How much do you use your glidecam?
 

I was curious to find out from others how often you use your glidecam during a wedding shoot. I would think you would use it for bride and groom prep, reception, and maybe during the bride walking down the isle. I have a glidecam, monopod and tripod, and I am trying to figure out when I should use each one of them. During the ceremony I going to use my tripod for steady shots, but during and after the ceremony is where I was kinda curious about. Thanks for the advice in advance. I am trying to prepare myself for my first wedding coming up.

Re: How much do you use your glidecam?
 

I use my Glidecam a LOT. I have one camera permanently mounted & have the Glidecam beside me most of the time. I use it for all the shots where I want some movement or I need to follow the action.

Re: How much do you use your glidecam?
 

I almost always work with at least two shooters, and one person (not me) is basically on a Merlin the entire day. So, it effectively gets used as a smoother shoulder mount, if that makes sense.

Now, I don't think it's typical to use a steadicam so much, though I've noticed one or two people here who do something like it. Among other things, it's damn tiring, it can be awkward in confined spaces, and a vested system can be very fiddly. So if you look at a lot of the "cinematic" shorts of even the most well-known companies, they tend to cover prep just with monopod/slider/tripod.

I think most people tend to use steadicams sparingly. There are certain parts of the day when a steadicam is very handy -- processional/recessional, photoshoot, introductions at reception, first dance, farewell arch. Certain cultures also. For instance, if you're amongst a crowd (eg Indian wedding, Lebanese wedding), you want to raise your camera above the crowd to be able to see anything, then a Merlin/Blackbird might be the most stable way to do that.

Edit: Jeff, there's no "right" answer. If you want to use yours during prep, great! Use it during prep. If you don't want to use it for bride walking down aisle, don't use it (you'll make photographer much happier).

Re: How much do you use your glidecam?
 

Thanks alot for the info. Coming from news we do not use glidecams, so this wedding videography is a new beast for me. Would anyone be willing to let me see a long version copy of a wedding? I would send you money to send it in the mail. I have looked at my wedding video which was 13 years ago, and many things have seemed to change. Let me know. Thanks again.

Re: How much do you use your glidecam?
 

Same here, starting from the reception it's on standby all the time, before the reception it's just too much hassle to use as I"m moving between different locations but once that's not the case anymore the steadicam is set up for use.

Re: How much do you use your glidecam?
 

I do you mine for creative shots, but the place where I think my glidecam is most appreciated by the client is during crowd mingling. It can basically be sued as a 'guests'eye-view' as you move among, in and around crowds of people.

Theres no other method really for representing the guests so well, a pan from anywhere will simply get the back of peoples heads as much as faces.

Re: How much do you use your glidecam?
 

Absolutely. At a drinks reception I will do a few passes through the crowd with my Glidecam then return with my long lens on a monopod to 'snipe' individuals from a distance with that cool shallow DoF then spend time racking focus from one group to another.

Here is a highlights video from a wedding we shot a few weeks ago that makes extensive use of a 5D on a Glidecam. Like Adrian says I use it like a smoother shoulder mounted camera. Cinematic Wedding Video and Photography Norfolk London and throughout UK

Re: How much do you use your glidecam?
 

I use mine during the processional (if there's room, otherwise it's probably a slider instead), during the photoshoot, and some of the reception.

Most of the time I just use a slider and a monopod for the prep. Usually the rooms are too small for to do anything with the glidecam.

Re: How much do you use your glidecam?
 

I dont use mine a whole lot since all the shots are planned in advance and strategic. I dont want to use the power of the steadicam movement/energy on all the shots because you effectively lose that power if its in too many shots, just like the slider. I use to use it alot but I think you'll soon find out what type of shots you like on your videos at certain situations.

Re: How much do you use your glidecam?
 

NIgel, I don't want to critisize your work but I found those glidecam shots very unstable and wobbly, what type of glidecam do you use if I may ask?

Re: How much do you use your glidecam?
 

Glad someone else said it first :- ) I thought the same thing. I'm getting better results just using a camcorder with good built in image stabilization sitting on a retracted monopod held against my body. Every few weeks I almost buy a Glidecam or similar but then don't. I'd be interested to hear what Noa uses.

Not that wobble seems to matter. It seems to be everywhere in films and TV at present and done as a positive choice.

Once you put a dSLR on a stabilizer you really need to have a wide angle lens plus a small f-stop to give an extended depth of field (to minimise missed focus issues). But that then takes you into the territory of the camcorder/video look so why not use a small camcorder in the first place?

Also, the field of view of the human eye though disputed is roughly equivalent to 45mm on a full frame dSLR. I'm talking about the "in focus" view not the much wider peripheral view. So using a wide angle lens moving through crowds etc can appear quite unnatural ..... almost like a robot with an electronic sensor might see :- )

Pete

Re: How much do you use your glidecam?
 

I just posted below video in another thread but this was a test I did this morning with my new gh3 on a blackbird steadicam, the gh3 is too light and need to add more weight, like the battery grip, to be able to balance it a bit better but am happy with my first results so I can use it with a bit more confidence this Saturday.

I used a 14mm Samyang lens (28mm on a full frame camera) There are some extra shots attached at the end of the video but that was just some random stuff I shot yesterday evening just as test as well.

Re: How much do you use your glidecam?
 

That's smooth Noa! I've just bought that lens and might use it on my Merlin at tomorrow's wedding - I haven't had much chance to practice though! What aperture and focus distance did you have going on there?

You seem to have front to back sharpness but it looks as if it might have been fairly dim in there - how did you manage to get so sharp if you had a wide aperture?

Re: How much do you use your glidecam?
 

I think I was at f4 at 1600 iso which gives you enough dof. Below is some random footage from the 550d on the blackbird with the 14mm at a wedding, that's the fov I would like to have on the gh3, The wheight of my 550d is perfect to balance the blackbird and have a very light set-up and it enables me to get some better pan and tilt control.

password is test

Re: How much do you use your glidecam?
 

That's really nice stuff Noa! I was thinking of setting the focus around the 2M mark - I would like to work out the hyperfocal distance of this lens but I think the Metabones adapter (I'll be using it on a NEX VG-20) will skew the results.

What focus setting were you on for the wedding shots?

Pete

Re: How much do you use your glidecam?
 

If I"m following a person I focus on him first and then keep that distance during the shot and for the venue shot I focus halfway between me and the end of the room so I have everything more or less in focus.

Re: How much do you use your glidecam?
 

Noa, I've started putting my CX370 on my Glidecam simply because its a lot wider than my only prime lens for dslr. Having wide for stabiliser shots really helps the look and feel.

Off topic I know, but Noa, even when I manually set the CX370 to f1.8, it still seems to have a fairly wide DOF. Anything I'm doing wrong? Its hard to match it with my dslr footage when its so obviously camcorder footage with everything in focus.

Re: How much do you use your glidecam?
 

The cx730 has a small sensor which is why the dof is much wider, f1.8 on that camera is not comparable with f1.8 on a large sensor dslr.

Re: How much do you use your glidecam?
 

Noa, great shots with the blackbird. I have been practicing by walking around my house with my stabilizer. Trying to get as good as I can before I use it on my first wedding.

Re: How much do you use your glidecam?
 

It's a Glidecam HD2000.

I agree that several of the shots are not perfect & would have benefited from some stabilisation in post. However as I said before I tend to use the Glidecam as a "smoother shoulder mounted camera" so prefer to have the fluidity & natural movement that gives me even at the expense of less than perfect stability. The alternative would be either extra wobbly footage because it was hand held or less movement because it's shot from a monopod or tripod. I am also now pushing myself & always use a 24-28mm focal length on the 5D2 which is challenging but avoids the distortion of near objects or worse still people that you get using a very wide angle lens plus it is a much more natural POV than an ultra-wide.

Re: How much do you use your glidecam?
 

But actually you are not using the steadicam for what it was designed for, I have seen glidecam 2000 footage that looked the same and better then what I do with my blackbird so it's mainly a matter of balancing and using it right. Just look at below video which shows you could get very good results out of it.

Ofcourse if the current way of using it is intentional as a part of a shootingstyle then I can understand but I find it a shame not using this tool to it's full potential, it's like shooting with your 5d mark3 and only use up to 1600 iso while you know it shines at iso's well above that. Hope you don't take it personal as I do mean well, I was just curious why the footage was so unstable.

Re: How much do you use your glidecam?
 

I know perfectly well how to use a Steadicam have attended Tiffen workshops & actually own a Pilot although I rarely get the chance to use it. Overuse of that slightly slow-mo floaty smooth Steadicam style gets tired after a while just like if you include too many slider or rack focus shots. I want movement in the camera work to follow the action and prefer to have a more natural & lifelike look rather than dreamy floating. That's not to say that I don't sometimes use the Glidecam as an alternative to a dolly or slider

BTW There is a world of difference between flying a Glidecam around alone in some lovely countryside with the option of re-takes & filming a wedding with all that involves including dodging guests, rushing around making sure that you don't miss anything, trying to see your framing on the LCD in bright sunshine etc etc

Re: How much do you use your glidecam?
 

Just that you know, none of my shots in both videos in this thread where slowed down, also, I didn't want to imply that you don't know how to use a steadicam but if you are honest several steadicam shots in the video you linked to are very unstable and is something I would not associate with steadicam use.

I don't share that opinion, it's very rare I bump into a guest when flying in the venue during shots where you only get one chance to get it right., it can happen but I pretty much nail every shot I do like the first entrance, the first dance, the cake cutting etc, I also don't overuse my steadicam, it complements my tripod shots and I use it only if it adds something to the shot what I couldn't achieve from a tripod.

There is often lots of time to redo steadicam shots but those are usually shots where I use tilts as well or more complex moves, this can be when I shoot the venue when they are preparing the tables, or just to shoot the surroundings outside. I often redo steadicam moves to have a choice afterwards in the edit.

Like I said, I can understand if the unstable movement is an effect you want but it's only my opinion that this is not what a steadicam is designed for. It's main purpose is to take the shake out of the footage and to provide you with fluid movements.

Re: How much do you use your glidecam?
 

Here is another one I did during a wedding and after I placed it online the venue liked it so much they asked if they could share it on their site and facebookpage, I made a shorter version for them and to date it has, and still is, the most watched video on my site, the first minute is mainly steadicam with my 550d, there is also one shot where I follow the cake carriers, I can tell you there was virtually no room to pass between the tables and I had to lift my steadicam higher not to bump against people's heads.

I also noticed a bigger increase in bookings since I started using my steadicam more then 2 years ago (and also invested in getting better sound since then), I don't advertise but only use my website and mainly facebook gets me the most attention, most of my clients I meet tell me how much they like the steadicam shots which is something just a few of my competitors in Belgium use (I know, we are a few years behind to any other country here :) So for me it's definetely a tool that helps me promote and sell my videos.

Re: How much do you use your glidecam?
 

I have a Steadicam Merlin for use with my Sony VG20 and use it with either 16mm or 12mm lenses. I get it out occasionally at weddings but am always less than happy with the results. The camera is perfectly balanced with good drop time etc - exactly set up as in the manual/online guides and doesn't sway much but..... I cannot seem to get over the 'bob' movement as I walk - I'm sure it's a technique thing but I've practiced for hours on end and even though smoother than hand held - it still looks like you can see the camera is being held by someone walking - completely unlike some of the smooth gliding I've seen online. Also as a solo shooter I find I don't have much time for these shots as I still consider them 'experimental' and so my main concern is playing safe.

I keep looking for courses in the UK to no avail - It would be money well spent if I could find one! - Noa's outstanding samples though will spur me on to keep practicing :)

Pete

Re: How much do you use your glidecam?
 

Hi Pete

I'm not sure if you have a vest for your Merlin but a vest and at least a dual arm makes a huge difference. My very first sled (no vest and arm) was very bouncy and hard to keep smooth. However the recommended practice is to go up and down a nice long hallway with a "X" on the end wall and try to keep that in one place on your LCD. Having an LCD on your sled also helps otherwise you are trying to look at the camera LCD!

An often and useful tip is to walk around like a cat burglar ...allow your knees to take up any shock coming from your feet so walking with your knees bent also helps. When you can do a full 360 circle of the couple and the frame height of the video remains constant you know you are winning...it's all practice, practice, practice and plenty of it.

The EFP DVD from Tiffen that was shot as a series using analog cameras and 1" tape is still a valuable resource and you can order from them or find it on eBay .... it makes great viewing!!

Steadicam EFP DVD

Chris

Re: How much do you use your glidecam?
 

I've a HD 2000 and I've never been able to use it, i'm just hopeless at trying to balance it, even without a camera on it, it just seems to twirl incessantly.
yes I'd agree it's totally experimental, I couldn't deploy this at a live event!!

I think to counter the bobbing movement you need to adopt a different posture and walk, in another life i was in the military, and a technique for close quarter battle drill was to walk from the knees down, i.e. keep the upper body on the same axis of travel while aiming (no deviation from the target) so slightly crouched and smaller steps, from the knee down tend to negate the bobbing movement a good bit!

:)

Re: How much do you use your glidecam?
 

Hi Chris - No I wouldn't have time during a wedding shoot for a full vest/arm rig but I've been looking at Noa's work and it's great - he uses a Blackbird which is a similar design to the Merlin - gives me hope!

Re: How much do you use your glidecam?
 

Rob has the right idea yes and any decent sled is really easy to balance ..just take the time to set it up correctly on a docking stand and get it statically balanced first (I also mark the QR plate so I can slide the camera in and shoot) A couple of balance tips are : Do your static balance initially with the bottom stage weights heavier than needed and get it really dead vertical and dead horizontal. Then do a drop test and reduce the weights until horizontal thru to the bottom of the arc takes 2 or 3 seconds MAX! I work on 3 seconds. Then rebalance the sled again if required and do a dynamic test so you need to spin the sled slowly and make sure it doesn't get a speed wobble ...if it does you might need to swop weights front to back on the bottom sled to compensate for a not perfect gimbal .... A little time spent here means you can grab and shoot without fussing around with an un-balanced rig which is almost impossible to control.

I can start flying in around 30 seconds and that's with a full vest, dual arm and sled. The last time I balanced my rig was probably around February with the new EA-50's so any decent rig should be able to keep it's balance indefinitely. Just remember if you balance the camera with a big battery you cannot shoot later with a smaller one so make sure the cam is exactly as it was when you did the setup!

Chris

Re: How much do you use your glidecam?
 

I think it's my technique Chris - my cam is balanced nicely with a drop time of about 2 seconds (Tiffen recommend 1-2 seconds) - I use the same config every time - same battery size, no camera strap etc. I've followed the included DVD and looked at many online guides to get it just so - I can get it out of it's case and have it set up like you in about 30 seconds and it's really well balanced - it's just my technique - need to practice more :/

Re: How much do you use your glidecam?
 

Tiffen run an entry-level course a couple of times a year. It's the Bronze Workshop & covers Steadicams up to the Zephyr. It's the principals of balancing & operation that are important whether you are using a vest or just hand holding a Glidecam Merlin or Blackbird. The 2-day course costs about £250 which is a bargain & is a hell of a lot of fun & hard work in equal measure. Flysteadicam Workshops | Gold, Silver & Bronze Steadicam workshops held around the world or email robin.thwaites@tiffen.com

The Blackbird looks interesting although I have only ever seen photos. It has what are called "Antlers" by Steadicam operators. The concept was invented by Jerry Holway co-author of the fabuous "Steadicam Operators Handbook". The idea is to add some inertial mass to aid stability. AFAIK the Blackbird is the only stabiliser that comes ready equipped with "Antlers". There is another guy posting on DV INfo who has posted some good demos of real estate videos that he has done in Queensland with a walkthrough the house with a Blackbird & he is very complimentary about it too. http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/stabiliz...er-videos.html

Re: How much do you use your glidecam?
 

Many thanks Nigel - I've messed around for long enough - I need training from the experts on this one! bonus that the course is not expensive as well :) - Pete

Re: How much do you use your glidecam?
 

Peter, though I"m not a glidecam expert by any means I might give some tips on getting smoother movements based on my own experience. It has been said here to slightly bend through your knees when you walk, this will take out a large part of the bouncing movement, second is to hold your arm (elbow) in a 45deg angle away from your body so it acts as a real arm/vest on a pro steadicam to counteract any bouncing movements. Physically it will take it's toll on your body if you do longer runs but if you want a good smooth steadicam move those 2 techniques help a lot, that's at least what I experience and I think my videos show it helps.

If your steadicam sway in different directions while you walk it's not well balanced but if you see your walking steps in the video (up and down movement) you probably have your elbow against or too close to your body transferring your body motion toward the steadicam.

Re: How much do you use your glidecam?
 

I definitely see my walking steps Noa - I need to practice and more practice - BTW I will start to use my Samyang 14mm with my NEX-VG20 so will now need to spend a while re-balancing as the Samyang is heavier than the Sony Pancake - your movements are really good and have made me want to get this right!

Pete

Re: How much do you use your glidecam?
 

Be sure to buy the The Steadicam Operator's Handbook by Jerry Holway & Laurie Hayball http://www.amazon.co.uk/Steadicam®-O...rs+Handbook%22 It distills 30 years of experience from all the experts of the craft & is not only educational but is also a fascinating & entertaining read.

Re: How much do you use your glidecam?
 

Noa, you mentioned having a blackbird. Do you need an additional plate between the dslr and the blackbird because of how front (lens) heavy the dslr can get? I tried to fly with a 24-70mm zoom and it was way too heavy in the front to get the "center" of the camera correct on the supplied plate. I have ordered the Rokinon 24mm and I am hoping it can balance on the blackbird with the standard plate. The zoom lens was almost twice as heavy than the Rokinon, so that hopefully makes the difference. It is easier to balance with a pancake, but I couldn't find anything wider than 40mm.

Re: How much do you use your glidecam?
 

There is a cameramounting plate that attaches to your camera and which has several mounting holes to off set the camera, this then attaches to the stage of the steadicam and there you again can slide it for- or backward + you can microadjust the stage in 4 directions as well. I do think however that with long and heavy lenses there should be a support mounted on the lens so the balance point is moved further forward, not sure if there is any accesoire for attaching to the lens? I have not tried these type of lenses on the blackbird so can't comment on how they actually would balance.

Re: How much do you use your glidecam?
 

I use this one
Glide Gear DNA 5050 Professional Video Camera Stabilizer

Glide Gear DNA 5050 Professional Video Camera: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics
Had the nano was ok but this is better, I keep my hfg10 or hfm56 on the glide all the time at the reception mingling, grand entrance and the first dance, that's it serves its purpose...

Re: How much do you use your glidecam?
 

Figured I'd pipe in. I've been using my pilot for 6 plus years, I won't shoot a wedding without it. I've also used it on many other projects involving movement. Eventually you get to the point where you don't have to think about the balance, it's just an instinct, adjusting on the fly to angles and such, I remember when I first got it, I was all over the place with it, but after a lot of use, a few mods it worked out that I'm pretty proficient with it.

Rule is, practice makes perfect.........well pretty close anyway. :}

Re: How much do you use your glidecam?
 

I think it was Charles Papert here who is pretty close to a Steadicam Master with multi years of commercial movie experience who once commented about himself

"Every time I fly I suck a little bit less"

We still have a long way to go if the bar is that high, BUT it does get better with each shoot so just put in the hours and you can only improve. My rig goes with me to every single wedding and I would be lost without it too. Once you have sorta grasped the basics and can produce watchable footage it's hard not to want to shoot everything on the rig!

You just cannot emulate a shot of a limo arriving and smooth movement from the limo driver exiting, around the back and up to the girls getting out. I cherish mine!!

Chris