 x Zoom H4n (or any audio recorder)
2 x RCA to minijack cable*
2 x male/male minijack to minijack cable*
2 x male/male 1/4" to minijack cable*
2 x 1/4" Y-splitter (1 male in/ 2 females out)*
2 x minijack Y-splitter (1 male in/ 2 females out)*
4 x 1/4" to RCA adapter*
1 x shotgun mic
1 x lightstand or micstand
1 x wireless lavs kit
1 x headphone for audio monitoring

* = I normally bring more in case of failure

DJ board:
I always ask the DJ what audio feed they have for me and specify that I need it to record toasts & speeches.

Most of the time, they end up telling me that they have an RCA out available so I simply hook it up with my Zoom H4n. Then ask him to do a soundcheck with me by saying a few words in the mic with the same tone he would use when he talks to the crowd. I'd use my headphone to monitor the sound and make sure the mic volume is right.

Sometimes, they'd have no RCA availble so I'd have my 1/4" adapters ready.
If all fails, most DJs have a "phone" or "monitor" output for their own headphones, that's why I bring Y-splitters so I can share that output with them.

DJ speaker:
If the DJ has absolutely no output (or if he's just being difficult) - or simply as a backup to the DJ board setup - I'd have a shotgun mic on a stand, pointing at the DJ speaker at a 45 degree angle and hooked to the second H4n. Obviously, a soundcheck and audio monitoring is a given.

Wireless Lavs for the guest/speaker:
Before any speech or toast, I'd hook the wireless lav on the guest and plug the receiver to my 3rd H4n. I normally ask them not to stay too close to the DJ's speaker to avoid echoes and feedbacks.

With all 3 setups, I'm normally safe with audio for the night.

Re: Capturing audio from DJ board
 

a bit off topic but I just did a wedding with a live band. The feed from the band's soundboard sometimes sounds sterile and the mix can be kind of wierd. When I'm dealing with a band, I'll aways mic up a speaker in addition to the board so I can mix the two to get a good sound.

Art

Re: Capturing audio from DJ board
 

Long, how do you mic up a bridesmaid or the bride when they are speaking? The maid of honor usually gives a toast following the best man, or vice versa, and on occasion the bride will give a thank you speech. I've thought of putting a mic on the best man, of course, but don't bother because I can't do it to the maid of honor, and the sound would be so inconsistent it would be worse, IMO. The maid of honor is usually far enough away from the best man she will not benefit much from the lav mic, at least that is my thinking. What am I missing here?

Re: Capturing audio from DJ board
 

I normally have 2 sets of wireless lavs so I'd simply clip it on both of them.

Most girls are okay clipping the transmitter at the back of their dress during their toast. I always ask a female to clip it for me because I don't want to have any physical contact with them.

Now if you only have one set of wireless lav, I'd clip it on the best man and ask the two of them to stand close to each other during the speeches. To make sure that they will, I normally ask the best man to hold the DJ's microphone for her when she talks and then give her the mic and make her hold it for him when he talks. This also helps me make sure their hand gestures don't make the DJ's mic go too far away from their mouth and they talk.

I've yet to find a better solution but most of the time, I get pretty clean audio from the DJ board or the DJ speaker. Sadly, the wireless lavs normally get a lot of echoes. I haven't found a really good way around this yet.

Re: Capturing audio from DJ board
 

The girls I work with here would not be OK with a mic hanging from the back their dress, and I can't even imagine asking them to hold the mics for each other. Where you are up there in Montreal if might be cool, and there are some occasions it might work here, I'm sure, but as a general rule, no way. Here in Cincinnati, the toasts are usually done from their respective side of the bridal party table, and it would just be awkward as hell. Now occasionally, they certainly do toast from the dance floor and stand together, but even then, I don't know.

I can see it working at a lower end wedding with less sophisticated groups, for sure, where they are more compliant, but with the higher end clients, not so much.

All in all, a good idea though, and I'll keep it in mind, thanks for sharing your methods.

Re: Capturing audio from DJ board
 

I wouldn't know if it's related to the region but I did encounter more difficult people before too.

If this is an overall issue you often encounter with most of your clients' guests my suggestion would be to bring this up with your couples when you meet them before their wedding to explain the way you work and what it takes to capture good audio. If the couples pay you a fair amount to cover their wedding and they care about getting a good quality product, they'd hopefully push their guests to cooperate with you more.

But I would say that so far, all my edits are using audio from either the DJ board or DJ speaker as I normally get the cleanest file from those setups. I haven't found a proper way to get clean audio from the wireless lavs during the reception yet as I always get echoes and feedback. If anyone knows a better solution, I'd love to know too...

Re: Capturing audio from DJ board
 

I can just see one of my couples telling 250 guests at their wedding, "OK you better co-operate with Don the video guy because we want a great video of our wedding". I would probably be knocked around at the very least egged. ;-)

Regardless of the type of finsihed product we produce, doco, cinematic, long form, short form whatever and I've done them all, we are there to cover the event not direct it or change it. When it doesn't go as planned for the couple well guess what. They know it. If the dance floor isn't full because the DJ sucked or the people simply wanted to drink more than dance and it's the same 8 people out on the floor all, the B&G know it. If everyone leave at 11pm instead of staying until the end of the night 12AM the B&G know it. Nothing we do or say or plan can change that.

My point is this. Put a lav on the best man for his toast? Not in this lifetime. All the reasons that others mentioned before will do. Try to mic the maid of honor. Hells bells man, by the time the toasts start so many of them are half lit that they'd either think I was coming on to them or sexually harassing them in which case I would either get beaten up, egged or arrested.

OK I'll be serious. Some plug into the DJs board (I don't anymore but thats me) other mic the DJs speaker(s) (that IS me) and frankly I haven't had any problems with audio at a reception in the over 10? years I've been doing that and for me thats about 600 weddings. I get good clean audio, I don't have to spend a lot of time in post with it (actually almost none except to sometimes adjust levels when the BM or MoH hold the mic down by their stomach) and I don't have to rely on anyone else for proper levels by plugging into the board or trying to get the BM or MoH mic'd.
Now bear in mind that 1) that's in THIS area. Maybe in other areas of the US you can, perhaps in other parts of the world you can, I know things are done differently in AUS than in Chicago. What I'm saying is find what works for you and use it until it doesn't work anymore then find another way.

Re: Capturing audio from DJ board
 

Thanks for the input Don.

I'm honestly pretty surprised to see that micing your guests seems to be such a big hassle in the US (or at least Chicago and Cincinnati). I've personally never had any problem asking people to put a lav mic on them before. It really only takes a few seconds to clip it on and off and people have never been unhappy about it (at least over here in Canada)

Like I mentionned previously, I normally do end up using the audio from the DJ board or speaker most of the time but I just like to have more options whenever I get the chance to.

I had quite a few guests who like to wave the mic around when they talk, resulting in inconsistent audio. Those are moments when I prefer to use the feed from my lav as the distance between the mic and their mouth stays the same and I get a more uniform sound.

I actually do talk about it with my couples during our meetings with them. I guess it's just me, but I like to explain and educate them about the way I work so they understand and know what to expect from me at their wedding. They're normally happy and excited about it.

Most of the time, the wedding planner or DJ would arrange that for me and before any speech or toast, they would give me a few seconds to mic them and we're good to go. I wouldn't really call that directing or changing the course of an event.

But again, I guess it really depends on the people you work with and your own preference on how to do things. We're simply here to share ideas.

Re: Capturing audio from DJ board
 

Now Don, on another note, would you mind sharing your audio setup for ceremonies?

I normally have more problems during ceremonies than reception and I'd like to know what your methods are.

Here's what I normally do:

- omni lav on the groom
- uni lav on the priest
- h4n on the church's sound board (if available)
- shotgun mic on the church's speaker
- shotgun mic on the podium, next to the church's podium mic

Am I overlooking anything?

Re: Capturing audio from DJ board
 

Hey Long, I tend to keep it pretty simple. I use the AudioTechnica 1821 dual channel receiver now (for about 3 years I guess) so I can monitor both wireless systems. I use Countryman EMW lavs. One of course goes on the groom the other (for a typical church wedding-outdoor or hotel type venues require different setups) goes on the pulpit where the readers and officiant will speak from. I kill off the hypercaroid on my A camera in favor of the 2 lavs and use the AT897 on my B and C cameras to pickup the music being played in the church. Generally a shotgun would be the last choice but the music is played pretty loud and one of the cameras is usually close enough that the music track comes out really well. That's a pretty typical ceremony setup for me.
BTW, I admire the fact that you mic up the guests at a reception-frankly I don't have the time as a solo operator or the wherewithall (patience) to do that. Even trying to talk to the MoH and BM about holding the mic close, chin level, most times goes in one ear and out the other and while I might get some inconsistent levels because of that I live with it and, yeah, I fix it in post ( man I hate those words). Anyway I might have been a bit snarky with my response to your post and I do apologize. Old, sick and grumpy...not a good combo ;-)

Re: Capturing audio from DJ board
 

Thanks for sharing Don!

And don't worry about the reply, I rather prefer to hear from other pros what the challenges are so I can get ready to face them if it ever happens to me. Micing my guests is something I do only when I can afford to, but I do try to do it as often as I can. It simply gives me an extra option to choose from. But I do agree that micing the DJ speaker is always a very safe way.

Re: Capturing audio from DJ board
 

You know it just occurred to me, that using a microphone designed for capturing loud sounds without distortion (might be very expensive, I don't know) and finding a way to suspend it directly in front of the djs speaker, from some contraption hanging off the top might be a good way to go, but it would take some ingenuity. I wonder if the speaker magnets would pose an issue, they might.

Or hanging a GH1/GH2 camera (very tiny) or any recording device with microphone from the ceiling from about 10 feet out when you have the ceilings that you can hang things from, might be another way. Our DJs here routinely hang lights from ceilings so it could work for sure. Use a wide angle lens, point the camera downward at the floor, and you'd also have a potentially very cool shot. Downside would be battery would have to be changed out every 90 minutes with my camera, unless they had electric in the ceiling, which some do.

Easier to run from the DJ board of course, but I'm thinking of those cases where it's not feasible for whatever reason.

Re: Capturing audio from DJ board
 

When I mic the DJ speaker, I normally put a rode videomic on a lightstand with a hotshoe mount. This way I can angle it properly. The mic would be plugged to a Zoom H4n so monitoring levels is really simple. I haven't tried hanging anything from the ceiling yet as most receptions I've been to have given me enough room to put a lightstand in front of a DJ speaker. But I've read about someone putting a recorder on top of the DJ speaker and hanging a lav mic down. I personally haven't tried that method yet.

Re: Capturing audio from DJ board
 

Great thread!

I see a lot of people here using the H4N, which is what I've used, I've posted about this many times before but have never gotten an answer. I use a 40db pad on my H4N in hopes that the audio levels won't clip, but 50% of the time they do. The toasts are always fine as they usually speak pretty quietly, but half of the time, the emcee's voice clips because they are shouting into the mic. Also, songs with heavy bass clip a lot as well. How do you guys get around this?

I've written it off as awful DJ's that don't know how to set their levels, because every now and then I get a dj that seems to know his boards well and all of the audio is beautiful with no clipping.

Thoughts?

Re: Capturing audio from DJ board
 

Hey Chris, I normally talk to the DJ before the reception starts and ask him to do a soundcheck with me. I ask him to talk and shout the same way he would when he talks to the crowd so it allows me to read the H4n's LCD screen and make sure nothing's clipping. Then I simply adjust my Rec Level accordingly. I sometimes I have to bring it all the way down to 0.1 if I have to. Since toasts are normally not as loud, I'd simply boost the vocals up in post and I still get a clean audio. I'm no audio expert but it's been working for me so far.

Re: Capturing audio from DJ board
 

Hey Long,

I always do a soundcheck with the DJ, but it seems that they rarely actually boost the audio up to what it will actually be when the reception gets going. I generally put my audio level at -9 and it still clips, if the sound is bad coming out of the dj board, then no matter how low I set my levels the audio still clips. The end result is that I just have quieter clipped audio.

Re: Capturing audio from DJ board
 

Over the years in my quest for a way to capture audio at a reception I tried what felt like every microphone made by man and beast. Someone here recommended a Sennheiser E604 Drum mic (or equivalent) and honestly I haven't looked back since. At about $125.00 give or take a couple of bucks, it has saved my butt more thimes than I can count.
I hang it on a stand install my plugin transmitter which is set to minus6 db and am able to control levels on both the receiver and camera. It has never clipped on me once. I watch my meters and monitor thru cans of course.
The drum mic is made to take the SPLs that you'll get from DJs and bands. Especially when they don't know any level except 11 on a scale of 1 to 10.
For the money it has been one of the best investments I've ever made.
As for placement I never place it towards the bass speaker if the DJ is using one. AAMOF I place it above the center of the speaker (usually on a stand) and keep it about 6 to 8 inches from the speaker grill. The drum mic picks up the lower end of the spectrum very nicely and the hypercaroid I have on my camera picks up the higher end and the room noise. In post I simply split the track and adjust levels individually of the 2 tracks. Played together they go left and right as one would expect.
Lavs and most shotguns aren't made for the levels the DJ puts out and clipping will almost always happen unless you're recording device (Zoom or what have you) is set properly.
I have a 600W surround sound that I've used in the past to learn what a mic can and can't do-some good old rock n' roll set to about 9, camera with media to record the sound, headphones and it's off to the races. Play around with the levels on the cam and receiver until I found the sweet spot and it's worked great for me ever since, about 4 years now IIRC.

Re: Capturing audio from DJ board
 

Most DJ's use speakers that have an XLR out which is used to connect runs of speakers so you don't have to run a cable for each speaker to the board. However, very few DJ's use that output. I just plug in my Sennheiser G2 100 beltpack transmitter and lay it on top of the speaker. Channel one on the camera is the DJ board and channel two is the on-cam mic. Works great. Just apply some gaffer tape to the wireless or it will vibrate off the speaker.

Re: Capturing audio from DJ board
 

Michael,
I've thought about that for quite a while now but have always backed away without some "practice" to know what my levels will be but the idea is sweet. I think over my slow time (December) I'll hook up with one of my DJ friends and use his gear as a "try out" and see how it works out.

Re: Capturing audio from DJ board
 

Thanks for the great tips guys. The XLR out seems like a great idea. I'll definitely give it a try.

Re: Capturing audio from DJ board
 

Don,

Another option is to buy a cheap audio recorder at walmart with a 3/8" mic in plug and a 3/8" to XLR adapter. Shoot everything as you normally would and leave the recorder running to capture the board audio. Yes, you have to sync it up in post but it gives you a third audio option to try if you're worried about it not working on the first try. I did this once and it worked fine. I use this option to plug into the church PA for the ceremony when available. Allows me to use a wireless on the groom, on-cam mic for NAT sound, AND pick up all speakers and officiant in situations when the are not standing next to the groom (Catholic Weddings). Try it, you'll be surprised at the results.

Re: Capturing audio from DJ board
 

Yeah I thought about that as well...Slow season coming up, lots of time to play and test!
Thanks for the tips