Priests That Won't Wear Mics - How do you Cope?
 

I always, always suggest to brides that they ask their officiant or priest to wear a microphone, but it seems like we still run into that very old-fashioned, strict Catholic priest that flat out says "no". I even had one church this year have us sign an agreement that said "No Microphones" all together, a rule I clearly broke because there was NO WAY the groom was not wearing one.

I always inform the brides / couples that the best audio comes from a mic on the groom and a mic on the priest and that if the priest is unwilling that we will do our best but it won't be great -- especially in huge, echoing churches.

So far I've had no problems or complaints whatsoever, but I'm just curious if you have any solutions or ideas to pick up the priest better. During the vows and intro, usually he is standing right in front of the couple and the groom's mic is enough. But particularly during the homily, most priests walk around, face different directions, etc...making even a shotgun mic on our closest camera somewhat useless.

Re: Priests That Won't Wear Mics - How do you Cope?
 

You signed an agreement to not use microphones, then did?

You can pursued, ask nicely, explain the reasons, but in the end - the priest is free to do whatever they want. The wedding takes place on their property, under their control, and as such - everyone else is there with their permission. If a priest takes this line, then the bride and groom should have got married somewhere more accommodating if the issue is that important. If you agree to do something, and sign to this affect - apart from the legal issues, it really means the priest means it.

Thank goodness I'm not in the wedding world. In my one, if I have to sign confidentiality agreements I keep quiet, and if I'm told not to shoot certain things, I follow these rules. Breaking these rules would mean no more work for me. Obviously in the wedding world your word is not your bond - say anything to get the job done, and damn anybody else's feelings - or do I read this wrong?

Surely, you just tell the bride/groom these rules have been put in place, explain what it means and then leave it to them, and you do the best you can?

I can imagine how these people must feel having their methods challenged in this way.

Re: Priests That Won't Wear Mics - How do you Cope?
 

Wow...OK, I didn't post this expecting to get lectured on rules and ethics...but thanks for that.

The bride herself presented this agreement to me and without me even bringing it up already knew the groom would be wearing a microphone. She was the one that said we would be breaking that rule, not me...I can't imagine anyone else here not putting a mic on the groom either. What was I to do? Tell her "I'm sorry I can't film your wedding"

The agreement was to be signed by the photographer too,and turns out he didn't sign one at all...guess I'm the stupid one for even signing it in the first place. The fact is, that agreement was made by someone a long time ago on a power trip who probably had a negative experience with too many people and too much equipment and our style is not obtrusive in any way at all. Also, I don't know who's feelings possibly could have been hurt??? There was NO ONE there that day to tell us what to do, what we couldn't do or where we couldn't go, and no one seemed to care about anything...if, like the photographer, I had never even seen the agreement, it would have been (and actually was) business as usual.

Of course, had I not put a lav on the groom, there was also (shocker!) a shotgun mic on my camera...No mics!! Guess there was no way around that microphone rule without breaking my own contract.

My contract is with the BRIDE and GROOM, not the church. If there had been any issues, it is clearly stated in my contract that it is up to them to figure them out!

If anyone has any audio advice, would LOVE to hear it.

Re: Priests That Won't Wear Mics - How do you Cope?
 

Katie, I agree the "agreement" was curious, to put it mildly. I could use other descriptive words but I'll keep it civil here. To judge you for dealing with the situation in the best interests of your customer would be unfair and pointless. You handled things the best way you could at the time. It is always easy to second guess after the fact. You handled things just fine.

You could try putting a recorder on the lectern, which I do, and it can help in some cases when the priest doesn't stray to far from it.

You can also put a recorder near a loudspeaker anywhere in the church, which can yield surprisingly good results.

Always enjoy hearing from you, your posts are always relevant and thought-provoking, thank you.

Re: Priests That Won't Wear Mics - How do you Cope?
 

I agree with Jeff. Frankly I think Paul overstepped here. We all do things differently and since no one got hurt or died as a result of your actions I personally have no problem with them.
As for mic'ing the officiant, I don't. I mic the groom and use a unit on the pulpit. Between those and my shotgun on my B cam for the music I generally have no issue with audio.

Re: Priests That Won't Wear Mics - How do you Cope?
 

Thanks for the input...often we do only mic the groom and there has been very little issue with audio...but like I said, there's that small percent that sometimes we can't pick up what we want from the groom's mic.

Another issue with this is that occasionally while the priest is mid-sermon, the groom might lean over and whisper to the bride -- actually I was thinking I was going to have smooth sailing all the way through the sermon, even when he strayed from the groom's mic it was still going to be easy to boost it up, and then with about 2 minutes to go in the sermon, the groom did just that!

At this particular wedding we did have a zoom on the lectern, but the priest just veered too far away from it to get anything useful. Some catholic churches have two lecterns, I'm thinking maybe a zoom on each would be good. I also have planted one in front of a speaker as you suggest Jeff, but unfortunately they were ceiling mounted this time.

I wish there were some amazing audio filter to remove echo! I just really hate the change in tone from a mic'd up groom to a non mic'd officiant, which is why we really try to mic them both when possible. Thanks, Don and Jeff, for your input, I appreciate it as always!

Re: Priests That Won't Wear Mics - How do you Cope?
 

In that scenario I'll be using a xlr shotgun mic feed on my Tascam DR-100 and aim it close to where the speaker system is. If its top on the ceiling, I aim it towards there, It may not be the best solution, but the acoustic audio is far better compared to the onboard camera mic.

Re: Priests That Won't Wear Mics - How do you Cope?
 

You're right about not being able to remove echo - so maybe try adding a little to the groom's mic. I find it makes it sound as if they are in the same place.

Re: Priests That Won't Wear Mics - How do you Cope?
 

Hi Katie

Refusing all microphones is downright crazy!! There is no point in having vows if you can't record them..Most priests here (Catholic especially) won't wear a mic so I usually mic the groom and also the lectern from where they do the readings..we have a priest here who wanders around the entire Church doing his homily so my solution there is simple..I just leave it out!!! Most brides seem only insistant that the vows are heard clearly ..they are normally not too fussed about the prayers and sermons from the priest but always want the readings!!

With a situation like that as long as you inform the bride of the situation she won't expect any miracles..then again I have a preist who always asks me .."Where would you like me to do the Homily" ..He is easy to work with and he normally does the Gospel and Homily from the lectern but then again he is very "video savvy"

Chris

Re: Priests That Won't Wear Mics - How do you Cope?
 

For some reason Catholic churches seem to be equipped with the very worst PA systems and I also find most priests will wear their system mic. but not another one. I mic the groom with a Sennheiser Ew100 and find that that is sufficient to capture the priest as well, I have another transmitter on the lectern for any family or friends' readings. I don't include the priests official preamble, or the homily unless the couple specifically ask for it to be included if for instance he is a family friend, I do tell them this beforehand. So in effect I record the entrance with the live music as played, the brief welcome by the priest - "We are here today to witness etc, etc., then cut to the vows and exchange of rings, only readings from the lectern if they are personal and just one verse of each hymn.
I have had churches that have imposed the no extraneous mic rule, and I'm afraid that against the trend here, I abide by it. If I know a particular church or minister has strict rules I make it clear to my clients at the enquiry stage, the booking stage and at the final meeting before their wedding that I will only work within the permission they get from the church. I'll happily discuss the situation with their officiant before but never deliberately go against an agreement. I found in early years that many vicars banned video because they found operators would ignore their rules so it was easier just to say no. I think that if I present myself as a professional I should act like one.

Re: Priests That Won't Wear Mics - How do you Cope?
 

Yes, George, the abbreviated Catholic wedding is my preference too. Unfortunately this season already I've had two brides (this one included) request the full mass.

Just to be clear, the situation with the no microphone rules wasn't as if I signed the agreement and then maliciously went behind everyone's back to get the job done. Neither myself or the bride knew of this rule when they booked us. When she presented the agreement she herself brought up the fact that she knew the groom would have a mic, and I even hesitated to sign it, explaining to her that she needed to figure that part out with the church, and she assured me that it would be "taken care of."

The day of the wedding, as I said, it was pretty much business as usual, so I did my job, assuming she did her part to get everything "taken care of." Since no one stopped the wedding to take the mic off our groom, I can only assume she must have either gotten permission, or no one cared! That would be my guess.

But being a professional, I carried out my end of the deal without causing scene or harm. That's most important in my book.

Re: Priests That Won't Wear Mics - How do you Cope?
 

Hi Katie.

I didn't mean to imply that you weren't being professional. As a professional we do have to find our way through or around obstacles to get the job done and I understand that sometimes it's more expeditious to squeeze through barriers than make a stand, especially when the barrier appears to have been put there for no good reason. If you look through my back post you'll find that I've had to deal with some spurious and illogical rules put in place by (particularly Catholic) clergy.

The point I was making about the stance I take - and it is only my personal approach - is that in the small area that I work in it has taken some time to foster a trusting working relationship with clergy whereby I usually can get my way but I've had occasions where someone has come along with an "I'm here to get what I need at any cost" attitude which has set things back, including a recent - no video rule - at a church which previously had been very welcoming. I have posted about this at length a while ago.

I just prefer to be open with clients from the start. I advise every enquirer to notify the church that they are thinking of video before even booking me, and on booking they sign to confirm that they have sought and obtained permission from the church and are aware of any restrictions.

Re: Priests That Won't Wear Mics - How do you Cope?
 

That is good advice George, thank you...I don't mean to sound offended, I do think it is a great idea to tell them to contact their church first. We do have in our contract that they should find out rules and regulations first, but we may start emphasizing that before they sign.

I can't imagine a "no video" rule. As a Catholic bride myself, I got married in the church I grew up in, and it was just something that was certain from the day I got engaged -- as I'm sure it is for a lot of Catholic brides. It would be very hurtful to not be able to have the event captured on video somewhere that is so close to a family's life and traditions. Let's hope that doesn't catch on!

Re: Priests That Won't Wear Mics - How do you Cope?
 

Glad we've not fallen out Katie, sometimes when just expressing an opinion it can come across as being a bit preachy. I don't mean to suggest that my way is the right way, merely that it's the way I do things.

The priest who had the no video rule had always said that his homily was not to be filmed, which I always abided by; as I said before I don't usually include that anyway, but he'd had a few weddings where that was ignored by the videographers. Rather than make an issue of it during the ceremony, or try to find out before who the videographer was going to be, he eventually instigated his ban.

That priest has now moved on to another church and the new one is fine with video.

I think that here in UK there is a different attitude to personal videos and many older clergy are not very comfortable with it. Though it's getting rarer there are still some churches that won't allow it and most do permit it with firm restrictions.

Re: Priests That Won't Wear Mics - How do you Cope?
 

I'm still stunned by that remark. It appears that you think the only point in having a marriage ceremony is to provide set pieces to film. I can only hope I have completely misunderstood you somehow.

Re: Priests That Won't Wear Mics - How do you Cope?
 

It is unfortunate that we take pieces of posts and cirticize, judge people over things of no importance in the context of the original post.

From a video perspective, there is no point to the vows if they cannot be recorded, Colin, because the customer is paying and expecting them to be recorded. You know this as well as anyone.

Katie has already been criticized, directly, or indirectly already on "ethical" grounds, which was so unnecessary. And maybe it was "unintentional' but once we type something we cannot take it back.

Now we enter a new phase in this discussion where we must watch our wording lest we offend the institution of marriage. It should have been plain what Chris meant, it was to me.

I suggest we stop nitpicking here. If this were an in person conversation it would have had a completely different, more helpful tone. It is so easy to type whatever we think without considering the feelings of the person on the other end, and I hate to see it.

Re: Priests That Won't Wear Mics - How do you Cope?
 

The reason why some churches totally ban microphones is because many years ago, I heard of this story; a videographer tested his wireless microphone, and everything was fine. When it was time for the ceremony to start, the organist started playing the procession music, the bride was walked down the aisle, the minister turned on his microphone to welcome everyone, and immediately got deafening white noise and pops. Thinking the battery was dead, he went back to his office to change it. He came out again, turned on his mic, and had the same problem. He became frustrated and began to set up a wired microphone. There was no audio technician around to help him. As he was scrambling about, the videographer went up to the priest and told him something. The priest tried his wireless mic again, and it worked! Turns out that the videographer's mic was on the same frequency as the church's. But back then, there was no such thing as being able to switch frequencies. In this scenario, using a wireless microphone ruined the wedding. Of course, all videographers check and know how to change frequencies, right? Maybe not. This is one example of how one rotten apple can ruin the entire barrel for everyone else.

Re: Priests That Won't Wear Mics - How do you Cope?
 

I always place a zoom h4 on the altar, a zoom h1 with such a clipon mic on a lectern, a iriver on the groom and another zoom h1 on a tripod at a sound speaker and that usually covers all. In Belgian churches you never can provide a mic on the priest but they are not strict about the microphones I provide at all.

In Churches in the Netherlands it's a different story and it occurs that it's not allowed to film in church at all meaning one hour lunch break for me :)

I have had one Dutch priest asking me to take away my zoom h4 from the altar and the zoom h1 from the lectern and he specifically instructed me not to move beyond the altar which was very stupid as it was a first communion of a 6 year old and the kid was sitting, back to the altar, facing the guests where I was not allowed. This meant I couldn't film the kid during the communion as from my point of view I could see him.

When the communion started I slowly moved to the side anyway, very slowly, just far enough to see the kid and was able to get my footage, if the priest would have reacted and send me back, I would have moved back and stayed there. The kids mum and dad at least knew I tried as they hired me to film the communion only. I mean, what the use I they can't see their kid? I know it's all about the communion and not the videorecording, but the parents found it vital to have a video memory of that event.

Afterwards they said they where happy I moved to get a better view from their kid because they were afraid to mention anything to the priest, my soundquality from the guests and priest was absolutely crap as I had to use the onboard micro from the camera but they understood as it was at the priest request but they where very disappointed that he was so strict. Actually they should have discussed this with the priest before, they did warn me before the communion that the priest was not an easy guy but that was an understatement :)

It's often difficult as there can be a conflict in what your client expects and what the priest will allow, I think you should respect the set limits but cross those limits a little bit, just enough so you can get the best of it without disturbing the ceremony. If the priest would say no audio at the wedding I would mic the groom anyway, the groom is not his property and a microphone is the same like a flower attached to his vest, but I think when you use a wireless transmitter you need to be absolutely sure it is on a different frequency then the church audio, but if you use something like a iriver, that's no problem as I see it and not up to the the priest to decide about.

Re: Priests That Won't Wear Mics - How do you Cope?
 

It wasn't my intention to offend Katie, and if I did, I'm very sorry for her feeling slighted.

The tale above does make me - as the wedding outsider, feel that what seems to matter is the video, and everything else is subsidiary. I'm happy to accept that perhaps I just don't understand the wedding side of the video business, but it's clear most people here have the alternate viewpoint to me. Maybe I'd be happier working for these kinds of priests, rather than against them?

Surely - if the priest won't be miked then some kind of plan B will work. Hiding a recorder is one but maybe you could try something a bit more radical with the cooperation of the bridegroom. Presumably they have a run through so the positioning of the priest, in relation to the bride/bridegroom could be predicted?

If you know you have a rigid priest in advance, could you hide a small diameter directional mic in the flower 'thing' the bride carries, or devise some way of hiding a cardioid on the groom? I'm thinking of something small perhaps the lav type cardioid that could be concealed 'bug' fashion. Distance to the priest is the key, but if the couple are in front of him, something concealed could work. How about one of the small, see though parabolic dishes? There has to be a plan B.

There now is a de-reverb plug-in for most daws now AND it's not hugely expensive.
zynaptiq: videos
Pretty useful tool, and the audio recording people rave about it.

Paul

Re: Priests That Won't Wear Mics - How do you Cope?
 

Why should you hide a mike on the groom? Just attach it to his vest before he enters the church, problem solved and forget about providing the bride a mike, that's not done.
Like I said you only need to be absolutely sure it won't interfear with the church audio system, that's all, the priest doesn't own the groom and what he is wearing, he can always tell the priest it's a good luck pin if the priest would ask :)

Re: Priests That Won't Wear Mics - How do you Cope?
 

To sum it up... there are a lot of amateurs out there who foul it up for the professional shooter, resulting in rules that are overbroad, arbitrary and constricting to the point that video may not even be an option.

This is why a pro will be prepared to inform the bride and groom to find out the "house rules" (it's not GOD's house, it's the priests'... just in case there's confusion, and so it's "his rules", not HIS rules). IF there is a conflict, a pro can at least try to approach the "ruler" and see if there is a compromise or acceptable solution that can be worked out in advance. I'm sure that more than a few priests/pastors have seen amateurs come in and show ZERO respect for the sanctity of "the house" - imagine if someone came into "your place" and acted badly or with lack of respect... you'd have rules too!



The practical...

A small recorder/lav mic on the groom will usually suffice to get the most critical audio, along with a couple other strategically placed digital recorders, thus avoiding the wireless interference (my vote for why there is a "rule" against mics), and frankly it's why I don't use wireless (other than a couple bluetooth ones that shouldn't interfere with anything). Risk of interference is just too high with wireless, but that's my opinion...

Small cameras that can be placed discretely and let free run so there's no "operator" moving around to be distracting should be in the kit - at least you'll have SOMETHING, and you can show your desire to be "invisible" and discrete, while still getting the footage. I've stuck handycams in/behind flower arrangements... no one would even know they are there!

Dress professionally, preferably in a way you won't be "seen", act professionally and with deference to the keepers of "the house". Be prepared to explain your technique and respectfully point out (and explain in a NON-techie way) how it WON'T create a problem, where others HAVE. Always have a "plan B" in case arbitrary rules turn out to be absolute, rather than preventative against unprofessional conduct!

Rules tend to come about because of a BAD experience ("there oughta be a law!"), and may or may not be sensible, reasonable, or even thoughtful (happens even at the highest level of government, people LIKE to make rules without thinking about the consequences!). A professional should be prepared to deal with such things, and the responses here show what a PRO "video-o-grapher" needs to have in their "toolkit". IF you haven't shot a wedding, you wouldn't know enough to offer an opinion, and if you've shot a few, you already probably know the drill...

Re: Priests That Won't Wear Mics - How do you Cope?
 

Thanks for the backup Jeff

Yes, no point in bickering in a thread at all!! It was pretty obvious I'm sure that I did mean that there is no point filming the vows without any audio.

Now I can understand fully a priest becoming upset about mics clashing!! Surely we test our mics before the ceremony starts..I always ask the priest to turn his on and then run both my packs to make sure that they are all on different channels...that should be on a checklist. I think I have only ever had two where I had issues..the first frequency clash made the Church PA sound like an alien ray gun and the second did the exact opposite where the Church PA was perfect but the groom's mic sounded like a machine gun.

I think nine times out of ten, decent and polite communication with the priest can often solve issues or even result in a compromise...I always attend the rehearsal (also do a clash check there so if the PA and my mics interfere I have lots of time to change frequencies) At a rehearsal there is also no real stress and no rush so you can get to know the priest and have him/her on your side.

Chris

Re: Priests That Won't Wear Mics - How do you Cope?
 

We don't have that here, would make preparation a lot easier.

Re: Priests That Won't Wear Mics - How do you Cope?
 

Hi Noa

That's strange..Churches here, especially Catholic, will insist on a rehearsal usually the Thursday before the Saturday wedding. It gives you a chance to meet (and make friends with the priest) especially if he/she is new and find out any no-go zones plus you have a chance to chat to and meet both families so when the wedding day arrives at least you know the parents and the bridal party instead of just meeting the bride!! Mainly, it's a chance to show the priest that you are a professional and respect his space!!

I wouldn't ever miss one but some outdoor civil ceremonies do give them a miss!!

Chris

Re: Priests That Won't Wear Mics - How do you Cope?
 

I know that there always is a meeting with the priest but that's only for the couple, nobody else will attend, it was like that when I first got married, already 25 years ago, and nothing seem to have changed since then. They will talk about the purpose of mariage, faith, text that will be read (the couple can supply their own text)but nothing about who can stand where, they don't even go into the church to look as the meeting is usually at the priests house or at church but in an office. I only get a copy on paper of what is being said during the ceremony by who because that's always written out in detail but I never read it, my only concern is when I get in the church is where to place my audio and my 2 camera's and once the ceremony starts it's just a matter of covering it. I can already film a Catholic ceremony with my eyes closed by now :)

Re: Priests That Won't Wear Mics - How do you Cope?
 

I can agree with that, and apologise for coming across too strongly. A discussion, rather than a bickering session, can be illuminating and informative. As one who has worked in churches for a very long time in many capacities, including musical and technical, and has had to deal with some very odd rulings concerning matters directly affecting the quality of my work, I can sympathise with the frustration of this rule which must appear completely insane when one is totally immersed in the production of a professional product. I once spent two days lighting a church for a concert video I had been asked to make, only to be told to switch off the lights just before it started.

Well at the time it wasn't to me, but now that you have clarified it I understand what you meant. I am happy to apologise for an apparent over-reaction to a misunderstanding. I have no wish to start thundering on about marriage in general as it is not relevant here and a quick route to excommunication - from dvinfo at least!


However, :-)
I really can't agree that there is no point in filming vows because your can't hear them.

A point to ponder is that it is quite common for many couples to speak their vows so quietly that hardly anyone in the congregation actually hears them. This does not make the ceremony pointless, because everyone knows what is being said and a video with indistinct audio would only reflect the experience of many who were actually there on the day. Not of course what one would set out to do.

In this situation, it would clearly not be your fault, but as a customer I would expect you to find a way of dealing with it. If there were no pictures of the vows/exchange of rings (ie you switched off the cameras) just because the priest prevented the audio being recorded, I would suggest that that would be unacceptable. It would be far from ideal, granted, but I can think of at least 3 ways to deal with it where you could be seen to be coping professionally with an apparently impossible situation. I've had a similar situation caused by an incredibly loud toddler screaming throughout a Baptism ceremony.

Fully agreed.

I suspect that some here will still not agree with me, but there we are.

Re: Priests That Won't Wear Mics - How do you Cope?
 

here in ireland in my experience we mostly have no problems, although i do remember years ago, I was a guest and not working, a very stern priest that the couple had invited to do their marriage, insisted on no flash photography. This unfortunate woman who either ignored or hadn't heard the rule stepped out into the aisle and took a shot obviously on full auto. The result was like Fire & Brimstone!!! we all thought he was going to abandon the ceremony - it was the most uncomfortable and depressing thing i was ever at in a church.
I'd be the same as Chris, the last wedding i covered I had attended the rehearsal and met with the priest there and indeed the morning of the wedding at the bride's house, we did sound checks etc during the rehearsal. That would be pretty standard here to meet up with the priest or the registrar and the wedding coordinator.
I've covered Communions for the schools and again i would attend their rehearsals and get to chat with the priest and find out the boundaries and rules if any.
i did have a problem once with a registry wedding where the registrar didn't want me recording the actual registrar due to Data Protection issues, so we just posed the signing after the official one was done.

So in this case the priest didn't want to wear a mic, I suppose you cant make him and that has to be accepted by the couple that his audio will be somewhat muted, i suppose one solution would be to strip out the priests muted audio during the vows and get a voice actor to interject during appropriate cutaways!

I guess bottom line is that you need to let the clients know if certain things are imposed that are outside your control, I do think it is essential to attend at any prior briefing/rehearsal or whatever to catch these situations.
Rob

Re: Priests That Won't Wear Mics - How do you Cope?
 

Hi Rob

We do have our lady priest at the Anglican Cathedral who tells the guests that NO photography or video is permitted by the guests at all..only the official video and photos. We are also not allowed in the aisle at all during the procession in and out (so you don't get the photog kneeling in front of the bridal party the whole time). The official photog is told in no uncertain terms if they use flash they are out on their ear!! She has actually stopped a wedding, I believe (not one of mine thankfully) to eject a photographer!!! She is as sweet as honey IF you obey her rules to the letter ..step out of line just one mm and she erupts...I have learnt to work with her and it pays dividends!!!

Chris

Re: Priests That Won't Wear Mics - How do you Cope?
 

Most registrars here in the UK have an obsession about no filming/photographing the actual signing of the register. Sometimes the reason given is that the register is Crown Copyright, sometimes filming/photographing allegedly contravenes the Data Protection Act & sometimes the reason given is that the bride & groom might make a mess of the register by waving the fountain pen about while looking at the camera. We just nod & do as we are told:-)

Re: Priests That Won't Wear Mics - How do you Cope?
 

Nigel, that's pretty well par for the course here in my region; registrars' rule is that the register is not filmed for the same mixture of reasons you have given.

I do as I do with any known restrictions - tell the couple at the very early stages. If I haven't worked a venue previously and don't know the rulings I tell them it is in their interest to speak with the vicar/registrar at the point they decide on having the day filmed to find out if there will be any limitations. The contract is between the couple and the officiant so I would expect them to make the first approach. I tell them that I'd be happy to discuss with the officiant to try to allay any concerns they may have. If problems are known about early in the planing there is a possibility of doing something about it.

For similar reasons as Chris I attend the rehearsal but if that's not possible I'd always call the vicar or registrar sometime before the day, as I do with photographers I've not worked with before.

My aim is to make the wedding day as stress free for me as can be. I don't like too many surprises or unexpected situations. I'd never turn up at a venue without having a good idea of what I'll be able to do and would have let my clients know in advance if I'll be working under prescribed restricted conditions.

Re: Priests That Won't Wear Mics - How do you Cope?
 

Hi George

I have never been asked not to film the actual signing here..both civil and Church weddings but I do have an idea that they circumvent the problem in a Church by pre-signing some documents at the rehearsal...I will often see brides and their future hubby doing paperwork with the priest and at the ceremony they just sign a certificate.

Yeah, I like to be organised and stress free too..photogs on the other hand seem to like to live on the edge and no show up at rehearsal and then do their best at the wedding to totally frustrate both the priest and the videographer.

Chris

Re: Priests That Won't Wear Mics - How do you Cope?
 

Chris, churches don't usually, in fact rarely, impose a no filming the register rule, but increasingly civil ceremony registrars will not allow any filming that might include the details on the register. The reasons they give are variations of those that Nigel mentioned, some will state that it's illegal to photograph/film the legal document for copyright reasons (!), yet others, even in the same district, will be more liberal.
This is even rarer but I have been told by the registrar in one large town here to turn off a second camera - he said that the official list of requirements that he gives to couples clearly states that he will allow only one camera to be positioned where he says. The couple either missed that or ignored it but either way they didn't tell me. Thankfully I rarely get asked to go there and most don't book me after I now tell them; they probably get someone who says they'll ignore his ruling, or shoot surreptitiously.

Re: Priests That Won't Wear Mics - How do you Cope?
 

I had this once too in a Catholic wedding. I agreed and told the priest I would leave the b-cam in place not running in case I had problems with my first camera. Switched off front red lamp, left it running anyway. Worked a treat. At later weddings I informed him I had 2 b-cams in place as backup (not running) and he was happy with that.

One day the fool will see my beautiful 3-cam coverage and blow his stack. Sucker.

Re: Priests That Won't Wear Mics - How do you Cope?
 

In my area (Thames Valley, London, and beyond) civil ceremonies are the majority and most of the officiants are female; so good luck trying to get them to routinely wear lavs and radio transmitters!

The arrival of good quality small form factor digital recorders and the ability to sync the output in post in seconds using Pluraleyes has changed everything.

You'd be very unlucky if you cannot get at least one Zoom H1 hidden close enough to pick up the vows whether it be a civil or church venue - though churches can be more challenging because usually there is more space separating the couple from the nearest hiding place.

Often, if there is a table separating the couple and the celebrant I just drop a Zoom H1 into the flower arrangement on the table. At yesterdays wedding there was a 4 stick candelabra decorated with vine on an adjacent table. I used a short articulating arm and mini clamp to hold an H1 hidden in the candelabra. Perfect.

The articulating arms are available cheap on Ebay, example:

7" inch Articulating Magic Arm for mounting HDMI Monitor LED lights Camera LF13 | eBay

That version comes with a removable hotshoe adapter. Its the 7" version. There are also longer 11" versions. And there are versions that come with the hotshoe adapter and a mini superclamp. If you already have the arms you can buy the clamps separately:

Articulating Magic Friction Arm Small Super Clamp For Dslr rig HDV-Z96 LED LIGHT | eBay

I recommend these clamps with the T-bar tightener as that gives you more room to set up in very confined situations such as when clamping to furniture or fixtures / window frames etc.

There are also various other heavier duty clamps including this from Delkin which works surprisingly well on windows and can easily take the weight of camcorders such as the TM900:


You can of course also use the various mini-tripods etc where appropriate.

H1's are so cheap its feasible to place several to cover not only where couples and celebrants should be but where they might stray to :- )

I'm also a user of Zoom H4n's but these are rather larger and more intrusive that their little brothers for no real gain in audio quality (they have greater functionality though).

Placing recorders near to but not on the participants cannot give you the crystal clear audio of a lav for obvious reasons. However it is probably more realistic of the guests experience as there is not such a huge difference between e.g. the sound of the groom speaking his vows and the ambient sound of hymn singing.

This method is also much quicker when setting up - something that matters a lot to me as I work alone and part of my USP is that the whole experience is very unintrusive.

Pete

Re: Priests That Won't Wear Mics - How do you Cope?
 

I have just bought a couple of Yamaha C24 digital recorders which are even smaller & more unobtrusive than the Zoom H1. The also come with a nifty clothes peg style clip that allows them to be attached to tables, floral decorations etc.

Re: Priests That Won't Wear Mics - How do you Cope?
 

Nigel, they look excellent other than they don't appear to have a tripod socket onboard. Is that the case? They'd still be a better choice than the H1 for dropping into a pocket but I wouldn't want to do without the flexibilty to use a variety of mounting clamps rather than just the one that the Yamaha comes with (whose jaws may well be too narrow to fit around many venue fixtures).

Just noticed as well that the pickup is wide and that is considered a virtue; think I prefer a narrower pickup especially on those occasions where a screaming toddler clips your audio :- )

I like the feature they have of the switchable mic in / line in. With the two variations of the Zoom I sometimes have to use a pad cable to reduce the input to the - mic only - socket if I'm taking a lead off of a DJs board or similar.

Pete

Re: Priests That Won't Wear Mics - How do you Cope?
 

They don't have a tripod mount & that clip that they come with is the only means of mounting them on anything. They are much better than the H1 for dropping in a pocket as they are so much slimmer & they work well with cheap lav mics that I bought from CPC. It's horses for courses as aside from several of the little Yamaha recorders I also have the choice of a couples of H1s & an H4N & a Tascam DR-100. You can never have too much audio even if it's just for backup.

Re: Priests That Won't Wear Mics - How do you Cope?
 

Hi, Katie,

Good post topic.

I generally (like Don B) mic the groom and the lectern. If the speakers on the side of the sanctuary are low enough, I'll put a mic on a stand close to one of them (which pics up everything nicely).

Nothing on the Priest himself. To me, this gets acceptable audio - and never heard anything but good feedback from the couples.

Re: Priests That Won't Wear Mics - How do you Cope?
 

Thanks all I ever do!!

One on the groom and one on the lectern..I think once I had to mic the priest as the groom refused to wear a mic so they arranged for the priest to wear it and he stood in close to the couple during vows.

For vows a groom mic is more than adequate!!

Chris

Re: Priests That Won't Wear Mics - How do you Cope?
 

I too mic the groom & put a Zoom H1 or Yamaha C24 digital recorder or two on lectern, altar ceremony table etc (you can never have too much audio). One tip that I picked up a while ago is to clip the lav mic quite low down on the groom's lapel & orient it upside down. This ensures a more even pick up from the bride & celebrant along with the groom's voice.