USB delivery instead of DVDs?
 

I'm really tempted to look into this properly.

A friend of mine who is far superior has recently switched to USB delivery after consulting clients and they all bar one were happy to take USB.

Some of the points worth thinking about are:

- Modern TVs have USB ports (if you provide appropriate formats)
- DVD players are less common in general but are also dropping of PCs and laptops. No longer standard.
- Movie watching is also steering away from physical disc thanks to Netflix, Lovefilm, Apple TV etc...
- They look eye catching (until they become the standard in a few years)

Here is an article about it, albeit from a photographers POV.

Why I Ditched DVDs - Custom USB Flash Drives for PhotographersBusiness of AWESOME

Thoughts?

I've just bought a fair bulk of Tin DVD cases, so I'll have to use them up before I decide!



P.S. This is the best site I've found. Packaging options too. UK sources seem lesser in quality.

Re: USB delivery instead of DVDs?
 

Hi Clive

There was a lengthy discussion on this a short time ago and a lot of mixed opinions!

I love the idea that I can render my clips in at least 1280x720 (some HD TV's don't actually support 1920x1080!) My 33" flat screen doesn't !!

I seem to remember that the biggest issue seemed to be not the ability to play the files (like Grandma's CRT TV and player) but the simple fact that the physical package of a dual DVD set of disks appears to be better value to the bride than a tiny USB drive.

I tested the waters here by offering a FREE USB drive to brides and to my amazement no-one was interested!! They still wanted DVD's ... maybe they want something they are familiar with that they know that works?? I have no idea ... I think there was a simple response from someone else regarding online distribution.

Is there a simple answer?? What do you do if the couple's TV doesn't have a USB input??? ... things like IPads also don't come standard with a USB slot ..you have to buy an expensive adapter from Apple!!

You just might have to also supply every couple with a media player too so they can effectively plug into any device including a TV with only a composite input ...Starts to get messy after that.

If there is a simple answer that would keep all brides happy I would love to hear it!!

Chris

Re: USB delivery instead of DVDs?
 

What's the shelf life of a USB compared to DVD?

Re: USB delivery instead of DVDs?
 

Not too sure actually!

But regardless of shelf life, the client can easily make various backups on home PCs and online storage with USB.

DVD ripping is a lot less well known how to do.

Re: USB delivery instead of DVDs?
 

I've offered USB drive delivery as an alternative or addition for the last 2 years, but like Chris, Nobody has taken me up on it, except for a 3D wedding that I filmed.

I prefer the quality and convenience of USB or SD card over dvd, but so far the clients just don't seem to like it them. It might be that they relate a dvd to a commercial dvd in the shops and feel they are getting something more substantial.

Roger

Re: USB delivery instead of DVDs?
 

I've thought about this off an on for so many years that's passed me by, but I could never get past the fact that there wouldn't be chapters to jump forward. Or ... maybe there's a way to do it and I never found the answer.

Weddings have since passed me by, but I still continue to do some short projects where maybe the USB would be a nice option.

Re: USB delivery instead of DVDs?
 

I bought a bunch of 4gb usb drives to deliver 720p AppleTV versions of the clients film (as well as DVD and Blu-ray copies). There is definitely some in that a disc version has a case, inlay, artwork etc. A USB drive is just a small unidentifiable plastic thing (unless you spend money on the custom engraved ones)

For me, a USB drive might as well be a download link for the client. I've just modified my documentation as such. Seeing as I wont be limited to 4gb now I may encode them at a higher bitrate and \ or 1080p.

Re: USB delivery instead of DVDs?
 

What the client wants is a video file that they can play on their computer, phone, tablet, TV etc How it is delivered is irrelevant really. I too don't think much of a USB device (they can also be erased of course). Instead of the USB device we deliver HD files as .AVI or .MP4 burned to a DVD & presented in a disc case just like the DVD or Blu-ray but clearly marked although many disc players will in fact play raw video files ina variety of formats e.g. DIVX, AVI etc

Re: USB delivery instead of DVDs?
 

It has been my dream for clients to stop asking for DVDs and move to USBs for a while...unfortunately it's just a dream and DVDs will likely remain the status-quo for awhile....

Re: USB delivery instead of DVDs?
 

MP4 files on a DVD is probably still a more viable option and means that people wanting an HD version can at least pop it into their computer and play the video.

You can of course name the file with a little bit of forethought too .. like 0001Bridalprep.mp4 and 0002ChruchArrival.mp4 so even a non technical bride can figure out which files to play if you want to break the entire wedding up ..I do that anyway, even on a DVD so I don't need to rely on chapters.

A DVD in a smart case still "looks" like better value to the bride rather than a tiny USB, even if it is engraved or silkscreened ... it's physically a more "valuable" end product.

The other thing that always concerns me is the fact that most brides will have a laptop or notebook with tiny little speakers which isn't going to make your audio sound very good, whereas a big screen TV is far more likely to be hooked up to a home theatre system in the living room and audio will be far more natural.

As much as USB drives sound like a good idea, for me they are sadly still an optional extra rather than the final end product.

Chris

Re: USB delivery instead of DVDs?
 

USB sticks in batches large enough to cope with the biggest likely MP4 file are still relatively expensive to personalise and prohibitively expensive to personalise to client level. Then you need to personalise a larger external case as well. Plus they do not have a great record for reliability. So I've been sticking with MP4's burned to disc- dual layer disc if needs be. Overseas clients get delivery by download, but the upload times are so long here that its not really viable for volume work even if it were acceptable to most clients.

For those who supply MP4's for playback on TVs: how do you get around the big difference in the display ability between TVs and decent computer screens? If I supply an MP4 optimised for playback on a computer or Ipad etc n.b. something with a greater dynamic range than TVs, it will be too contrasty on a TV. If I shift its range as if it were to be a DVD then the MP4 will look great on a TV but washed out on a computer. I could encourage the clients to change the display settings on one or other but I doubt they're going to do that.

Pete

Re: USB delivery instead of DVDs?
 

I am primarily a photographer, but offer two rather basic video options. I already have USB drives (4 Gig) that I use to deliver their wedding photos. I purchased some larger ones (16 gig) so I would have room for both the video and the photos. I find it is much easier for me to put files on a flash drive. DVD takes time to make and print. I stopped doing DVD as my primary delivery. I now charge $50 per disc additional if they also want DVD's.

When I explain it most prefer the idea of being able to watch it on their phones, computers and tablets.

Re: USB delivery instead of DVDs?
 

I am still offering DVD/Bluray, as well as digital delivery (USB thumbdrive) as option. I still want my brides be just sit back relax and enjoy their wedding film on a big screen TV. It's also easy for them to send to grandma.

Re: USB delivery instead of DVDs?
 

USB sticks can be unbelievably unreliable. These are not permanent storage devices by any means. I know a supplier of USB memory sticks fairly well and a candid discussion revealed that more than 20% of them die in their warranty period.

My very first (26MB) stick from > 10 years ago still works perfectly, but most of the sticks I've bought in the last 5 years either won't read or won't write.

OTOH, if they don't store their DVDs correctly then they can also have a shorter life than many expect.

Re: USB delivery instead of DVDs?
 

You will actually have to force them if you want your dream. Stop offering it as a standard item and the charge more if they want it.

My last event I quoted a price based on electronic (download) only. If they wanted USB it was +£50. If they wanted DVD it was +£150. Blu-ray was +£225. Guess which they opted for? Yup, download only.

They were also very happy because they had it within hours rather than days of us completing the edit.

Re: USB delivery instead of DVDs?
 

Everyone makes good points, but ultimately, I think we all agree that DVDs are going to become the new VHS soon enough, maybe within the decade.

With digital files, and standard bundled PC software, most people would be able to make themselves a dvd if they wished.

But someday wanting to rip a dvd when PC's are no longer supplied with DVD-ROM drives, will probably mean going to a specialist who can make a quick buck out of it.

Seriously, look at Lovefilm, Netflix, Apple TV, and a lot of software being electronically downloaded. I'd say its a safe bet, if we don't get off the DVD train now of our own free will, we will be forced off it, and sooner than you might think.

Re: USB delivery instead of DVDs?
 

The bottom line, whether we like it or not is that while brides do still have DVD players and DVD's are available then IF the bride chooses that form of delivery then we have to be sensible and give the client what she asks for. When we buy a car, the salesman doesn't say "I'll choose the colour " he says "What colour would you like"

Despite the fact that USB might be more convenient for us as authors, the client's choice is still a priority!

I wouldn't like to lose a booking purely because I'm too stubborn to offer DVD's and only supply USB

Chris

Re: USB delivery instead of DVDs?
 

The trouble is that there is not really a customer attractive alternative to dvd. It has been around a long time, younger people have grown up and feel comfortable with it, it's user friendly and even an imbecile can slot one in a player and view it. Best of all it's yours!

USB is a bit of an unknown quantity from a reliability and durability point of view, it is not physically attractive, and can't be personalised in the same way or as easily as a dvd.The same with SD cards.

Downloads are the least attractive to me. Film downloads etc are taking off at a rapid pace, but a large proportion of the population are unable to download those sort of files due to poor internet speeds or non smart tvs. There is also the problem of uploading in the first place. I can't imagine being able to upload a 90 minute+ full HD file from my location in the forseeable future and many other producers must be in the same situation. I have 2000 weddings archived, will I have to pay someone to host my future uploaded weddings for years to come so that a past client will be able to access it, or will the client have to pay for that after paying a lot of money to have it filmed in the first place. What happens when the client visits Aunty Mary in Back of Beyondia where there is no internet connection. What happens when the servers crash and there is no access to the video that the client wants to watch. Lets also not forget the restrictions on data downloads that most people have. No I can't see downloads as a main form of wedding delivery for many years to come.

Those that like to collect and watch movies, often have large collections of dvds which they treasure and I can't see people wanting to have everything stored online, including their wedding video. Until there is a collectible alternative to the dvd, I can see the question of how to supply and store being around for a while.

Roger

Re: USB delivery instead of DVDs?
 

Hey Roger

Surely from a business point of view it would be unwise to limit the customer options anyway so they suit yourself better?? That's my reasoning .... Imagine going to dinner and being told your steak will be mediun rare ..take it or leave it!! Purely for good business practice you need to offer the easiest option to brides as few are tech related anyway ..they just want to watch their wedding!

By all means offer alternative formats but I think it would be silly to withdraw specified media just because an alternative is easier for you!! A bride who is given options is more likely to book you when she knows she can have a choice of DVD, USB, BD or online delivery and not just one method.

Chris

Re: USB delivery instead of DVDs?
 

This may be more of a problem for a documentary style shooter, since cinematic weddings tend to be quite a bit shorter. As an idea, you can always just guarantee online availability for x amount of days. After that point it would be archived the exact same way you have it archived now. That way you're not saving 2000 weddings online. Roger, I know you don't put clips online (or at least show them) so this may not work for you, but I think a lot of people already put up cinematic/highlight films anyway so the uploading time wouldn't be a huge deal.

This is interesting!

Re: USB delivery instead of DVDs?
 

Chris - I do offer alternatives to clients, everything from usb to sd card even vhs if they really wanted it, but there is no doubt that the most asked for in almost every case is dvd.

Daniel - I uploaded an 80 mb 4 minute clip to dropbox for a commercial client today and it took 52 minutes, so that is the problem I am up against. I have no doubt if I was in the middle of London it would be a lot quicker, but I am not and never will be.

Roger

Re: USB delivery instead of DVDs?
 

Good point Roger. Living in a larger area I often forget about the speed of uploads. It would be a very long process to get an hour plus uploaded.

Re: USB delivery instead of DVDs?
 

Dropbox has a very slow upload speed even if you have a fast connection, the upload is slow. Google Drive is the same way, very slow to upload. I find that it takes many hours to upload a full video, but it works in the background and does not slow my computer down noticeably. If I shut down the computer, it reconnects when I start back up and continues it's upload automatically. Just accept that it is a background task and move on with other work. If you don't want it running while you are working, you could do the upload overnight.

Re: USB delivery instead of DVDs?
 

In Dropbox app preferences you can choose not to limit the upload speed. Still most ISP only talks about downstream speed but never mentioned upstread speed. They are always much slower. It has nothing do with Dropbox or Google drive in such case.

Re: USB delivery instead of DVDs?
 

I guess I'm lucky. We uploaded a 56 minute film to vimeo and it took around 39 minutes :)

Re: USB delivery instead of DVDs?
 

The thing is that in my particular situation, the client was only 10 miles away and in the time it took to convert the file, upload it and the client to download, I could have written it to a dvd, driven over with it, viewed it, discussed changes and got back to continue working on it.

I can see the advantages in many scenarios of uploading files, but there are still too many serious limitations to completely go over to an online delivery in my opinion.

Roger

Re: USB delivery instead of DVDs?
 

That's no comparison at all. Dragging & dropping a file into your Dropbox folder takes seconds of your time & costs nothing. Why care about how long it takes to upload provided it's within reason? I just checked that the most recent wedding highlights that I uploaded was 131MB which would have been under 1.5 hours with your connection. Provided that the upload doesn't take longer than overnight say 10-12 hours then delivery online is perfectly feasible. However full resolution Blu-ray at 20+GB is still not viable.

Re: USB delivery instead of DVDs?
 

True, but we are getting there. I've delivered some full HD events via online delivery where there was around 11GB in total. That took a few hours but happened while I was asleep in bed and was all there ready to go when I got up.

Speeds are definitely improving. My son now has 12mb 'upload' (120mb download) and my son-in-law allegedly has 18mb upload, so it won't be too long before uploading 25GB is viable for many more people.

In many other countries, upload speeds are even faster, so while the UK is lagging behind in upload speeds, for many other countries online delivery is definitely something that's becoming viable.

Re: USB delivery instead of DVDs?
 

I think that it is relative to the circumstances Nigel. In this particular case, once the client had viewed the upload, they still required me to have a meeting to discuss changes and look at some different filming areas. I could have done that all in one trip without having to start working on a different project while waiting for them to get back to me. When working on a complex commercial project, I find it far easier and efficient to continue working on it rather than coming back to it at another time and having to get into the zone again.

As I said before, I can see upload advantages in some instances, but with many areas of upload being slow, we still have a long way to go. Although as you correctly say, you can often get on and work on something else, in my case, I could work on another couple of short projects to upload or want to upgrade my website and find that I am bogged down with an upload queue of possibly many hpurs, when I need quick access.

The internet is great but doesn't hold all the answers yet.

Roger

Re: USB delivery instead of DVDs?
 

One thing that seriously bothers me about upload/download wedding delivery is this. At the moment, the client pays a considerable sum of money to me to have their wedding videoed. They then receive a dvd with the finished work on it and the deal is complete. I have filmed it, edited and delivered the end product to them.

If the end product is uploaded however, I never actually deliver a finished product to the client. I pay a third party, my ISP, to upload the wedding to the storage facility of a fourth party, whoever I have chosen to host it. I will also be paying them for the service. The ability of my client being able to receive the download is also in the hands of a fifth party, their ISP who they also pay to be able to download it. The client then downloads it onto the storage device of their choice, or simply streams it to view.

There are a number of potential areas of error here that may lead the client to be dissatisfied and over which I have no control:-
1) My ISP may not be able to supply me with an adequate service for upload due to poor signal, a breakdown in their service, maintenance on their servers or a failure of service.
2) I have no control over potential failures or errors with my file hosting service.
3) My client may have difficulties with their ISP preventing them for being able to access their wedding files.
4) I have no control over how my client saves or views their wedding video which could lead to future problems that reflect badly on their appraisal of my service.
5) I have no control over the costs or access now or in the future over any of the intermediaries in the chain, either for me or my client.

As the client is going to view the video that they have paid for at some point, either regularly or occasionally, the safest and most reliable method of delivery, is and always will be, directly to the client in a form that they can immediately view. It may be convenient to have online access as a second string method, but I can never see it as a suitable substitute for a hard copy direct delivery to the client on some form, be it disc, stick or card.

Downloading films, music and games is often quoted as an example of the.way things are going, but online downloading merely gives you access to a widely sold product in a different form. A wedding video is something that the client has paid for you to film, edit and produce and cannot be viewed in the same way as an item for public sale and distribution.

Roger

Re: USB delivery instead of DVDs?
 

Roger, I totally respect your point of view. It's valid. But as with everything else, its not the only valid way to think about things.

If your ISP is unreliable, as happens with mine from time to time then you can delay uploading until you have good service again. It's no different to mailing a DVD knowing that the post office (who is an intermediary you didn't mention) could have delays or even worse, lose it. Not everyone lives 10 minutes from me, nor do they all want me personally delivering their DVDs either. Often we get commissions from the other end of the country and there is no way I am delivering them by hand!

If your server doesn't have the space, you could change server providers, and it's still likely to be cheaper per month than producing a single set of DVDs for delivery.

If your client doesn't have the bandwidth to download it they still have the option of a USB stick or DVD, or Blu-ray if they wish, it's just not a no-cost option from me any more.

I would not totally remove those options for some time to come, but they cost money to buy/make/send, not to mention the time it takes to transcode to MPEG2, create the menus, author the disc, 'test' the disc once made (I've had a few issues over the years that I've gone back and corrected), and then do what ever you do to create the inlay, print it, cut it, insert it, place in the wrappers etc etc. Oh, and then the cost of a jiffy bag plus postage, or in your case time & mileage for delivery.

While the raw costs aren't huge, they do add up over the year, and the time spent making DVDs certainly adds up.

So, I'm not advocating that everyone moves to online delivery, just like I'm not advocating that everyone moves to Blu-ray or to USB stick. What I am saying is that I now offer my clients a variety of delivery options, the cheapest of which is the HD files as a download only. After that they can choose USB or DVD or Blu-ray if they wish, but at additional cost. So far people seem to like either for download only or for download + DVD.

In terms of having physical media, anyone buying regular recordable media is kidding themselves if they think clients are guaranteed to be able to play those on their 25th wedding anniversary. Even if they do still have a DVD player in the loft, what guarantees are you giving that the discs will actually still be playable? The disc manufacturers certainly aren't giving those guarantees (unless you are buying the expensive gold 100 year archive versions).

While I agree that people could download the files and not back them up, in the end this is their responsibility, just like them not losing the DVD, or relying on the DVD being playable in 25 years when in fact it's likely not. Within reason I'm archiving them all indefinitely, so just like a client finding their DVD doesn't play, they can come back and ask me for an additional download, at some fee for retrieving from the archive and re-uploading again, of course ;)

Of course, anyone with Windows Movie Maker or iDVD and DVD recorder can make their own playable DVDs from the HD files if they wish, though as others have said, DVD drives are fast disappearing even from many computers.

What the download option does do, which I agree is a negative, is it has the potential to eliminate follow on re-orders for DVDs, although only today someone with a download + DVD package came back to order more DVDs for the bridesmaids etc, so it doesn't eliminate it altogether.

Re: USB delivery instead of DVDs?
 

Dave, part of my service is to deliver the finished dvd (or alternative) personally. I send extra copies by post, but I consider that a follow on to the main service. I occasionally have a long distance production, when I would always arrange in advance that personal delivery would be impractical and delivery is then by recorded delivery or courier. At least I know that if it gets lost or damaged, I can very quickly make and send another from the master, rather than hours of uploading again if there is an upload failure. Your other point of dvds not being playable in 25 years time is probably quite right, but formats are quite easily convertible to the next one that comes along. The same argument could probably be applied to file formats that are stored on hard drives in a few years time, but neither are any cause for concern as far as I am concerned. I would rather that my clients had something on hard copy that I have supplied them with though, rather than something on some vague distant server.

You are obviously happy and confident with the way that you deliver as am I, so I would in no way wish to try to influence your choice or condemn it, although this discussion is an interesting and informative one on choices. My experiences with uploads and downloads over the years have frequently been extremely frustrating, but that is also partly due to the rural locations that I choose to live and work in. We all choose what works best for us, but it is always useful for everyone to hear and consider different views.

Roger

Re: USB delivery instead of DVDs?
 

This is true, but DVDs are stuck in standard definition. Can you even buy a standard definition TV today? Converting a DVD to some other format is always going to be SD, which (IMO) is going to look terrible when upscaled in the future to 4K and 8K. I'm totally disappointed every time I make a DVD after editing clean 1080p!

Yes, file formats will come and go but every video file I have from the early 90s still plays now. No reason to think files of today won't play in another 25 years time.

Out of interest, when you deliver DVDs is that all they get or do they also get the HD version some other way?

Re: USB delivery instead of DVDs?
 

I am also disappointed with the quality of dvd compared with what I see at the editing stage. My clients are always offered the option of USB, SD card and Bluray, but they always seem to want the dvd as the whole family can play it. I am constantly amazed by the number of people who think that because they have an HD TV that everything they see on it is in HD. I do archive the HD master though so that they could come back at a later date if they want an upgrade.

Roger

Re: USB delivery instead of DVDs?
 

Hey Roger

Done correctly, a wedding on DVD doesn't look too bad at all upscaled .. I have been to clients where they have played the DVD and I have been pleasantly surprised and the end result!

You have to remember that you are looking at technical quality AND have the raw footage to compare the DVD against. The bride just wants to see all the pretty dresses and herself and she has no worries about IQ ....keep the footage in focus and the bridesmaid's dresses the correct colour and she will be happy!!

I constantly have to remind myself that brides are not tech heads and pixel peepers like me and very few can actually see the difference (or appreciate ) between SD and HD !! I did survey on a bridal forum a while back and most brides admitted that they couldn't tell the difference (but hubby could) and really they couldn't care anyway ...after those results I stopped beating myself up over quality!

Chris

Re: USB delivery instead of DVDs?
 

You are quite right of course Chris. I just got back from a wedding show today and had five separate comments from visitors on how clear and sharp my video was. I was running from a dvd and two people also remarked on how nice my HD video looked. It's so easy to forget that so much of what potential clients see on their HD tvs is nowhere near HD and good quality upscaled dvd can look very good.

Roger

Re: USB delivery instead of DVDs?
 

Honestly, there are tons of options for physical and digital video delivery to your clients. This article outlines many of them: https://valoso.com/blog/deliver-client-video-files/ There's DVD, flash drive, file sharing websites, file sharing apps, cloud storage services, FTP servers, torrents, and more.

DVDs and flash drives are pretty similar; they're the main physical delivery forms. I agree that video technology may be moving more toward flash drives, but DVD is still a secure and traditional option. It all depends on your business!

Re: USB delivery instead of DVDs?
 

I am still offering DVD and BluRay as add on together with USB and Online as standard. But now, I will be pushing my HDMI dongle to playback wedding film on ANY television.

Recently, a colleague is filming a celebrity wedding. They want to distribute the wedding film but don't want people to own the file that they can upload everywhere. Now they will be ordering the HDMI dongle from me. After the file is copied to the internal storage of the dongle, I can disabled the USB mass storage and file transfer option. In that case, guests can only watch the film on TV only. They won't be able to have access the file content inside. They might be ordering 200 of my TB Dongle :D

Re: USB delivery instead of DVDs?
 

I imagine until TVs use a universal file type, DVD will be here. I have two Samsung tvs, one will play an mp4 file I've made, and the other won't. So even a single TV manufacture has tvs that are in different stages of ability for different file types.

I'm hoping personally for an online 'garage' for clients videos where they can download or sale it themselves. Or we can sale it as well.

The other option of course is putting it on the client's cell phone vs. a usb highlight.

Re: USB delivery instead of DVDs?
 

Decoding videos such as mp4, TV manufacturers need to pay royalty to the organization such as MPEG LA (mpegla.com). To reduce cost, certain models even from the same manufacturer won't play videos.

I bought a new TV at bestbuy just 3 months ago. The INPUT selection screen clearly says the USB port is for photos only.

You can use Vimeo some what in a way your clients can play online, download video file. or use their On Demand feature to collect revenue per view.