Glidecam/Steadycam Question
 

Just curious what others are doing in respect to glidecam/steadycam for weddings. We own one glidecam 4000 but hardly use it. We're anticipating a great wedding season with lots of opportunity to use it.

However, what is your workflow? I just ordered a quick release plate for the top of ours so we can detach from Satchler tripods and mount to the glide camera seamlessly. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/78907-REG/Sachtler_1091_Sandwich_Touch_and_Go.html
Do people recommend full blown suites?

Thanks!

Re: Glidecam/Steadycam Question
 

I have a glidecam HD-4000 but havent really used it yet, was meaning to mount a EOS 7D just for flying at particular moments but so far havent deployed it, Probably need a vest system for it because it gets heavy very quick, theres also the question on whether you actually have the time to get this thing up and running
Also looking into whether a slider might be a good idea!

Re: Glidecam/Steadycam Question
 

Thanks Rob, I actually use a slider for every wedding. I'm looking to up the game a little and start implementing the glidecam for certain moments. However, I'm wondering if most people have a dedicated glide-cam operator or just try to do both?

Re: Glidecam/Steadycam Question
 

I use the Steadicam Pilot (full vest) but use it sparingly. Mainly for creative shots before and after the ceremony and a little bit during the reception. I personally would never use it during the ceremony as I feel it would be very obtrusive and cause the guests to pay more attention to me vs the couple. IMHO, the key is to use it in moderation (same for slider) for creative shots outside of the ceremony. I'm not sure how long it takes to setup and balance the Glidecam but with the Steadicam Pilot...I can achive setup with dynamic balance in about 3-4 minutes so it really doesn't require too much extra time to start "flying". You've got the right idea with your quick release plates. I use Manfrotto QR plates on all of my cameras so it makes it really easy to switch them out between tripods, sliders, steadicams, etc.

Mike

Re: Glidecam/Steadycam Question
 

I use the Glidecam HD4000 with the Steadicam merlin/pilot vest and arm.
Without the arm/vest, I just find it too heavy to hold for more than 10 sec. I've used it for the photo shoots and reception. The disadvantage is that it takes about 5 min to put on and setup. I use it with the Manfrotto quickrelease since that is my tripod.

Re: Glidecam/Steadycam Question
 

I must admit I only use my rig now during the photoshoot!! Once the photog has finished formals I grab the B&G and take them on a 10 minute stroll and shoot enough creative footage to put to the bride's favourite romantic song.

I have tried using the rig (full vest BTW) on bridal entry but it's not practical anymore ..Churches with narrow aisles are not the best. It would be nice during the first dance but again few venues have enough space so it's only for the photoshoot now!! Getting in and out of a rig during events takes time too!!

If it's really a strong desire then something tiny like a handheld Merlin or Blackbird with a small camera on it all set up and ready to grab, is probably a better plan!! You could use that at receptions and even ceremonies!!

Chris

Re: Glidecam/Steadycam Question
 

It all boils down to time basically. Prior to the ceremony you have time to set up and balance properly.

I have the HD4000 with X-10 and vest (I couldn't possibly work without the vest due to the weight of the Z5)

Film the guests arriving and then into church/venue whilst 2nd camera films bride arrival.

After ceremony, back on with vest and on to photo shoot.

It's important to make sure that the rig is still balanced, it's no good just putting it on and hoping for the best, I rest it on a balance stand and make sure it's fully balanced before using otherwise the slightest off balance will ruin the effect.

Peter

Re: Glidecam/Steadycam Question
 

I do weddings solo but use the blackbird mainly starting from the reception, with my 550d and a samyang 14mm it's a very lightwheight set up. A very big plus is that it's got a resting stand so you can, unlike a Merlin, just put it aside on the floor with the camera still attached to it. Balancing is also very quickly done.

I don't take it with me before the reception, too much of a hassle, maybe during bride prep, if I got the time and space but once the reception starts I think 30% of my shots are done with the blackbird.

Re: Glidecam/Steadycam Question
 

a lot depends on what you want to fly - if you're shooting DSLR's then you shouldn't need an arm & vest - I used the pilot from time to time but it's way too time consuming to set up & break down. I've used the merlin a lot and now I use the glidecam 1000HD - I shoot with Panasonic GH1's and leave one set up on the glidecam. ALL my equipment (tripods, slider,etc) have the same quick release place - you'd be crazy not to.

I use the glidecam during prep, ceremony if possible and reception - always sparingly and not long shots, just for a bit of movement

Re: Glidecam/Steadycam Question
 

If you are shooting DLSR, I would say no to any vest. Way too much time. Just practice with it. I have a manfrotto quick release plate for the glidecam 4000. I balance everything before the wedding or shoot...depending on the look, I shoot with a 14mm, 24mm or 50mm...some out there shoot longer glass.

The key for me has been planning ahead. Draw out an idea of when you would like to use it and set up your shoot accordingly. Just dragging it along hoping for something will rarely yield good results.

Good Luck!

Re: Glidecam/Steadycam Question
 

I don't know if many other people have done this so I thought I'd share. The ideal glidecam, I thought, should be one that is custom fitted for my DSLR. A custom fitted glidecam weighs less because it has no top adjustable assembly. I simply removed the top adjustable assembly and mounted the quickrelease directly to the top plate (and cut the top plate to fit). The only adjustable feature I ever seem to need is inline with the quick release and there's enough play front to back in the release to work with all the lenses I glide with. Surprisingly both my 7D and 5D balance fine on it.

But I'm sure I'm not the only person that's looked at that whole top adjustable assembly and said "do I really need all that crap?"

Re: Glidecam/Steadycam Question
 

Gents, thanks for all the feedback and the info on your workflow. I seriously don't know how else to use a glide-cam without the proper balancing and quick release plates you're talking about. I use DSLRs so I don't think I'll need a vest.
Do you find that you're in the way of the photographer a lot?
I've been following this guy for a while: Portfolio of our work featuring wedding highlights, trailers and videos | GmElliott Videography
He's not too high-end and not low-end for the type of product I'm looking to re-create. I feel he's in the shot quite a bit for the average photographer. Aisle shots, photo session and first dance...

Do you guys generally have an initial meet and greet with the photog and let them know what you're up to?

Thanks!

Re: Glidecam/Steadycam Question
 

ofcourse he's in the shot quite a bit, he's just doing his job, you could say the same about the videographer from the photographers point of view.

Weddings are no movie where you tell all actors and crew members where to stand, you just have to try real hard to get nice shots in a uncontrolled environment, the only thing I tell the photog is to not block my second unmanned camera in the church too long and the only place where you can have complete control is during the photoshoot, all the rest is run and gun, trying to frame your shots just right and hoping it all turns out alright. :)

Re: Glidecam/Steadycam Question
 

Hi Noa

My photogs are never in the video shoot!! What I do is when we get to the first location I grab the bride and groom and wisk them away and do a 10 minute shoot..just the three of us. The couple are then returned to the photog and I go and set up at the reception.

I have never believed in following the photog around shooting video of the photog taking still photos..it doesn't make sense to me!!! Also that means I'm not in the photogs way and he/she isn't in my way...I let them get on with their job after my shoot and they are always happy about it!!

Chris

Re: Glidecam/Steadycam Question
 

How do you adjust for side-to-side trim?

Re: Glidecam/Steadycam Question
 

I wonder too,
without that 'crap'?

Re: Glidecam/Steadycam Question
 

I have no need to ever trim in side-to-side direction. The release is positioned so that the cam is perfectly balanced side-to-side. A different lens requires front to back adjustment only, which I do on the fly because there's enough play/slack for the release plate positioning within the release.

Re: Glidecam/Steadycam Question
 

When I change lenses on my 550d/blackbird (I use a canon 10-22 or a Samyang 14mm) I have to make adjustments sideways each time to get it balanced again so in my case your solution would not work.

Re: Glidecam/Steadycam Question
 

Hi Noa,

I assure you the only weight imbalance from one lens to the next is front to back, not side to side. Cylindrical glass and the cylindrical components around it are not appreciably heavier on one side than the other. And because the outer part of the lens is so close to the center axis of the lens (in proportion to the entire load above and below the gimbal) this marginalizes the impact if there is, hypothetically, a weight difference from one side of the lens the other. So what's the reason for your re-balancing? I think there's a good chance that if I had your glidecam in front of me I could prove to you it's not 'perfectly' balanced side to side. As a test, I attached 6 different lenses to my cam and it balanced perfectly side to side with all of them.

Re: Glidecam/Steadycam Question
 

that is not true, I certainly wish it was that way, and I could adopt your less complicated setup, but unfortunately, I need to keep "that crap" for side to side adjustment

Re: Glidecam/Steadycam Question
 

Hi Buba,

I attended a conference with guest speaker Joe Simon, who took the time to demo his gear. He demonstrated how quickly he can swap lenses on his glide, and (as I expected) going from one lens to the next he made heel n toe adjustments ONLY.

This is because, if you divide any lens in half along it's long (front to back) axis, the weight of each half will be nearly identical. The (hypothetical) imbalance (if measurable) is so close to the lens axis in proportion to the load above and below the gimbal it would have a negligible effect - something in proportion to taping a penny to a bowling ball.

If you are making side-to-side adjustments from one lens to the next, it's more likely that the lighter of the two lenses is masking the imperfect side to side balance you have to start with. If I had your glidecam in front of me, I think I could prove that you don't have perfect side to side balance to begin with.

Re: Glidecam/Steadycam Question
 

I do see a small flaw in my argument if you had a significant weight difference between lenses since the lens axis and the camera axis are offset. But real world, I switch lenses and don't see or feel any difference, at least with the lenses I glide with which are all very close in weight.

Re: Glidecam/Steadycam Question
 

Joe Simon? Damn, I missed that!
thank you Craig,
even though I am not even advanced steadicam user, but at least i know how to balance
when your have perfect balance and your drop time is around 3 seconds just a few gramms will through your rig out of it;
aha! now we're talkin :)
if it works for you that's great, but what if you need to use different camera, or you add/remove some accessory, of course it is only my opinion, but fixing mounting plate to the central post is not something I would do , or recommend to anybody;
AND, i need side re-balance switching from 14mm to 24-70mm

Re: Glidecam/Steadycam Question
 

I have yet to see any stabilizer, big or small, of any brand, that didn't require minute adjustment in either lateral axis throughout the course of the day. As I recall, the handheld Glidecams require one to add weight or lower the center post rather than adjust the gimbal when rebalancing. This changes the weight ratios of the system significantly and it's unfathomable to me that it wouldn't require fine side to side adjustment, especially since (again, by memory) the Glidecam posts aren't indexed or have a keyway so it's possible for the lower section to be rotated very slightly out of square any time you adjust the length of the post.

With as low a payload as a DSLR, fine tuning of balance is exponentially more critical. I never used a small stabilizer of any type that didn't require constant fine-tuning. Any sized stabilizer, for that matter.

Re: Glidecam/Steadycam Question
 

He demonstrated how fast he can swap lenses. I can't remember what he switched from and to but in about 8 seconds he detached a lens, attached another, made a heel/toe adjustment, done.

Not referring to drop time. Referring to perfect balance side to side.

Are you making adjustments throughout the day with the same lens? I don't understand why. Either it's balanced or it's not balanced. The camera doesn't get heavier on one side as the card fills up. :) Maybe your adjustable plate assembly is slipping?


I am curious Buba, is your Glidecam balanced so the lens is at a slight downward angle?

Re: Glidecam/Steadycam Question
 

Fathom it. I just weighed my lenses on a 0-5lb digital postage scale. Sigma 20mm (with clear filter) = 1lb 3.3ozs. Rokinon 14mm = 1lb 3.4oz. I held the glide parallel to vertical site level and I see no difference between the two.

But really, instead of shooting down the whole concept Charles... let's say the side adjustment is major for whomever is considering the modification... slot the two holes and use wingnuts - problem solved. They could even take it a step further and scribe a line to mark the position for each lens so there is no guesswork when they are run and gun. Now you can highly recommend it. lol

Incidentally, removing the top plate not only reduces some weight (fatigue) - it adds more capability to glide low to the ground because the handle is not obstructed by an over-sized adjustable assembly.

Re: Glidecam/Steadycam Question
 

Craig, I can only speak from my experience with my blackbird steadicam but just to see how your claim works in my case I just set my steadicam up and balanced it with a canon 10-22mm lens, I don't have my samyang 14mm with me now as it has been send in for repairs but for test purpose I used my samyang 85mm, it's about the same size but a bit heavier then the canon, same as for the 14mm from samyang which also wheighs more.

For the canon lens I only had to use 1 big wheight on each side of the horizontal tube (couldn't get it to balance with 2 wheights which is also because of my very light 550d), I balanced it perfectly side to side and front to back, then I placed my 85mm on and front to front adjustment did not help at all because the drop time had been affected meaning I had to add 1 additional small wheight on each side and I had to reposition the vertical tube in order to get my 3 sec drop time again. Once that was done I balanced front to back and side tot side (which I didn't touch) it was a few cms off so I had to rebalance quite a bit.

So like I said earlier, your claim does not work at all with my steadicam, it's not just a matter of switching lighter with heavier lenzes and just adjusting front to back on the top plate only but since the drop time is affected as well that is just not possible.

What type of glidecam are you using ?

Even better, why not weld together your own steadicam, who needs that presicion mechanics anyway ;) Just the slightest turn of the knob on the side of the topplate of my blackbird and it's off balance sideways and that's just a micro adjustment. I can balance my blackbird quite quickly but I do need those micro adjustment capability to balance it perfectly.

Re: Glidecam/Steadycam Question
 

Ok, another go, this time I exchanged the 85mm samyang with a 17-85mm canon, the canon was just a little bit more front heavy so I did not have to change the wheights and droptime was still ok but after balancing from to back to front, side to side balance was off, not much but needed to turn the side knob a quarter to get it right again, then went back to the samyang and same scenario.

So for me at least your trick does not work.

Re: Glidecam/Steadycam Question
 

Can you take a full photo of your stabilizer or tell us what brand it is? Having used both a Merlin and Glidecam I have never been able to balance it WITHOUT side-to-side adjustments...even the act of placing your camera on the QR plate would cause some balance issues each time you put it on, unless you're amazing and can get it to the exact perpendicular angle to the body of the camera every time you take it off and put it back on...

Re: Glidecam/Steadycam Question
 

Hi Noah,

My post is specific to the Glidecam. I posted a picture of a Glidecam. I used the word "Glidecam."

If I had a Blackbird I would NOT remove the adjustable assembly because it's already a small compact design - there's nothing to gain.

The difference is that the Glidecam's upper assembly is massive/bulky.


I'll gladly take what Glidecam offers and customize it.

Obviously, removing a top plate assembly and refitting with a release plate is no where in the neighborhood of the expertise/materials required to design a complete gimbal system.

Re: Glidecam/Steadycam Question
 

Sorry everyone. My posts are only pertaining to the Glidecam (it has a large/bulky adjustable assembly).

Re: Glidecam/Steadycam Question
 

And I used the word blackbird and you called it a glidecam in your following post, also your pictures only shows a part of a vertical rod with a quickrelease adapter on top of it, I at least can't see a glidecam in that, I only asked because glidecam is often used a a general word for anything that floats. :)

Pls explain, my blackbird has 2 levels (with these airbubbels inside) for vertical and horizontal controll, if both bubbels are in the centre then it means the blackbird is perfectly balanced, what more can you "prove" here?

you also assured, in my case with my 550d/blackbird, that any weight imbalance from one lens to the next is front to back, not side to side and I have proven that statement is not correct, so now you say that statement only applies to a glidecam?

Re: Glidecam/Steadycam Question
 

The geometry of balancing a Steadicam/Glidecam is far more complicated than simply balancing it left/right then balancing it fore/aft as the very act of balancing on one axis will take off-balance in the other. That is why people are forever twiddling with the adjusters in between each shot because basically it's never perfect just approximately so until some tiny thing upsets the balance again.

Re: Glidecam/Steadycam Question
 

Like when the camera gets heavier on one side as the card fills up? ;)

All joking aside, I would be interested to learn what exactly you do to get your glidecam balanced like it should, untill now you just talked about swapping lenzes and doing front to back adjustments only without even mentioning droptime as that also get's affected. What else do you do to balance your glidecam so it never loses side to side balance again, even when swapping lighter with heavier lenzes?

Re: Glidecam/Steadycam Question
 

i used to be a "sinner" in that matter, but as soon as I discovered importance of dynamic balance all my rigs are balanced properly

Re: Glidecam/Steadycam Question
 

Aligning a camera on any given axis EXACTLY so that you don't need to rebalance side to side is impossible. Joe Simon probably created that illusion by setting up the rig very bottom heavy.

Re: Glidecam/Steadycam Question
 

Theoretically it could be possible to get away without side to side balance if everything is truly square on the rig. In reality, EVERY rig has a certain amount of play and "gremlins" that will require one to fine-tune to achieve perfect balance. The Glidecams are no exception; in fact they are known to have non-linear gimbals which cause the rig to lean one way or another when you rotate the rig 90 degrees.

Over my 25 years in the saddle I owned something like seven rigs, starting with Model 1 pictured below (damn, was I young) which didn't have side-to-side adjustment--you swung the battery on the sled left and right on a pivot--up to the latest and greatest. Every single one required trimming even when nothing had been altered on the sled. The classic ritual of a Steadicam operator before a shot is twiddling the knobs; it's a given. I got to the point where I would do it while walking from the dock to my first mark, even after lens changes where I'd have to adjust the gimbal, check drop time and tweak the top stage, right up to the slate coming in.

My experience is far more limited with the smaller handheld rigs like the Merlin, Glidecam and Blackbird but I've certain played with them enough to know that they are even more critical to the nuance of balance. I long berated the Glidecam guys at trade shows about their coarse stage adjustments; eventually they incorporated the screw mechanism to allow finer tuning. So the "problem solved" suggestion from Craig regarding a slotted stage wouldn't be a solution I'd recommend to anyone--needing to nudge the camera a millimeter while fussing with all that would get old really quick.

Craig: bottom line is that if it works for you, cheers and congratulations. I'm concerned about others who might jump on this train and find themselves with crippled rigs with no resale possibilities and limitations in functionability. I would suggest that anyone considering this mod analyze whether they EVER find themselves trimming side-to-side during the course of a shoot--if the answer is "no" (again--for me, unfathomable), have at it and report back how it's going for you.

Re: Glidecam/Steadycam Question
 

OK, I am going to have to revise my opinion a little here. The other day I tried using a colleague's Glidecam that had been hacked in this way so that the only adjustment was fore/aft on a Manfrotto quick release plate & it was actually pretty usable. I wouldn't say that it balanced perfectly & he also fiddled about with the large washers that are the weights as a means of correcting lateral balance. However it was relatively easy given the light weight & the fact that it was just being use for floaty effects shots to guide it with the left hand so that the bad balance didn't matter too much.

Re: Glidecam/Steadycam Question
 

You Guys MUST be good.

My rig is balanced fore and aft and left and right and is also tweaked during the shoot too!! I'd hate to have to fight a rig that wanted to lean to the left or the right (or tilt up or down) The whole idea is that one hand is on the handle (in my case the handle at the end of the spring arm as I use a vest) and the other uses just 3 fingers to not adjust any imbalance but simply control the rotation and tilt. I can go hands free at anytime and the sled simply sits where it is..that's the whole idea. I do agree that you CAN load the bottom stage and that will offset a lot of balance problems but then your drop time is less than a second so the whole concept is spoilt....you need balance on both axis plus a drop time of at least 2.5 - 3.0 seconds. If it's any more than that then you might as well buy/make the "poor man's stedicam" which is a piece of galv water pipe with a weight underneath, cam mount on top and a "T" piece to hold..it will do the same job as an unbalanced or overweighted pro rig and be a lot cheaper

Chris

Re: Glidecam/Steadycam Question
 

This will only work if the CG of the camera happens to be exactly at the center line of the lens. In my experience this is not true for most DSLR's. If it is not, changing lenses will change the actual side to side CG of your setup. A bigger affect will be seen in the dynamic balance of the rig. Which brings up something, you all are dynamically balancing your rigs and not just achieving static balance right?